81% of Christians think Christianity is following rules in the bible

[Grace777x70]

I read this quote from the George Barna Research Group and it hit me how far we have come the true gospel of the grace of Christ.

This survey essentially said that 81% of Christians believe that Christianity is nothing more then going through the bible and finding a bunch of rules listed in the bible and trying our best to actually live by them.

How did we water down the true gospel of an exchanged life in Christ and learning to live by the life of Another in us now because we have died with Christ ( our old man was crucified with Him ) and have been raised up with Him to newness of life - how did it become so warped to reduce it down to the keeping of rules?

We are to live by the life of Christ in us - not by the keeping of rules. Jesus died "for" us so that He could live "in" us and that He could live "through" us.

This brand of religion is no different then buddhaism or any other good moral living religion.

Here is the link.

https://www.barna.org/barna-update/...ers-a-year-in-review-perspective#.VzhQsSfmqdI

What are other's thoughts on why the gospel has been watered down to this religious rule-keeping instead of living from an exchanged life in and through us that is ours because of our union with Christ - a new creation in Him?

 

[Markum1972]

Awesome post.

I like your comments about this in another thread. I think it simple to put it like this...

Works cannot earn salvation.
Faith, which produces works, inherits salvation.

Maybe a better way to word that, but was just looking for a simplified way of saying.

Thoughts?

 

[Grace777x70]

Awesome post.

I like your comments about this in another thread. I think it simple to put it like this...

Works cannot earn salvation.
Faith, which produces works, inherits salvation.

Maybe a better way to word that, but was just looking for a simplified way of saying.

Thoughts?

I agree with your statement here. Works is a fruit of salvation - not the root. It does not produce salvation as in being righteous or maintain righteousness so that we can go to be with the Lord when we die.

Sometimes the meaning of terms can throw us off too. Salvation/saved is talked about in the NT is 2 ways IMO.

Salvation/saved in Greek means to be make well, deliverance, wholeness, keep safe.


1) is that we have eternal salvation in Christ ( as in going to heaven to be with the Lord when we die) because we believe and have been sealed with the Holy Spirit as Paul and so many others wrote about - the Lord Jesus Himself notwithstanding.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

2) Then there is salvation here in this world as we learn to live by the spirit within and not our flesh. Salvation/saved in Greek means to be make well, deliverance, wholeness, keep safe.

Romans 8:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you willlive.

Behavior matters in how we live here in this earth now and determines the quality of life that we experience from us being in Christ.

 

[Markum1972]

I agree with your statement here. Works is a fruit of salvation - not the root. It does not produce salvation as in being righteous or maintain righteousness so that we can go to be with the Lord when we die.

Sometimes the meaning of terms can throw us off too. Salvation/saved is talked about in the NT is 2 ways IMO.

1) is that we have eternal salvation in Christ ( as in going to heaven to be with the Lord when we die) because we believe and have been sealed with the Holy Spirit as Paul and so many others wrote about - the Lord Jesus Himself notwithstanding.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

2) Then there is salvation here in this world as we learn to live by the spirit within and not our flesh. Salvation/saved in Greek means to be make well, deliverance, wholeness, safe.

Romans 8:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you willlive.

Behavior matters in how we live here in this earth now and determines the quality of life that we experience from us being in Christ.

Ok.. wow! This is awesome. You are the first person I have heard say this. I was talking to my wife about this very thing a number of times but was a bit hesitant cause I had never heard anyone else discuss it.

I agree 100%. I have noted that the scriptures that talk about salvation not only can be applied to spiritual eternity, but... guess I should say "temporary" salvation of the flesh (not meaning carnality) whether it be from sickness, disease, destruction, or even premature death.

I was noticing that there are a lot of them that really will help for enduring the great tribulation as well. Whether one believes in pre-trib rapture or not, there will be those here that need the instruction.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I read this quote from the George Barna Research Group and it hit me how far we have come the true gospel of the grace of Christ.

This survey essentially said that 81% of Christians believe that Christianity is nothing more then going through the bible and finding a bunch of rules listed in the bible and trying our best to actually live by them.

How did we water down the true gospel of an exchanged life in Christ and learning to live by the life of Another in us now because we have died with Christ ( our old man was crucified with Him ) and have been raised up with Him to newness of life - how did it become so warped to reduce it down to the keeping of rules?

We are to live by the life of Christ in us - not by the keeping of rules. Jesus died "for" us so that He could live "in" us and that He could live "through" us.

This brand of religion is no different then buddhaism or any other good moral living religion.

Here is the link.

https://www.barna.org/barna-update/...ers-a-year-in-review-perspective#.VzhQsSfmqdI

What are other's thoughts on why the gospel has been watered down to this religious rule-keeping instead of living from an exchanged life in and through us that is ours because of our union with Christ - a new creation in Him?

