You know what's really wrong with the church?

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Depleted

Guest
#1
You are the church!

Can we please get over thinking we're church-fixers now? A lot of posters recently have concluded that something is wrong with "the church" as if the church is an entity unrelated to poster. Hello? YOU ARE THE CHURCH! I am the church! If there is something wrong with the church, you don't even have to walk out your door to fix it. You are it!

If we start with that assumption then we can go about fixing the rest AFTER we fix ourselves.

Seem reasonable?

If it does, you're still not catching on fully. Have you tried fixing yourself recently? Doesn't work, does it? (Didn't work when you tried to fix someone else either. Really doesn't come close to working if you keep thinking the church is some unknown entity.)

Yeah, we need the bridegroom. Since we are the church, and Jesus loves the church like the bridegroom loves the bride, then we need bridegroom fixing us, instead of volunteering advice on how to fix the rest of the bride.

And when we stop being a mess, and we start truly loving God like he loves us (perfectly), then let's get out the hammer and nails to fix the rest of the church. (You can retire the tools.)

Now? What is the likelihood of ending the constant assault on the church on here when WE ARE THE CHURCH -- you included?
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,623
1,381
113
#2
I would say "preach it, sister" but then you wouldn't say anything else. (no women preachers, right? :D)

But, you are spot on with your thoughts and comments.....
 
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PurerInHeart

Guest
#3
You are the church!

Can we please get over thinking we're church-fixers now? A lot of posters recently have concluded that something is wrong with "the church" as if the church is an entity unrelated to poster. Hello? YOU ARE THE CHURCH! I am the church! If there is something wrong with the church, you don't even have to walk out your door to fix it. You are it!

If we start with that assumption then we can go about fixing the rest AFTER we fix ourselves.

Seem reasonable?

If it does, you're still not catching on fully. Have you tried fixing yourself recently? Doesn't work, does it? (Didn't work when you tried to fix someone else either. Really doesn't come close to working if you keep thinking the church is some unknown entity.)

Yeah, we need the bridegroom. Since we are the church, and Jesus loves the church like the bridegroom loves the bride, then we need bridegroom fixing us, instead of volunteering advice on how to fix the rest of the bride.

And when we stop being a mess, and we start truly loving God like he loves us (perfectly), then let's get out the hammer and nails to fix the rest of the church. (You can retire the tools.)

Now? What is the likelihood of ending the constant assault on the church on here when WE ARE THE CHURCH -- you included?

Yes I work on becoming more like Christ everyday. Yes I agree that the church is not a building, but people.

But some people are led by false doctrines that do not save. And it's a Christian's job to share God's truth with others. We need to sow the seeds of truth, we are His messengers.
 
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Depleted

Guest
#4
Yes I work on becoming more like Christ everyday. Yes I agree that the church is not a building, but people.

But some people are led by false doctrines that do not save. And it's a Christian's job to share God's truth with others. We need to sow the seeds of truth, we are His messengers.
So your truth is "be like me? I got it all right, so just be like me?"
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
0
#5
I totally disagree with your premise. Its a cop out. It shelters you from 'examining the scriptures as the Bereans to see if things square with the word'. Acts 17:11.The scriptures have been given for exhortation, reproof, correction, encouragement, and rebuke. 2Tim. 4:2

You are saying you don't agree with that. Then why study the word, why bother if we are not to line up with His word? Throw that bible in the trash, 'it is no use to you'!

Jesus was wasting His time rebuking the money mad, ego laden pastors in the city, according to you. Many left off following Him for His 'hard sayings'. John 6:66

Jesus was always causing trouble by what He taught. According to you He should have kept a lid on it.

Paul could have spent his years basking in the sun on the Mediterranean sipping on latte's, instead of putting up with a bunch of loose footed Corrinthians and the like. Every man following after his own heart. It seems okee dokee. It feels so good but it leads to destruction. Proverbs 14:12

I still maintain that the 'church' is a million miles away from God's original plan. I do not believe, like some here, that we are to disregard His truth, for the traditions of men which nullify His word. Jesus said 'you have made of none effect the word by your traditions and you do so on many issues'. Mark 7:13

Then He said ' all of you LISTEN TO ME and understand.'

