When was the 'War in Heaven'?

[JohnOne]

Jesus will not return to earth till the last enemy is made his footstool ( which means cast to earth ) The last enemy is satan upon which 3 and half years of great tribulation then Jesus returns. All easily explained by God's word. All enemies have not been made his footstool yet. When satan is cast down he enters the man of sin which becomes the son of perdition just like Judas did in the past. Satan will indwell the man of sin. Tons of verses involved in all this.

Jesus told us the signs to watch for when these things were coming. Those things happen just before satan is cast out of heaven which is the precise moment the great tribulation begins. So you will know for sure when it happens. Again way to many verses involved to type out.

The earth is the Lords footstool ( Isaiah 66:1 ) Psalm 110:1 The Lords enemies will be made his footstool first. It means all the Lords enemies will be on earth before Jesus returns. Jesus hasn't returned yet so that hasn't happened yet. Again so many more scriptures involved.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

If people can't see that Satan is at work in the world right now, deceiving the whole world as written, then they also are blinded by his spirit believing his lies, and are also of the world.

 

[JohnOne]

Jesus will not return to earth till the last enemy is made his footstool ( which means cast to earth ) The last enemy is satan upon which 3 and half years of great tribulation then Jesus returns. All easily explained by God's word. All enemies have not been made his footstool yet. When satan is cast down he enters the man of sin which becomes the son of perdition just like Judas did in the past. Satan will indwell the man of sin. Tons of verses involved in all this.

Jesus told us the signs to watch for when these things were coming. Those things happen just before satan is cast out of heaven which is the precise moment the great tribulation begins. So you will know for sure when it happens. Again way to many verses involved to type out.

The earth is the Lords footstool ( Isaiah 66:1 ) Psalm 110:1 The Lords enemies will be made his footstool first. It means all the Lords enemies will be on earth before Jesus returns. Jesus hasn't returned yet so that hasn't happened yet. Again so many more scriptures involved.

Isa_66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?


Mat 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: Mat 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Mat 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.


Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?


Mar_12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.


Luk_20:43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.


Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.


Act_7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?


Hebrews 10:10-13 KJV By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.


Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. 36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. 37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. 38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

And many many many many many more verses. Again to many to post.

 

[Ahwatukee]

If people can't see that Satan is at work in the world right now, deceiving the whole world as written, then they also are blinded by his spirit believing his lies, and are also of the world.

InSpiritInTruth,

We know that Satan is at work in the world, but he and his angels also still have access to heaven. His being in the world right now does not mean that he is restricted here nor that the 7th trumpet has yet taken place with Satan and his angels been cast out. As I keep saying, show me the proof of the 5th and 6th trumpet having taken place, for they must take place prior to the 7th trumpet in sequential order. That said, I have not seen nor heard of demonic beings being let out of the Abyss to torment the inhabitants of the earth with stings like that of scorpions, nor have I seen nor heard of a third of the earth's population being killed by those four angels and their army of 200 million. Unless you have the events of the 5th and 6th trumpet already taken place, then you cannot have the 7th trumpet having already taken place, which is when Satan and his angels are cast out. You are misapplying scriptures to one another.

 

[JohnOne]

Isa_66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?


Mat 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: Mat 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Mat 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.


Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?


Mar_12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.


Luk_20:43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.


Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.


Act_7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?


Hebrews 10:10-13 KJV By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.


Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. 36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. 37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. 38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

And many many many many many more verses. Again to many to post.

Psa_110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

InSpiritInTruth,

We know that Satan is at work in the world, but he and his angels also still have access to heaven. His being in the world right now does not mean that he is restricted here nor that the 7th trumpet has yet taken place with Satan and his angels been cast out. As I keep saying, show me the proof of the 5th and 6th trumpet having taken place, for they must take place prior to the 7th trumpet in sequential order. That said, I have not seen nor heard of demonic beings being let out of the Abyss to torment the inhabitants of the earth with stings like that of scorpions, nor have I seen nor heard of a third of the earth's population being killed by those four angels and their army of 200 million. Unless you have the events of the 5th and 6th trumpet already taken place, then you cannot have the 7th trumpet having already taken place, which is when Satan and his angels are cast out. You are misapplying scriptures to one another.

