always learning?

posthuman · May 18, 2016

the world commonly talks about having a state of 'always learning' as a virtue -
to no matter how convicted you are of some truth, to be willing to hear and entertain another point of view.
or, to always be open to admitting that you might be wrong.
this is even sometimes pointed to as not just 'common sense' but being a 'Christian' frame of mind to live in -- as though it is to 'not judge' whether someone is wrong about something or not; to be 'kind' and always consider another persons take on something.

but is this scriptural?
what does that idea ((i hope i've explained well enough)) have to do with this passage, if anything:

They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.
(2 Timothy 3:6-7)

?

if you are always ready to consider an opposing view, a different version of what you think is true, then do you ever truly have 'knowledge' ?
do you know the "truth" if you can't be sure of it?
is it a Christian perspective to be open to different ideas, and never being 'dogmatic' about what is so and what is not so --
or is this in reality antichrist ?
please support either view with scripture, if you can .. ?

sorry if this is vague; i'm having trouble finding the right words to express it. maybe someone can help me with that, if you know what i'm trying to get at here.

thanks

Blain · May 18, 2016

Well posthuman it is indeed good whether you are a Christian or not to have a spirit of learning to have a teachable heart. But as christian this has very deep and profound effect. If you notice many come here and even when they are shown evidence they are wrong they refuse to accept it, now I cannot speak for others but for myself God taught me that if I am stubborn in my own views and beliefs and refuse to accept I may be wrong then even when shown the truth of the matter I will be blind to it.

in fact had i not questioned my views and doctrines had I not had a teachable heart I would still not know the hidden truths God revealed to me. Think of this when we read the bible a common issue is every verse can be interpreted in many ways and most of the time the interpretation while we can convince ourselves is because of the holy spirit is really from what we already believe and see our views our beliefs our doctrines are already set in stone in our minds and so that is what we see in the scriptures.

One cannot have this kind of heart in reading the bible because even if the truth is right in front of us we will never see it, thus we are always learning but never truly come to the truth. Our truths and the bibles truth can so easily be confused

wwjd_kilden · May 18, 2016

Depends how you view it I guess.

Some knowledge of the enemy makes you able to know his tricks and defeat him
Too much, and he might recruit you

Blain · May 18, 2016

wwjd_kilden said:

I think if we know that much about him he wouldn't try to recruit us because he cant trick us if anything he would be like you know to much i cannot let you walk away

Persuaded · May 18, 2016

posthuman said:

the world commonly talks about having a state of 'always learning' as a virtue -
to no matter how convicted you are of some truth, to be willing to hear and entertain another point of view.
or, to always be open to admitting that you might be wrong.
this is even sometimes pointed to as not just 'common sense' but being a 'Christian' frame of mind to live in -- as though it is to 'not judge' whether someone is wrong about something or not; to be 'kind' and always consider another persons take on something.

but is this scriptural?
what does that idea ((i hope i've explained well enough)) have to do with this passage, if anything:

They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.
(2 Timothy 3:6-7)

?

if you are always ready to consider an opposing view, a different version of what you think is true, then do you ever truly have 'knowledge' ?
do you know the "truth" if you can't be sure of it?
is it a Christian perspective to be open to different ideas, and never being 'dogmatic' about what is so and what is not so --
or is this in reality antichrist ?
please support either view with scripture, if you can .. ?

sorry if this is vague; i'm having trouble finding the right words to express it. maybe someone can help me with that, if you know what i'm trying to get at here.

thanks

I am always ready to admit I am wrong and willing to change my mind as long as the Scripture changes my mind.
I always study with an open mind. I do not look for Scripture to prove what I believe, but let the Scripture teach me.
I have changed my mind, i.e. learned the truth, several times during the last 35 years.

Grace777x70 · May 18, 2016

I think we are just as dependent on the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ in the scriptures to us as Mary was dependent on the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus in her womb.