So we are commanded to LISTEN TO HIM! His word. You are saying that's not true. We should listen to the pulpit and its lies and obey Pastor Onthetake instead of Christ.

Jesus said 'my sheep know My voice and follow Me. They will not follow another'. John 10

So that's pretty clear. 'Chose you this day whom you will serve.....' Joshuah 24:15

If you cant hear His voice and can't see His word, and worse, dont want to see His word, or make excuses for a back slidden apostate 'church', then acording to the previous postulated verse, you are Not one of His sheep! I'd find a place to repent!

This total jettisoning of God's plan by christians, so called, is sad but not shocking. The NT warnings are there but few there be that will acknowledge.

Afterall, that was all written in the first century right? We are living in the day of the modern 'church'. We do things different now. Whoopie!
 
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Depleted

Guest
#6
Yes I work on becoming more like Christ everyday. Yes I agree that the church is not a building, but people.

But some people are led by false doctrines that do not save. And it's a Christian's job to share God's truth with others. We need to sow the seeds of truth, we are His messengers.
Or... you are a false messenger. I honestly don't know you well enough to make that decision yet, but why does everyone who likes attacking "the church" always think they are "the messenger?" Every message I've ever fully received was not an attack on the church and did not consider the church a foreign entity.
 
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Depleted

Guest
#7
I totally disagree with your premise.
No kidding, but this is about the church. This message isn't for you, because you really aren't the church. You just like to rant at the church.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#8
I totally disagree with your premise. Its a cop out. It shelters you from 'examining the scriptures as the Bereans to see if things square with the word'. Acts 17:11.The scriptures have been given for exhortation, reproof, correction, encouragement, and rebuke. 2Tim. 4:2

You are saying you don't agree with that. Then why study the word, why bother if we are not to line up with His word? Throw that bible in the trash, 'it is no use to you'!

Jesus was wasting His time rebuking the money mad, ego laden pastors in the city, according to you. Many left off following Him for His 'hard sayings'. John 6:66

Jesus was always causing trouble by what He taught. According to you He should have kept a lid on it.

Paul could have spent his years basking in the sun on the Mediterranean sipping on latte's, instead of putting up with a bunch of loose footed Corrinthians and the like. Every man following after his own heart. It seems okee dokee. It feels so good but it leads to destruction. Proverbs 14:12

I still maintain that the 'church' is a million miles away from God's original plan. I do not believe, like some here, that we are to disregard His truth, for the traditions of men which nullify His word. Jesus said 'you have made of none effect the word by your traditions and you do so on many issues'. Mark 7:13

Then He said ' all of you LISTEN TO ME and understand.'

So we are commanded to LISTEN TO HIM! His word. You are saying that's not true. We should listen to the pulpit and its lies and obey Pastor Onthetake instead of Christ.

Jesus said 'my sheep know My voice and follow Me. They will not follow another'. John 10

So that's pretty clear. 'Chose you this day whom you will serve.....' Joshuah 24:15

If you cant hear His voice and can't see His word, and worse, dont want to see His word, or make excuses for a back slidden apostate 'church', then acording to the previous postulated verse, you are Not one of His sheep! I'd find a place to repent!

This total jettisoning of God's plan by christians, so called, is sad but not shocking. The NT warnings are there but few there be that will acknowledge.

Afterall, that was all written in the first century right? We are living in the day of the modern 'church'. We do things different now. Whoopie!
lol the church of Yet? how many members has it? One.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#9
Mercy, which do we fix first? If we get our hearts right before the Lord then will the corporate assembly improve? Or must we get the corporate assembly right to disciple the individual church?

Good discipleship will produce well grounded believers. Sound doctrine in the assembly will sharpen the countenance of the believers.

2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

If the folks want sound doctrine the Lord will send it. If the folks want their ears tickled the Lord will allow it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#10
Mercy, which do we fix first? If we get our hearts right before the Lord then will the corporate assembly improve? Or must we get the corporate assembly right to disciple the individual church?

Good discipleship will produce well grounded believers. Sound doctrine in the assembly will sharpen the countenance of the believers.