God's will is already done in heaven, the earth is next. Satan was cast down from heaven to earth when Jesus said he was, at the time of Jesus' death and resurrection. I already showed this in my first post by scripture. But you guys believe what you will, you always do.

 

[Ahwatukee]

God's will is already done in heaven, the earth is next. Satan was cast down from heaven to earth when Jesus said he was, at the time of Jesus' death and resurrection. I already showed this in my first post by scripture. But you guys believe what you will, you always do.

Sorry man! In order to come to a conclusion, we have to allow scripture to interpret scripture. No matter which way you try to slice it, you can't have the 7th trumpet taking place before the 5th and 6th trumpets, which are the three woes and are in sequential order. As I said before, unless you or anyone else can produce proof of trumpets 5 and 6 having already taken place, you cannot have the 7th trumpet, which is when Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven. As for the scriptures you are providing, they are misapplied to the wrong event.

None of the seals, trumpets or bowl judgments have yet taken place and since Satan and his angels are cast out at the 7th trumpet, then the event could not yet have taken place. The reason why Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven and restricted to the earth is referred to as a "Woe" is because it is an event that the people of the earth will not be able to ignore. For regarding this scripture states the following:

"Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.”

The above means that when Satan and his angels are cast out, it is going to be very traumatic to the inhabitants of the earth to say the least. The warning above hardly fits Satan's current activity on the earth. But what is coming when he is cast out, will make what he is doing now look like a picnic in comparison. The reference to "his time is short" is because he is cast out in the middle of the seven years and since he is familiar with scripture, he knows that from the time he only has 3 1/2 years left before he is locked up in the Abyss.

The answer to whether or not Satan and his angels have been cast out or not can be found right there in the trumpet judgments and one need not go anywhere else to find the answer. It's just logical deduction of the sequence of events.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Sorry man! In order to come to a conclusion, we have to allow scripture to interpret scripture. No matter which way you try to slice it, you can't have the 7th trumpet taking place before the 5th and 6th trumpets, which are the three woes and are in sequential order. As I said before, unless you or anyone else can produce proof of trumpets 5 and 6 having already taken place, you cannot have the 7th trumpet, which is when Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven. As for the scriptures you are providing, they are misapplied to the wrong event.

None of the seals, trumpets or bowl judgments have yet taken place and since Satan and his angels are cast out at the 7th trumpet, then the event could not yet have taken place. The reason why Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven and restricted to the earth is referred to as a "Woe" is because it is an event that the people of the earth will not be able to ignore. For regarding this scripture states the following:

"Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.”

The above means that when Satan and his angels are cast out, it is going to be very traumatic to the inhabitants of the earth to say the least. The warning above hardly fits Satan's current activity on the earth. But what is coming when he is cast out, will make what he is doing now look like a picnic in comparison. The reference to "his time is short" is because he is cast out in the middle of the seven years and since he is familiar with scripture, he knows that from the time he only has 3 1/2 years left before he is locked up in the Abyss.

The answer to whether or not Satan and his angels have been cast out or not can be found right there in the trumpet judgments and one need not go anywhere else to find the answer. It's just logical deduction of the sequence of events.

The book of Revelation reads like a rotation, like the priests of the Lord circling Jericho before the fall. In that first post I showed the timing of when the war in heaven took place. The man-child in this verse is Jesus being born and then caught to heaven to God after his resurrection->>>>>

Revelation 12:1-9 "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:[SUP]2 [/SUP]And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And she brought forth a man child, (Jesus) who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

So right after Jesus ascended the war took place and Satan was cast down to earth. Believe it, or not.

 

[RobbyEarl]

It's not a war, It is court based on legality and the plaintiff's accusation is that God is no better than us or him or the angels that defiled women before and after the flood.

 

[JohnOne]

Paul operating in the Holy Spirit does a bible study on Matthew 24 ( Joh_14:26 ) But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Paul brings to remembrance the words of Jesus in order.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming ( coming is greek word parousia ) of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together ( Paul uses Christs words from Matthew 24:31 gather together the elect ) unto him,


The disciples in Matthew 24 ask Jesus Questions ( They asked the same question paul addressed in 2 Thess 2 - what shall be the sign of thy coming )

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming ( coming is greek word parosia ), and of the end of the world?