We can get "bible" knowledge in the letter of the scriptures but miss Jesus and the Father's heart in the Spirit of what was written. The Pharisees and scribes and lawyers "knew the scriptures" but did not really know the Author and Who it was really all about.

oldethennew · May 18, 2016

HEB.10:22.
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled
from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

ember · May 18, 2016

hmmm....a good topic for discussion...thinking is fun

I believe there is absolute truth, Jesus: : I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE

There is salvation by no other name...

what Blain is saying about a teachable spirit is so, yet the world always strives for more than it is even capable of understanding and in so doing, reaches past what is for mankind to understand...ie tower of Babel

knowledge of God as presented by the Holy Spirit is a base for more understanding and we can always go deeper

just reflecting out loud

again, good topic!

wwjd_kilden · May 18, 2016

Blain said:

I guess it depends more HOW one learns about him. Some people go about it in bad ways.

BeyondET · May 18, 2016

Psalm 139:18 and when I wake up are you still with me.

ember · May 18, 2016

truth be told, I just want to go past it all

I want to know in knowing as I am known

sometimes get a glimpse of that....

all love, all life, all wisdom and knowledge

God sweeps away the curtain to reveal His heart..He hands it to us...it cuts and hurts...yet is anything we could ever want

what do we do with that?

PilgrimPassingThru · May 18, 2016

The verse before it has a comma, it begins there and follows after in verse 7 there

2 Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

2 Ti 3:7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

reneweddaybyday · May 18, 2016

As long as we are on this earth, there will always be something we can learn from God's Word. We are all on a path and others may be further along the path laid out in Scripture than others, some may have strayed and are lost, and some may not have found the path. That does not mean that those on the right path who are ahead are any better or worse than those who are behind (and vice versa). The fact of the matter is that in this lifetime, we will see through a glass darkly and we will know in part but in eternity we shall see face to face and we shall know even as also [we are] known (1 Cor 13:12). So none of us has the corner on all there is to know.

You may know more than me about something and I might know more than you about another. We are instructed to speak God's Word to all we meet.

1 Corinthians 3:

5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

9 For we are labourers together with God ...

Paul and Apollos are no longer here. All born again believers are the Paul and Apollos of our day and time.

I think of the person who plants as a person who speaks to someone who has never heard anything about what is being shared.

I think of the person who waters as a person who speaks to someone who has already heard what is being shared. In other words, they are "watering" truth which had been previously "planted".

In both cases (planting / watering), it is God Who gives the increase in the heart of the one who hears. It is not my responsibility to make someone believe the truth of Scripture. That is God's working in the heart of the person. It might take more than one time of hearing something before we actually come to faith concerning that issue. That does not mean the person who spoke did not speak the truth of God's Word, nor does it mean that God was not working in the heart to bring the increase. It just means it took time for the hearer to accept the truth.

Some people are like those in your OP who are ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth (2 Tim 3:7). Are they not able to come to the knowledge of the truth because I do not speak God's Word? That could be and, if so, that is error on my part, not on the part of the hearer. However, if I do speak the truth of God's Word and they still do not come to faith, it is not because God is not working in their heart. It is because they are rejecting the truth of God's Word. They are suppressing/restraining the truth in unrighteoutness (Rom 1:18).

royalscot · May 18, 2016

organised religion. v bible facts.

telling people about jesus. has many facts mixed with misunderstood scripture.

for example
2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?Galatians 3

always learning , is a fact of life.
human opinions, will change, over the coarse of your life time. ie baby to teen to young adult, middle age. to oap (god willing)etc

doing what god asks, you to do, is the rhema word. spoken direct to you. (your own personal relationship with god.etc)
for example
going and visit your, nabour, oap, friend , family member etc
helping someone across the road.
taking a scripture to your church. etc

to many look at commands ,as in the commandments. when they miss the good samaritian.

who gave help, even when it cost him. and he never looked for a return, or a thank you.

PilgrimPassingThru · May 18, 2016

PilgrimPassingThru said:

Here Paul speaks of even the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness (verses being led away with the divers of the above)

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect,
and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Titus 1:3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

Titus 1:4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Depleted · May 18, 2016

posthuman said:

I'm not any surer than you are if you explained it the way you meant to, but let's see if we can be open-minded enough to see it from another POV to see if we have truth going on here.