Incredible isn't it? It's a caricature of Christianity. The same caricature of Christianity that most in the world think Christianity is. It's thinking that it's about being a good boy or girl or a bad boy or girl. That if the good outweighs the bad in our lives, then God will not only accept us, but He will have to accept us. Because it’s only fair, and a good God could do no less. That's not Christianity, but it is what Christian religion has helped to perpetuate as being Christianity.

 

[Grace777x70]

Ok.. wow! This is awesome. You are the first person I have heard say this. I was talking to my wife about this very thing a number of times but was a bit hesitant cause I had never heard anyone else discuss it.

I agree 100%. I have noted that the scriptures that talk about salvation not only can be applied to spiritual eternity, but... guess I should say "temporary" salvation of the flesh (not meaning carnality) whether it be from sickness, disease, destruction, or even premature death.

I was noticing that there are a lot of them that really will help for enduring the great tribulation as well. Whether one believes in pre-trib rapture or not, there will be those here that need the instruction.

Well said....

If we could define terms that may stop a lot of the bickering and mis-understanding that can go on. And people are allowed to agree to disagree on things as well.........that is not a bad thing...we are all at different places in our lives in the Lord.

The understanding of the differences between the salvation that is in us because of our union with Chris and the saving of our souls here on this earth are related and yet have 2 different meanings too and applications. C

Confuse the 2 and we start to develop a works-based mindset for "obtaining" and "maintaining" righteousness by doing good deeds and we end up watering down the gospel and the great salvation that is in Christ as we lived from an exchanged life. His life in us.

 

[Grace777x70]

Incredible isn't it? It's a caricature of Christianity. The same caricature of Christianity that most in the world think Christianity is. It's thinking that it's about being a good boy or girl or a bad boy or girl. That if the good outweighs the bad in our lives, then God will not only accept us, but He will have to accept us. Because it’s only fair, and a good God could do no less. That's not Christianity, but it is what Christian religion has helped to perpetuate as being Christianity.

I agree ....it's no wonder people reject things - it is not the real gospel of Christ they hearing......they hear..keep these rules..they are rebelling against that - and not necessarily Christ. Only God knows the difference of what is in their hearts.

What is the answer to this in your opinion?

 

[thepsalmist]

MATT 7:13-14
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.


The old covenant between God and His people (Israel) WAS all about following laws. God established it to show humanity how futile that system truly was for salvation - for we would always fall short of keeping all the laws all the time.


The new covenant was established by Christ's sacrifice on the cross, wherein He bore our sins. All who believe in this new gate, and road, to salvation (Christ) are clothed in His righteous blood, reborn and sealed with the Holy Spirit as a token of adoption. It is a free gift.


1) A NEW WAY OF THINKING
I think what happens sometimes is that after living for years under the notion of works that it is a hard transition for some to simply accept the gift of grace. As children of this world we are raised with the upbringing that says "be good, follow the rules and you will be rewarded". We often experience the way of the world before the way of God and so there is a putting off of our old way of thinking before we can fully accept the new way of thinking. LUKE 5:39 And no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for they say, ‘The old is better.


2)LUKEWARM
Some are lukewarm ... their heart is not in it. They cannot even take the time to read the Bible once from beginning to end. (shakes head grimly). They really are not that interested in God, but they ARE interested in saving their own skin from hell. But salvation is eternity with God ... why would one want to spend eternity with someone they are not interested in? So in ignorance (because they have not learned the will of God) they go what they think is the easiest route- pick out the rules and follow them.


3) PRIDE
Some folks just cannot give up their pride and give God all the credit for the good fruits that come forth from them.


*The first is on the right track and will likely come to the truth in time. The second may come to the truth if they persist in God's word ... or they may be spewed out of Christ's mouth. The third is really missing the boat and probably have yet to come to Christ in repentance.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I agree ....it's no wonder people reject things - it is not the real gospel of Christ they hearing......they hear..keep these rules..they are rebelling against that - and not necessarily Christ. Only God knows the difference of what is in their hearts.

What is the answer to this in your opinion?

My answer is to keep on pointing Christians to the reality of the living, indwelling Christ. Christianity IS Christ. Genuine Christianity requires the presence and function of the life and Person of the living Lord Jesus. Jesus Christ is not just the historical founder of a "Christian religion” who has left us a book of rules to live by. He is the spiritual essence of Christianity, dynamically functioning within we who are living by faith in Him.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Awesome post.

I like your comments about this in another thread. I think it simple to put it like this...

Works cannot earn salvation.
Faith, which produces works, inherits salvation.

Maybe a better way to word that, but was just looking for a simplified way of saying.

Thoughts?

How about:

Works cannot earn justification.
Faith, which p̶r̶o̶d̶u̶c̶e̶s̶ ̶ works, inherits salvation.

 

[trofimus]

Its much, much worse in EU.

True Christianity is disappearing in USA, but you are still in a better situation than the rest of the world, I would say.

 

[Markum1972]

Well said....