Jesus answers this question all throughout Matthew 24 about his coming:

Mat_24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming ( greek word parosia ) of the Son of man be.

Mat_24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming ( greek word parosia )of the Son of man be.

Mat_24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming ( greek word parosia )of the Son of man be.

Jesus speaks of a sign associated with His coming:

Matthew 24:29-31 KJV Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together ( same phrasing Paul uses in 2 Thess 2:1 )his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

At the beginning of Matthew 24 the disciples asked Jesus questions and the first words out of Jesus's mouth were:

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

So Paul in 2 Thess 2 does a bible study on Matthew 24 pointing us to Matthew 24 so you know what he is discussing by the coming of the Lord and our gathering together unto him. Now the Thessalonians know where he is talking about. Paul continues in same order Jesus used in Matthew 24.

( Paul points them to Matthew 24 ):

2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 KJV 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

( Paul follows Jesus's order to things )

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you ( Jesus first words after diciples asked him question were Take heed no man deceive you. Paul says let no man deceive you ) by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

In Matthew 24 when Jesus begins to answer questions of disciples he says Take heed no man deceive you first. Then Jesus describes a falling away.

People fall away by being deceived:

Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Results of deception mixed in

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Again more descriptions of the falling away that takes place

Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.


Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

So Jesus gives us the order:

Take heed no man deceive you. Jesus then describes the falling away. Then Jesus brings us to what happens next:

Matthew 24:15 KJV When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Jesus directed us to Daniel on this matter and then says certain things happen when this happens and gives it a title:

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Paul directs us to Jesus words in Matthew 24 and follows same order to give us more information.

Paul beseeches them by the coming and the gathering together unto the Lord.

Paul says let no man decive you by any means and stats the falling way first then the man of sin son of perdition

2 Thessalonians 2:3-6 KJV 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Paul gives us more info about the man of sin, son of perdition and what he will do.

Paul in 2 Thess 2:6 uses the word WITHHOLDETH this is very important!!! Pay attention.

Now Paul is doing a bible study on Matthew 24 for a certain reason. It is to reveal more information to the Thessalonians on what will happen. He directs them to Jesus words through the Holy Spirit working in him ( Paul ) which follows scripture. This will bring to remembrance the words of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Then Paul says the falling away first then man of sin. Same order Jesus followed. Then great tribulation. But Paul is addressing this to the Thessalonians cause people were saying this happened already and Paul is saying it didn't and goes in to more study on the matter with them starting with the words from the Lord in Matthew 24 on what happens.

Pauls main point is to show them who is withholding the man of sin from being revealed. First falling away then Jesus directs us to Daniel which is where this was spoken of. So Paul and the Thessalonians would know this since it follows same order as Jesus and Jesus pointed us to Daniel on this matter.


The abomination of desolation from Daniel: Where it was mentioned in Daniel:

From Daniel 11:34 through Daniel chapter 12:11 its discussed.

Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Almost in the middle of these two verses of the abomination and associated with the abomination is a very revealing verse!

Daniel 12:1 KJV And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Its important to note what we have learned so far from all this. Paul is doing a bible study to further educate the Thessalonians on this particular matter that was discussed by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself and Jesus pointed us to Daniel on what He was talking about. Why is Paul doing this study with Thessalonians. Because someone was telling them something different. So Paul is revealing more information by following what Jesus said in order from Matthew 24.

Daniel decribes the situation with the NATION IN MIND. JESUS INCLUDES THE NATION EXPANDING OUT TO THE WHOLE WORLD.

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.


Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Same things talked about but one is focused on the nation and the other Jesus says starts within Judea ( let them flee ) and will expand out to to the WORLD. So

Now back to the very revealing verse. Daniel reveals more information and Paul used the word witholdeth.



Daniel 12:1 KJV And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

When Michael does this THEN THERE SHALL BE A TIME OF TROUBLE SUCH AS NEVER WAS. or great tribulation.

Now lets examine the difficult verse from Paul:

Remember first Paul used the word withholdeth

2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Now what appears to be difficult verse:


2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The difficulty people have with this verse and its understanding is the words letteth and let.

