patterns of deception, adam, eve and the serpent

jasonj · May 22, 2016

I find the events in the garden to have much insight into things, hope something of worth is found by someone else...

The first deception.

Genesis 3:1-10 " Now the serpent was more crafty than all the wild animals the Lord God had made. ( step one) He said to the Woman. "Did God really say, you must not eat from any tree in the Garden?" the woman said to the serpent " we may eat fruit from the trees in the Garden , ( step two ) but God did say. " you must not eat the fruit from the tree in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die."

(step3) "you will not surely die" the serpent said to the woman. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

step four) when the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also Gave some to her husband, WHO WAS WITH HER, and he ate it.

(step 5) Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sowed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves. Then the man and His wife Heard the sound of the Lord God as He was walking in the garden in the cool of the evening, and they Hid from the Lord God among the trees of the Garden. But the Lord God called to the man "where are you?" He answered " I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked so I hid"

step one, the enemy asks did "God really say that you must not" notice His focus is not on what God gave freely and approved of, but on the one thing He said not to do. and also notice the beginning of His plan is to get man to acknowledge what God said. which is step 2 eve acknowledges correctly what God had said. step 3, once she acknowledges the command of God, the enemy offers the lie a direct opposite of the life and death aspect of Gods command. "surely you will not die" he then twists the truth to turn eves mind against Gods truth and goodness making the lie appealing " in essence he is saying " God doesn't want you to have this, hes keeping something good from you"

step four, eve accepts the deception, and already she is seeing things as the serpent says and not God, she believes it will not kill me, its actually good for me. it looks good, and it will make me wise. also, just saying, adam was right there with her so to blame eve isn't proper in my opinion. He was aware of the conversation as well.

step 5 we see that the serpent wasn't lying about everything, but the Lie " you will not die" the fruit did open their eyes, and it did make them like God knowing good and evil(genesis 3:22) the part that mattered and was the lie "you will not surely die" then we see already, that man is now afraid of God, his mind sees God differently now, he hides away from God, or tries to...the result separation from the intimate presence of God, which results in death because life is found in Knowing God ( john 17:3) or having a real and personal relationship with God as many word it.

this is how false doctrine operates. there will be truth , but truth will be omitted and distorted. all false doctrine is supported by a few scriptures, the scriptures are true, but the understanding is not. the intent is not. for instance "health and wealth, or the prosperity gospel" they teach true scripture to support a selfish doctrine that is about prospering themselves. plenty of scripture supports this we are blessed through obedience without question. BUT the gospel teaches us we are blessed so that we are able to Help the poor. this part is omitted feeding the narural greed and selfishness that the gospel prohibits. and many things are twisted or ignored to support the false doctrine as the whole truth.

when doctrines are examined against the precepts of The gospel of Jesus Christ, the truth, or fallacy of the doctrine is revealed, because all who place their faith in Jesus, cant possibly think His teachings are wrong. He himself is the truth. whether you have the same take as I on the original deception, and how it is a pattern of all false doctrine, I encourage you to study and pray for wisdom about true doctrine, and false doctrine. it is truly of great importance to believe correctly based on what God has said to Christians through Jesus Christ, and learn from the scriptures throughout the bible. it is all relevant from the view of the gospel.

God bless you, The bible is not a book, but Gods truth left and preserved for mankind. and Gods word is power, and faith, it is a map to treasure unthinkable, even life eternal in the presence of God Himself. all glory, power , wisdom, honor and majesty belong to God, by the nature of these things, they belong to God through Jesus Christ.

crossnote · May 22, 2016

Hmm, you need to be careful with the phrase 'who was with her' in Gen 3:6.
Most translations do not have that phrase, and it would seem to contradict Paul here...

and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
(1Ti 2:14)

If Adam was with Eve, then he would have been the one deceived as well.

jasonj · May 22, 2016

crossnote said:

I trust the translation. not that you ar anyone else needs agree, and this is not given in a rude intention, I trust the niv. and consider that if it was eves total blame. adam would not have been so punished. eve ate first no dispute, but either way they were one flesh according to scripture beforehand. The blame was put on all three. adam was culpable as the authority over eve anyhow. I do trust the niv however, not that anyone else needs to, and really that was an added thought and stated in the op as my opinion not as fact......in my opinion, they both understood the command and the lie. had adam not been deceived or corrupted, He would have never eaten. His mind was certainly deceived but that's my opinion, nothing more. God bless

jasonj · May 22, 2016

crossnote said:

kjv ...."and she took the fruit therof and did eat and gave also to her husband with her, and he did eat."

I'm sure with all the translation words are not always going to match, always like to check against the kjv, as I learn from the niv, never find many differences of matter to myself though, I trust Gods ability to keep His word pure until it begins to be omitted like the new translations being pushed for to be more socially acceptable, wich intend to remove offensive things Like condemning homosexuality ect.....