2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

If the folks want sound doctrine the Lord will send it. If the folks want their ears tickled the Lord will allow it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
That sounds too much like 'the Lord will build His Church'. :rolleyes:
 
B

Bigbruce

Guest
#11
Since 1973 I've been looking for the church I've read about in the book of acts.
The closest thing I found was a small group of men and women in SC. Many living together of a farm. Some lived and worked off the farm but everyone meet twice aweek in a church building.
I worked in town and lived in a appartment where 5 out of six resedents when to the same church as me.
The people where all studiers of the bible. So it was like being on church 16 hr a day. ( that would terrify most of you ).
I had to come back to Florida and I miss the fellowship and being accountable.
The biggest problem with the church today is people are bible aliterate.
A pile of oppinion can not unify.

The american church is not in the bible.
I have concluded long ago, to save my self from this perverse generation. The Lord is coming back for church without spot or wrinkle.
 
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
39
0
#12
Jesus said the kingdom of God is within us,by the Holy Spirit,but we still have to go against certain denominations that are wrong,as well as go against people on an individual level,for dealing with an individual,does not neccesarily change the physical building that is preaching wrong inside it,which the people inside it are going by that falseness.

We go against the individual,as well as the physical denomination,building,if they are wrong.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,173
2,536
113
#13
Before I point the finger to anyone I first must point the finger to myself I must search my heart daily and face, it is of no concern to me to point out what is wrong with the church I would rather first take care of what is wrong with me only then will I be prepared to help aid in what is wrong with the church
 
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
48
#14
The only active "fixers" of all churches I am familiar with are some folks forever complaining in letters to the editor of our local newspaper and online news media. None of them have anything personal to do with a church, yet try to be an expert covering the faults of the church. Our county Ministerial Alliance has discussed it, finding that relatively few members read papers or go online, so none of that is a serious threat. Their words describe people vying to be Pharisaic Pauls out to destroy that which they don't know. So we pray they have their encounter with the light of Jesus' glory, like Paul, who repented to serve the Church he once hated.

From the years of commentary, the standard by which local churches, and the Church in general, is based on TV religious programs. What they see "must be" what goes on locally. Another source of criticism is from internet blogs, those slanders passed on to other people "knowing" but never experienced.

Our men's group loaded up tools and materials to spend a Saturday replacing a porch about to fall in, for an old woman barely making ends meet. A neighbor submitted the request, paying for materials, to be a surprise so the woman wouldn't change her mind. That neighbor isn't even a Christian. When the neighbor knocked on the door to announce our intention, she said "You just want me to donate a thousand dollars to your church!" She closed the door, so we left. She passed up a new porch that had no strings attached except for a signed permission to carry out a city work permit. Goodbye to the $25 city fee and a lot of preparation. The city checked up on that, condemned the porch, arranged for repair from a contractor, then billed the homeowner. The house itself will likely fall so much more into disrepair it will be condemned soon. Bitterness is so terrible!

Not one pastor in the alliance (all denominations) in our local churches makes such financial requests, none demanding a single penny from anyone, though of course collect an offering with no pressure to give. Considering the current economy many now fear mentioning tithing, and won't mention the word "money" or "dollars". People hear pressure to give from TV ministries that rack up huge media bills. I realize they encourage use of credit cards without offering counseling to prevent hopeless debt. That's bad, as bad as online gambling using the credit cards. Always use your own money after taking care of responsibilities at home, such as feeding your children before considering gifts to a church. Not doing that makes a person an "infidel", whose gifts to God are "anathema", to be spit out.

Some of ours each year instead reach rock bottom due to insufficient funds, so have closed their churches without a plea for help. You drive by and suddenly it's vacant. That's the best way to do it, just announce it after the last sermon, have the power shut off, phone cancelled, then look for another ministry to join. None will run a church on credit. They put the matter to the Lord to fix.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,623
1,381
113
#15
Since 1973 I've been looking for the church I've read about in the book of acts.
The closest thing I found was a small group of men and women in SC. Many living together of a farm. Some lived and worked off the farm but everyone meet twice aweek in a church building.
I worked in town and lived in a appartment where 5 out of six resedents when to the same church as me.
The people where all studiers of the bible. So it was like being on church 16 hr a day. ( that would terrify most of you ).
I had to come back to Florida and I miss the fellowship and being accountable.
The biggest problem with the church today is people are bible aliterate.
A pile of oppinion can not unify.