So we go to the greek for more insight:

2Th 2:7 ForG1063 theG3588 mysteryG3466 of iniquityG458 doth alreadyG2235 work:G1754 onlyG3440 he who now lettethG2722 G737 will let, untilG2193 he be takenG1096 out ofG1537 the way.G3319

The Greek word numbers point us to the Greek word used upon which we can read the definition. The Greek word numbers are to the right of each word.

The Greek word number used for letteth is G2722



G2722 κατέχω , written katechō , pronounced kat-ekh'-o From G2596 and G2192; to hold down (fast), in various applications (literally or figuratively): - have, hold (fast), keep (in memory), let, X make toward, possess, retain, seize on, stay, take, withhold.

It means to withhold and also has the word LET in its definition.

Back to the difficult verse again with this new understanding and insight :

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth ( withholdeth) will let ( withhold ), until he be taken out of the way.

Now for a side short side study to reveal more about Michael which those who study God's word should arleady know. If you didn't you will now.


Dan_10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.


Dan_10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.


Dan_12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.


Jud_1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.


Rev_12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Michael was designed to contend, holdeth ( Dan 10:21 ), fight againt, and disput with the devil.

Revelation 12:7-12 KJV And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

When Michael stands up, stops witholding, and casts satan to earth THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION TAKES PLACE.

May the Lord bless you with wisdom and understanding. LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU BY ANY MEANS.

I have much much more to share but so many deceivers to contend with. Lots more verses involved. Lots

 

[PurerInHeart]

Well after the war in heaven Satan and his angels (now called demons) were hurled to the earth (so after creation) and he was there within Adam and Eve's lifetime (they lived about 900 years). We don't know when the war started, or how long it lasted, but we know when it ended.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Well after the war in heaven Satan and his angels (now called demons) were hurled to the earth (so after creation) and he was there within Adam and Eve's lifetime (they lived about 900 years). We don't know when the war started, or how long it lasted, but we know when it ended.

Hello PurerInHeart,

Please provide proof of the 5th and 6th trumpets as having taken place, because the war in heaven and Satan's being cast out is the 7th trumpet and 5 & 6 must precede trumpet 7. And just FYI, the word "Apokalupsis" translated "Revelation" means "something being revealed that was previously covered" and therefore, the war in heaven described in Rev.12:7 could not have take place prior to its writing in Revelation, for these are events of which John wrote "the things that must soon take place," which would be in the future tense from when John wrote Revelation.

Also, if you will notice, when Satan finds himself hurled to the earth he goes after the woman, (Israel) who is cared for out in the wilderness by God for1260 days (3 1/2 years) and the beginning of those 1260 days is when Satan and his angels are cast out. By the way, the war is only the means to over power Satan and his angels, but it is their restriction to the earth as being the reason for the woe, with Jesus returning to the earth to end the age at the end of that 3 1/2 years.

 

[PurerInHeart]

Hello PurerInHeart,

Please provide proof of the 5th and 6th trumpets as having taken place, because the war in heaven and Satan's being cast out is the 7th trumpet and 5 & 6 must precede trumpet 7. And just FYI, the word "Apokalupsis" translated "Revelation" means "something being revealed that was previously covered" and therefore, the war in heaven described in Rev.12:7 could not have take place prior to its writing in Revelation, for these are events of which John wrote "the things that must soon take place," which would be in the future tense from when John wrote Revelation.

Also, if you will notice, when Satan finds himself hurled to the earth he goes after the woman, (Israel) who is cared for out in the wilderness by God for1260 days (3 1/2 years) and the beginning of those 1260 days is when Satan and his angels are cast out. By the way, the war is only the means to over power Satan and his angels, but it is their restriction to the earth as being the reason for the woe, with Jesus returning to the earth to end the age at the end of that 3 1/2 years.

So you're saying that Satan was in heaven up until the point Mary, Jesus, and Joseph went to Egypt to escape those trying to kill Him? So even when Satan tempted Adam and Eve, and those in the days of Noah to become so evil, that he and the demons were in heaven with God?

I believe as John told what was to take place that he also mentioned what had already taken place- the whole story from beginning to end, and not in order, but switching from past and future often.