HeRoseFromTheDead · May 22, 2016

jasonj said:

According to the Hebrew, that translation is exact.

jasonj · May 22, 2016

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

the kjv in my opinion is the most universally accepted translation in the modern world, even myself. though I study and find better understanding in the niv ( for myself) , if something doesn't seem right, I always check the kjv.

Magenta · May 22, 2016

“And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” 1 Tim 2:14

... but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. James 1:14-15

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned-- Romans 5:12

Adam was not deceived, but sinned willfully.

jasonj · May 22, 2016

Magenta said:

like I said, its my opinion adam was with eve and was aware of the deception. but thanx for adding your opinion. bless you

Zmouth · May 22, 2016

jasonj said:

How could Adam been with Eve when it is written, a man and his wife shall be one flesh?

If God called there name Adam in the day they were created, why would you call the female by the name Eve, especially since Adam did not call his wife Eve until Genesis 3:20, etc., etc. and etc.

So if Eve was the mother of all living, then would all living refer unto man or "all living"? We know that the serpent was the most subtil of any of the beast of the field that the LORD God had made.

It's not deception, it is the hidden manna spoke of in Revelations 2:17,

jasonj · May 22, 2016

Zmouth said:

I have no understanding, thus no debate of what you are saying. thanks for adding your thought. the reason I hold the opinion He was with her, is because the scripture says he was with her. whether I'm correct or not not really important because I'm not presenting that as fact, but my opinion lol. I hold to the truth of Jesus words, if I'm standing on His words discussing the gospel, I know that what I'm saying is true. this op is a thought for people to consider.....not at all stated as the truth, just a thought as it is stated.

and in my view the scripture states eve was deceived, and in my opinion, adam also was deceived. whether he heard the serpent as did eve, or whether he listened to His wife and ate the fruit as scripture says. definitely manking was and still is deceived. but honestly could be that your understanding is elevated to a higher level or something. thanks for the additional thoughts.....hope someone else will understand what you said, just being honest, I don't. God bless

Tintin · May 22, 2016

Jason: ...which is step 2 eve acknowledges correctly what God had said.

Really? Not according to the Bible. Already she begins to lie.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, [SUP]3 [/SUP]but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’”

Genesis 3:2-3

But this is what God really said.

And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, [SUP]17 [/SUP]but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

Genesis 2:16-17

God never mentioned that they couldn't touch the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, only that they couldn't eat it. Eve was already deceived by the serpent. Adam willfully rebelled against God.

jasonj · May 22, 2016

Tintin said:

did eve not have the choice ? im not arguing what you are saying..... but eve disobeyed because of what He said, even oif adam wasn't present as the scripture says, Gods reply to adam " because you listened to your wife and ate" so whats the difference? the deception came from the serpent, and for the sake of argument, came through eve to adam. there is no difference to me. willfully ? did eve have no will ? she had and acknowledged the same commandement "do not eat the fruit" and He offered a choice, she chose to follow the serpents wprd, adam had the same commandment and chose to follow the same word whether he heard it from eve, or he was present.

and step two is to the point " He who hears my words and doesn't keep them" to transgress a law, first we have to know the law. that's why the law was given for the knowledge of what sin is. sin is knowing what is right, and not doing it. the point of step two : if you have 2 children same age, one you make clear "do not write on the wall" the other child you never tell them this rule. who is in the wrong if they both write on the wall? is it fair to punish the one who did not know? to know what God says, brings accountability. that was definitely a part of His deception. "did God say this?"...."yes He did"...."surely God is lying" the first choice of right and wrong. if eve hadn't heard Gods word, she could not be held responsible. that was my thinking on step two. with no knowledge of law, there is no accountability to keep it. she did acknowledge " God said don't eat it or you will die" that is correct. and I imagine God said a lot more to the man and woman, remember there is no record of her ever being told anything directly, but she knew the caommandment. I doubt every word is recorded. but what we need to know is there.

crossnote · May 22, 2016

jasonj said:

Eve wasn't totally blamed She was deceived but Adam deliberately disobeyed by receiving from Eve what was forbidden by God.
Paul said Eve was deceived, do you disagree with Paul?
If Adam was with Eve why wasn't Adam charged with being deceived? If he wasn't deceived while being with Eve then he should have been charged with neglecting to protect Eve. It just doesn't make sense that the serpent approaches Eve with Adam present and Adam is mum the whole time.