Which is pretty much what I think is the best way to handle these moments from a Biblical perspective... which just happens to be the right perspective, so the world should be open-minded enough to consider the bible too.

I really do try to see things with an open-mind, but that doesn't mean I have to accept another POV. I've learned evolution according to true evolutionist. (True evolutionists are not merely people who were trained in evolution at an early age in school, and merely believed it because they were told it's the truth. It's the people who studied it and agree that evolution is the right way to see things and then start with that assumption while looking at new discoveries that are supposed to fit into what they believe. They may be wrong -- well, they are wrong -- but at least they put in the effort to decide to go that way.) I appreciate the effort they put into their work, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them.

I've learned what true liberals think enough to not think they're nuts. I get the effort they put into what they believe and can see where, yeah, the poor in the country are getting the raw end of the deal and something should be done about that. I just don't trust the government is that "something" given their record of making it worse.

I also get that a homosexual couple really should get the same thing as the common-law married couple gets. If you can live with someone for seven years and end up being the one responsible for your partner's property and his/her life by the laws in America, then exactly how does it make sense that if you're the same gender that same law doesn't apply? BUT that doesn't mean I think they should marry specifically because of the "sanctified by God" part of the marriage vows. God's not sanctifying someone determined to live in sin.

So, no. I don't think we need to cut off any conversation with someone we disagree with simply because we disagree. To do that is also cutting off the possibility that they can hear our side and think that over in equal amounts of open-mindedness.

I'm openminded, but not to the point where my brain falls out.

If someone just expects me to accept their version of life, they're not being open-minded at all. THEN it becomes a matter of how much manure do they think they can pile on. I choose how much manure I'll accept. And if it's all manure, it's not open-minded at all. It's a crock!

BUT in like kind, the vast majority of people on this site also think they can pile on the manure. They don't have to listen to the other side because they alone are all knowledge about their particular subject matter.

I really am pretty knowledgeable about marketing, communications, writing, teddy bears, (yes, that's a little disturbing lol), container gardening but only if we're talking Zone 6B in the Northern hemisphere, and the general message in the Bible. If I decided to take anyone of those topics as my fulltime mission -- to learn all about it in my lifetime -- there will never ever be a time when I have full knowledge on that subject.

So, I am knowledge but not fully knowledgeable. And I will never become more knowledgeable in anything, if I don't keep an open-mind to hear descending POVs.

What has happened in America (and from what I hear in Europe too) is a new wave of embolcile speak feigning as intellectual debate. The truth is what they do is when they can no longer defend a position they change course to something they perceive as related to the discussion, but isn't at all. And then they feign indignation if you don't go along with it.

Fixable and easily dealt with just as long as people will think for themselves. Most have given up even trying to though.

Sirk · May 18, 2016

"Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. But in humility consider another better than you consider yourself."

Jesus certainly did that. Think about for a moment what God did. He came down in the muck and wallowed with the pigs. He knew ALL the truth but He didn't cram it down our throats. He came and lived with the smells and the dirt and the dust right along side us and lived it out right before our eyes. Sure, He taught with words and truth....but he also taught with action and silence. He felt for us and extended empathy for our condition and didn't condemn the multitude of stupidity that was around him and that also calls Him Lord today. Myself included. He accepts us. So should we extend to those around us. To provide a window of significance to another human being in the hopes that they will one day get their significance from the same source we get ours. I think that THAT, is the perfect love that casts out fear. Otherwise we are just trying to prove something and that gets in the Holy Spirits way.

Just my two cents.

BeyondET · May 18, 2016

probably could say always learning listening always. there is two parts of the tree of knowledge but it's out there like 2 Timothy which in my opinion is a teaching about that.

PilgrimPassingThru · May 18, 2016

Unsubscribes on this one

Depleted · May 18, 2016

PH, What percentage of us landed in the ballpark you were contemplating? There is such a diversity of answers. I am even more lost if any of us got what you were saying.

always learning?

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