 

[Ahwatukee]

So you're saying that Satan was in heaven up until the point Mary, Jesus, and Joseph went to Egypt to escape those trying to kill Him? So even when Satan tempted Adam and Eve, and those in the days of Noah to become so evil, that he and the demons were in heaven with God?

I believe as John told what was to take place that he also mentioned what had already taken place- the whole story from beginning to end, and not in order, but switching from past and future often.

Hi PurerInHeart,

Satan and his angels still have access to heaven. When that 7th trumpet is sounded, that war will take place and for the first time since his original fall, Satan and his angels will no longer have access to heaven, which is reason for the following response:

"Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
“And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them!But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”


Satan's and his angels being cast out will be a cause for rejoicing for those in heaven, but a woe for those on the earth, because, since Satan will no longer have access to heaven to accuse believers day and night before God, he and his angels will be able to focus all of their malice and evil upon the inhabitants of the earth.

I believe as John told what was to take place that he also mentioned what had already taken place- the whole story from beginning to end, and not in order, but switching from past and future often.

Revelation 12:1-6 is a summary, where Revelation 12:7-17 is a detailed account of the same information. The woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars on her head is meant to reveal who the woman is and God does so by using the same symbolism of the sun, moon and stars as found in Gen.37:9-10. The dragon with the seven heads, ten horns and seven crowns are described in Rev.12:7-9 with the identity of the dragon as a whole being Satan and the stars representing his angels. The rest of the dragons characteristics are revealed in Rev.17.

The male child that the woman gives birth to is not representing Jesus, as many interpret it, but is a collective name for the 144,000, who are the first fruits out of Israel, who had been sealed in Rev.7. The reference to the woman/Israel giving birth to them is that, this will be a group that will come out of unbelieving Israel who will have recognized Jesus as their Messiah. This group is caught up to God and to His throne (Rev.12:5) and the woman/Israel, flees out into the wilderness to that place that God will have prepared for her where she will remain for that last 3 1/2 where at which time Christ returns to the earth to end the age (Matt.24:15-22, Rev.12:6, 14, 19:11-21).

So yes, the information is regarding the events that will take place in the future. The fleeing is caused by the setting up of that abomination in the holy place within the temple (Dan.9:27, Matt.24:15, Rev.13:14-15)

So even when Satan tempted Adam and Eve, and those in the days of Noah to become so evil, that he and the demons were in heaven with God?

Yes, we have scripture showing Satan appearing before God's throne with another group of angels, which is where he challenged God regarding Job. Here in Revelation, we have him accusing believers day and night before God, which again would have to be in God's presence. Regarding the days of Noah, many think that the reason for the flood was just that the people had become evil. But there is much more to why God flooded the earth then just that. The son's of God, those angels, took wives from the progeny of mankind and defiled themselves with them. And the result was the offspring of the angels, also referred to as the watchers of heaven. The result of angels, who are spiritual, and humans who are flesh, resulted in giants. Those angels also began to teach mankind about sorcery, astronomy, the dividing of roots and trees, the solution of sorcery, the motion of the moon and stars and many other things that mankind was not supposed to know and the world was corrupted because of all these things. This according to Genesis and the prophecies of Enoch, which some do not consider as scripture, but I do. In fact both Jesus and Jude quote from Enoch. Also, the prophecies of Enoch, this version called "Ethiopic Enoch" were once apart of the scriptures up until the 3rd century, of which I have my own copy.

 

[chips1024]

The antichrist spirit is the spirit of the Prince (Satan, Devil, Old Serpent, Red Dragon) that was prophesied to be cast down and to come ...
That verse also shows the spirit was already at work in the world when Paul said "now works" in the children of disobedience.

OK, I think I get you now sir (or madam not sure) with regard to when the war was...

What I understand you saying is:
Because the spirit is upon the earth and was already at work and still (now) works, the war has already been fought and satan has been thrown down - which is why the spirit now works (and worked) within man.

If that is correct, could you provide a statement for me as to your position on the war happening before creation or after creation was completed (ie: after the 7th day was complete).

thanks,
Chips1024

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello chips1024,

The antichrist spirit is the spirit of the Prince (Satan, Devil, Old Serpent, Red Dragon) that was prophesied to be cast down and to come ... That verse also shows the spirit was already at work in the world when Paul said "now works" in the children of disobedience."