The american church is not in the bible.
I have concluded long ago, to save my self from this perverse generation. The Lord is coming back for church without spot or wrinkle.
If you missed that fellowship, why did you not start an assembly just like it, in Florida? (I'm assuming you did not... I could be wrong)

This is what I find amusing/troubling with many people that bemoan the fact that "the church as we know it today" is just NOT scriptural. But, I don't hear any of them that are actually starting, or helping to start a "true" church.

It seems that it's easier to sit back and complain and condemn, than it is to actually DO something to correct the situation.

It actually begins to sound like a convenient excuse to explain their refusal to become a working member of a body of believers. Hopefully I'm wrong about that, but that is my observation.
 
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psalm6819

Guest
#16
the problem with the church is it's comprised of........people,

imperfect people like you and me :)

that's why the Bible says to look at Jesus not each other.

God bless us all
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
#17
So are you saying that people should not be standing up to false teachers and addressing any legitimate corruption going on in modern day Churches? If so you are going directly to the ditch if you keep that thinking up, if not please explain to me how I am misundestanding you.
 
May 20, 2016
406
2
0
#18
You are the church!

Can we please get over thinking we're church-fixers now? A lot of posters recently have concluded that something is wrong with "the church" as if the church is an entity unrelated to poster. Hello? YOU ARE THE CHURCH! I am the church! If there is something wrong with the church, you don't even have to walk out your door to fix it. You are it!

If we start with that assumption then we can go about fixing the rest AFTER we fix ourselves.

Seem reasonable?

If it does, you're still not catching on fully. Have you tried fixing yourself recently? Doesn't work, does it? (Didn't work when you tried to fix someone else either. Really doesn't come close to working if you keep thinking the church is some unknown entity.)

Yeah, we need the bridegroom. Since we are the church, and Jesus loves the church like the bridegroom loves the bride, then we need bridegroom fixing us, instead of volunteering advice on how to fix the rest of the bride.

And when we stop being a mess, and we start truly loving God like he loves us (perfectly), then let's get out the hammer and nails to fix the rest of the church. (You can retire the tools.)

Now? What is the likelihood of ending the constant assault on the church on here when WE ARE THE CHURCH -- you included?
Yes I know what is wrong with the Church. The people who go to the churches, and the people who lead the church, do not keep God’s Word. That means if one does not keep God’s Word, then they are sinning. If one sins they are followers of the devil. Christians can’t be followers of the devil, and Jesus at the same time. So the Churches are not of God but of the devil. That is what is wrong with the Church.

(Matthew 5:48) “Even the pagans do as much, do they not? You must therefore be perfect just as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”
(Luke 12:33) “Sell your possessions and give alms. Get yourselves purses that do not wear out, treasure that will not fail you, in Heaven where no thief can reach it and no moth destroy it. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”
(Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.”
Pharisee
(Matthew 6:19) “Do not store up treasures for yourselves on earth, where moths and woodworms destroy them and thieves can break in and steal.”


(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”
 
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psalm6819

Guest
#19
So are you saying that people should not be standing up to false teachers and addressing any legitimate corruption going on in modern day Churches? If so you are going directly to the ditch if you keep that thinking up, if not please explain to me how I am misundestanding you.
Hi Df07, I'm thinking you are talking to me so this is my response.

The word of God does not return void, hammering on people we don't agree with under the assumption that WE are the ONLY one that can change thier mind is NOT working....

Scripture and then let the Holy Spirit do the work.

Don't you think He can handle it better than we do???

Just read the forums....I don't see anyone's opinion changing after all the fighting
 
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
18
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#20
who ,said you were perfect, who said ,you have a voice, to who god blessed or gave the holy spirit too. etc

Galatians 3: By Faith, or by Works of the Law?
1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?

paul talking to peter. and peter being an eye witness to the crucified jesus, and resurrected jesus. etc

3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh

food for thought etc