If we could define terms that may stop a lot of the bickering and mis-understanding that can go on. And people are allowed to agree to disagree on things as well.........that is not a bad thing...we are all at different places in our lives in the Lord.

The understanding of the differences between the salvation that is in us because of our union with Chris and the saving of our souls here on this earth are related and yet have 2 different meanings too and applications. C

Confuse the 2 and we start to develop a works-based mindset for "obtaining" and "maintaining" righteousness by doing good deeds and we end up watering down the gospel and the great salvation that is in Christ as we lived from an exchanged life. His life in us.

Agreed. The way I try to remember to keep things straight in my head is that the scriptures are true in all regards of literal and symbolic interpretations. Like it says, there are no secret interpretations. While we do have to rightly divide the truth as not to get carried away with just any doctrine, I have observed that most false doctrines are based on one thing being truth and the other not, when they are both in fact true. Thus a product of false doctrine is division while godliness brings us into unity/one accord.

Just an interesting thing that I noted about all of the miscommunication is that it all seemed to start with the tower of Babel. It says that they all had the same language but God confused them. I see that still at work today when we do not operate in the spirit of truth and love abiding in our Lord. I had never considered that what God did in Babel never ceased. It is only through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ that we can overcome it.

I admit that I fall short in the walking away and agreeing to disagree, especially when I think it is detrimental to a person or feel like someone is being a bully. This is where I need to just put more trust in God knowing that he is able to do all things. This seems to be the area that God is growing me in lately, so it is of no coincidence that you mentioned it.

Have really enjoyed the fellowship. Time for me to get some sleep. Hope to chat again. Grace and peace be with you through our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. So be it.

 

[Grace777x70]

Well said...*thepsalmists*...I especially love your statement here..

Quote:

I think what happens sometimes is that after living for years under the notion of works that it is a hard transition for some to simply accept the gift of grace. As children of this world we are raised with the upbringing that says "be good, follow the rules and you will be rewarded". We often experience the way of the world before the way of God and so there is a putting off of our old way of thinking before we can fully accept the new way of thinking.


That is so true in many areas. It is really God too that grants us repentance to change our thinking to the truth of knowing Him.

Here is a grace-based teaching on "lukewarm"..I like using this site as he tackles obscure scriptures and there are comments on the bottom of the article where people ask questions. I sometimes learn just as much from them too..

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/07/24/are-you-lukewarm/

 

[Grandpa]

Its because people don't understand. They don't understand un-merited favor.

Everything they understand is merited. You reap what you sow, they will say. Maybe even give bible verses for it.


How does sinful man reap Salvation? Well he can't. He has no power to do so. Only God can give the man Salvation.

Its just like that parable that the Lord explained that starts "Lord, Lord haven't we done all these wonderful things in your name?"


The solution is to tell people to stop being spoon fed non-sense. To actually desire to find the Truth themselves and to actively pursue it. But this takes effort.

And there are many people and many organizations that are actively against this.

Its so much like the John Bunyan book Pilgrims Progress that its not even funny.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Behavior matters in how we live here in this earth now and determines the quality of life that we experience from us being in Christ.

But you don't believe that behavior matters in terms of salvation, correct? In other words, we can live like the devil and still be saved. Correct?

 

[Grace777x70]

My answer is to keep on pointing Christians to the reality of the living, indwelling Christ. Christianity IS Christ. Genuine Christianity requires the presence and function of the life and Person of the living Lord Jesus. Jesus Christ is not just the historical founder of a "Christian religion” who has left us a book of rules to live by. He is the spiritual essence of Christianity, dynamically functioning within we who are living by faith in Him.

Amen...well said...and this is where those that have the need to "work" the rules to "maintain righteousness " have a very hard time to swallow.

Can we really just live by the life of Christ inside of us? Can we really trust the Holy Spirit to lead us? Can we trust that the fruit of His life in us being love is what we can live by now?

 

[FreeNChrist]

But you don't believe that behavior matters in terms of salvation, correct? In other words, we can live like the devil and still be saved. Correct?

It's fleshly thinking that sees grace and thinks, "I can just sin like the devil then". Sure, you can. But why would you want to?

 

[Grace777x70]

 

[Grandpa]

But you don't believe that behavior matters in terms of salvation, correct? In other words, we can live like the devil and still be saved. Correct?

This is the kind of silliness that is being perpetuated by people with no understanding of Christianity.


Which of the fruit of the Spirit is "live like the devil"??????

 

[FreeNChrist]

Amen...well said...and this is where those that have the need to "work" the rules to "maintain righteousness " have a very hard time to swallow.

Can we really just live by the life of Christ inside of us? Can we really trust the Holy Spirit to lead us? Can we trust that the fruit of His life in us being love is what we can live by now?

The Christian life is Christ, and only He can live it. That's what scripture is telling us when it tells us to live by faith in Jesus Christ…it is telling us to let Him be who He is, God, in and through we who are not.