The scripture that InSpiritInTruth is quoting from, is regarding the coming antichrist. The scripture in Rev.12:7 is regarding Satan himself and his angels being thrown out of heaven and restricted to the earth. He is misapplying scriptures that are unrelated. In that Scripture Paul is saying that the secret power of lawlessness is already at work and that there is coming a man of lawlessness, the antichirst. Again, that scripture that InSpiritInTruth quoted has nothing to do with the event of the 7th trumpet when Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven.


As I continue to proclaim, since trumpets 5, 6 and 7 are referred to as three woes and are in sequential order, you would have to have historical proof, some written record of the events that the 5th and 6th trumpets because they must take place before the 7th trumpet can happen. This is another typical case of misapplying other scriptures, while ignoring the context of the scripture in view. He's doing the same thing that the amillennialists do. Instead of believing what Rev.20:1-3 says at face value, they go to other scriptures such as PS.50:10 and apply that formula while ignoring the literal meaning.

This is also another case of not understanding the severity and magnitude of the coming wrath of God. Point being that you have reduced the severity of the 7th trumpet, as referred to as a "woe," down to something that doesn't even affect anyone, but the common deceptions of Satan that have always been here. In regards to the chronological order of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, regardless of the 5th and 6th trumpet, the trumpet judgments themselves can't take place until the 1st seal is opened and that hasn't happened yet! Revelation 4 onward are all future events, the things that must take place after the end of the church period.

I wish that people who don't know anything at all about Revelation would stop trying to teach it!

 

[AboundingGrace]

Concerning when satan was cast out of heaven.. some take the verse of Jesus seeing satan fall is speaking literally, but

I believe that Jesus could certainly have a vision of an event that is yet in future. And, that vision was shown, repeated in John's Revelation vision concerning that war in heaven, that in John's time had not taken place yet, nor in our time has it taken place yet.

Some read a verse of satan talking to God in heaven and think it refers to satan having access to the heaven where God resides.. like in Job, on one hand it may be possible for at that time the heavenly utensils had been contaminated by Adam's sin, therefore allowing access to the devil in heaven.

But, for the most part, I believe that the place of heaven where satan was cast out of was not the heaven where God, and Jesus at His right hand, and saints reside, and where we all have our hope to be with the Lord.

I believe that satan was cast out of that place when he rebelled and became the devil, having once been the anointed cherub that covers.

I believe that the heaven that satan resides in now, is that place that the apostle Paul described, the atmosphere surrounding the earth. So from that place he could direct his accusations of the brethren toward God in the higher heaven. The atmospheric heaven is as far-high as he can now go since Jesus was crucified and took his blood into the highest heaven and cleansed the utensils of the contamination from Adam's sin. Jesus blood applied is a no tread area concerning the devil. He no longer has free access to the highest heaven.

I believe that at a certain time in future, satan will be cast down from the atmospheric heaven unto the earth where his time will be short., and that in time he'll be cast into the abyss, and outer darkness. When Jesus ministered on the earth casting out demons, there were demons that said, "Do you cast us out before the time?" So they know that there's a particular time coming for them when they will be thoroughly powerless, thoroughly cast out.

So the picture of Lucifer-satan's abode begins in the highest heaven, and by degrees go down to the atmospheric heaven, then down to earth, then down to under the earth, then finally completely out and away, never to deceive or do evil to anyone again.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

OK, I think I get you now sir (or madam not sure) with regard to when the war was...

What I understand you saying is:
Because the spirit is upon the earth and was already at work and still (now) works, the war has already been fought and satan has been thrown down - which is why the spirit now works (and worked) within man.

If that is correct, could you provide a statement for me as to your position on the war happening before creation or after creation was completed (ie: after the 7th day was complete).

thanks,
Chips1024

We know by scripture that Satan could travel to and fro from heaven to earth before Jesus was crucified and resurrected, this is shown in the book of Job. But when Jesus conquered death that is when Jesus pronounced the judgment of this world and the Devil being cast out of heaven to earth. I showed this timing already in my first post, and also in this post->>>>

The man-child in this verse is Jesus being born and then caught to heaven to God after his resurrection->>>>>

Revelation 12:1-9 "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:[SUP]2 [/SUP]And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And she brought forth a man child, (Jesus) who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

This confirms the timing. Peace

 

[mpaper345]

The war in heaven took place during Jesus earthly ministry.