Grace777x70 · May 22, 2016

Tintin said:

Amen!....This is a great example of adding onto what God said as it deceives us. She probably "touched the tree" and nothing happened so then she ate of the fruit. Adding our own traditions and beliefs onto the clear word of God will deceive us.

jasonj · May 23, 2016

crossnote said:

why did God say to adam " the ground is cursed because of you"? again, what caused eve to eat the fruit? are you saying she had no choice? she did. she had Gods commandment first, the choice, came when the serpent offered the other word. free will was made from the beginning. man and woman were both made in Gods image. it makes good sense to me lol but as I have said, no one has to agree...... or read or like ect.... just some thoughts as I had assumed I made pretty clear. yeah I do disagree with that statement of paul I think, as of right now, yeah I do disagree with that.

I also see paul contradict things he says, I see him speak of no man boasting and he goes on in different letters to boast even acknowledging himself in the letters ( I'm oiut of my mind to talk like this) ect....paul admits His own faults in more than one place. he also says ( ive made a fool of myself, but you drove me to it.) paul had flaws like all of us do, this doesn't discredit His writings and I think there is a purpose in those things.

but explain the difference to me, because I see it this way

eve knew the commandment not to eat the fruit. adam did also. eve heard the lie, and ate. are we assuming that adam was unaware that she was giving him the forbidden fruit? or did adam know what he was doing, just like eve did and both chose to disobey? to me. ever knew Gods word, chose to follow the serpents. adam knew Gods word, chose to transgress it. are you saying eve had no choice in the matter? it sounds like that. eve ate knowing the truth, adam ate knowing the truth. explain how there is a difference that makes adams choice willful and eves not willful is m,y question, and honestly, if I'm missing it, id like to know.....

the scripture says he was with her is why I think that. kjv, niv.

jasonj · May 23, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

can I ask you, do you think everything God spoke to adam and eve is recorded? if that is the case, where is eve told the commandment she obviously knew? if its not in scripture? adam never told her in scripture, God never told her in scripture. so how did eve know? are we to use common sense and think, well someone told her? I'm not willing to say eve was lying or deceived. by that thinking, a bunch of stuff must have happened we don't understand. how was she deceived? if not what is written?

NarrowRoadDisciple · May 23, 2016

Eve was indeed deceived by the serpent in the garden. Satan chose to sow doubt as to God's truth and as a result Eve was deceived. However, interestingly enough, Eve's eyes were not opened until ADAM ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The verses render that Adam was with her when she ate and I believe what the scriptures state. Adam therefore willingly transgressed what God told him for the sake of listening to his wife.

This happens several times throughout the bible. Ahab was called the wickedest King of Israel simply because he allowed his wife Jezebel to run rampant, take over essentially as head of family/state, and merge wicked pagan practices into the worship of God as well as outright worship of the false gods from a country level. He did not tend to his household, country, and people according to God's order. Similarly, Adam could have told Eve that he wouldn't eat of the fruit, but instead he gave in and ate.

jasonj · May 23, 2016

NarrowRoadDisciple said:

so eves transgression want willful? what is the difference she knew Gods command, adam knew Gods command. both chose to transgress. what is the difference that makes eves transgression not willful? the way I see it she knew the commandment, adam knew it and both made the choice. he was with her and I'm thinking heard the same conversation. but again it is my thought, nothing more. to your ;ast point, did eve not have the choice? was she forced? or given a choice? like adam was?

Magenta · May 23, 2016

jasonj said:

can I ask you, do you think everything God spoke to adam and eve is recorded? if that is the case, where is eve told the commandment she obviously knew? if its not in scripture? adam never told her in scripture, God never told her in scripture. so how did eve know? are we to use common sense and think, well someone told her? I'm not willing to say eve was lying or deceived. by that thinking, a bunch of stuff must have happened we don't understand. how was she deceived? if not what is written?

Adam was told before Eve was even created.

Grace777x70 · May 23, 2016

jasonj said:

I don't think everything that God spoke to Adam and Eve was recorded. If it was , then He didn't have much to say. God told Adam not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil - not Eve. She did not come from the rib of Adam yet. Adam most likely told Eve about the tree - maybe it was him that added unto God's word? Of course that is speculation too but we do know for sure that Eve added onto what God said about the tree. "You shall not touch it.."

The main deception in the garden was appealing to Eve's sense of "wanting to be like God" which seems like a good intention but she was already like God and had His image.

The true deception was IMO - " you can be like God without God". She wanted to know good and evil in order to be like God. That is the very essence of the mystery of iniquity that is in the world and it came by eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

The fruit of knowing good is the same fruit as the knowing of evil. Just 2 sides of the same coin. It is the same tree. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is the law and it is through the law that sin entered into this world and the conscience was infected and/or introduced into mankind. They should have eaten from the tree of Life which is what we do now in Christ.

But there is a lot of speculation about Adam and Eve but if it was important - God would have told us.

patterns of deception, adam, eve and the serpent

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