Satan/the dragon was cast out of heaven with 1/3 of the angels and they wander the earth seeking folks to destroy.

Correct amundo,but when Lucifer was kicked out of heaven the first time,he was not cast down to the earth where it became his holding cell,but the Bible says that he is the prince of the power of the air,where he has access to the first,and second heaven.

The second time he is kicked out of heaven,it is kicked out of the first heaven,and the second heaven,where he is no longer the prince of the power of the air,but the earth becomes the habitation of devils,which means it is their holding cell,which God allows Satan to possess the man of sin to deceive all people who do not love God.

12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

This was the first time Satan was kicked out of heaven,which Israel is protected for the first three and one half years of the 7 years period,for God is going to restore the kingdom to them,where all Gentile governments will collapse.

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience.

Satan is the prince of the power of the air.


[SUP]7 [/SUP]And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

[SUP]8 [/SUP]And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

This is the second time Satan was kicked out heaven,the first,and second heaven,and deceives all people who do not love God,by the beast kingdom,and Israel is protected for the last half of the 7 years period.


18 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

The earth becomes the devils holding cell,where they do not have power to roam the air anymore.


[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

[SUP]10 [/SUP]And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

[SUP]12 [/SUP]That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The devils are confined to the earth,where they deceive all people who do not love the truth,to followm the beast kingdom,and take the mark,where repentance is no longer available to them anymore.

Satan was kicked out of the third heaven,where God dwells,but has access to the first,and second heaven,and the devils will one day be kicked out of the entire realm of heaven,and be confined to this earth,and deceive all people who do not love God,because God is allowing them to have their way,for they will not turn to God after the 6 trumpets sound.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Correct amundo,but when Lucifer was kicked out of heaven the first time,he was not cast down to the earth where it became his holding cell,but the Bible says that he is the prince of the power of the air,where he has access to the first,and second heaven.

The second time he is kicked out of heaven,it is kicked out of the first heaven,and the second heaven,where he is no longer the prince of the power of the air,but the earth becomes the habitation of devils,which means it is their holding cell,which God allows Satan to possess the man of sin to deceive all people who do not love God.

12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

This was the first time Satan was kicked out of heaven,which Israel is protected for the first three and one half years of the 7 years period,for God is going to restore the kingdom to them,where all Gentile governments will collapse.

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience.

Satan is the prince of the power of the air.


[SUP]7 [/SUP]And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

[SUP]8 [/SUP]And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

This is the second time Satan was kicked out heaven,the first,and second heaven,and deceives all people who do not love God,by the beast kingdom,and Israel is protected for the last half of the 7 years period.


18 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

The earth becomes the devils holding cell,where they do not have power to roam the air anymore.


[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

[SUP]10 [/SUP]And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

[SUP]12 [/SUP]That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The devils are confined to the earth,where they deceive all people who do not love the truth,to followm the beast kingdom,and take the mark,where repentance is no longer available to them anymore.

Satan was kicked out of the third heaven,where God dwells,but has access to the first,and second heaven,and the devils will one day be kicked out of the entire realm of heaven,and be confined to this earth,and deceive all people who do not love God,because God is allowing them to have their way,for they will not turn to God after the 6 trumpets sound.

Hello Mpaper345 and Ariel,

I'll ask you the same thing that I did of InSpiritInTruth, Please provide proof of the first two woes, which are trumpets 5 and 6 that must take place prior to the 7th trumpet which is where the war in heaven takes place? And we know that the 5th and 6th trumpet must come first because of the following:

5th Trumpet/1st woe = Demonic beings let out of the Abyss to torment the inhabitants of the earth for five months with tails and stings like scorpions.

"The first woe is past; two other woes are yet to come"

6th Trumpet/2nd woe = A third of the inhabitants of the earth killed by the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates and their army of 200 million.

"The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon."

7th Trumpet/3rd woe = The war in heaven with Satan and his angels cast of heaven and restricted to the earth.

"But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his
time is short.”

Please show us the historical results of the 5th and 6th trumpets.

Thank you!