Could churches do better with unpaid pastors?

[Word_Swordsman]

I have seen many unpaid pastors do very well at leading churches: but it takes a person who is willing to serve selflessly. If a church decides to take this route, I suggest ordaining 2-4 ministers from within the qualified men in the church (as it seems to me was done in Acts) and letting them lead the church.

Serving without pay is difficult, and in my experience with such churches it works better to take a free will offering from the congregation once a month as a love gift for those men in leadership. It gives them some help, while at the same time they will need maybe 3-4 days work of "secular" work. But having several ministers makes this feasible as one man does not have all the responsibility or authority

Hmmm, so you propose having multiple pastor positions from among the men of the congregation, but not let one of them earn his living from preaching the gospel, ministering without a living from the gospel, while you are out earning a living?

Since it's your idea, opposed to God's plan (Jesus our Lord ordained the scriptural way in 1 Cor 9:14), be sure you be the first to volunteer to help fill the pastoral ministry, assuming you are called to that office by God.

What you might be thinking about Acts is the assignment of deacons to wait tables while Peter and the other apostles tended to the spiritual things.

Will you find that many men in the congregation that are called to that ministry? If called, then why not already somewhere filling that office? How many pastors have arisen from your congregation, called of God? Your pastors will serve, but only get to earn a living 3-4 days a week, then hope a monthly gift will make up the gap? What man with a family would be comfortable risking that move from his 5 day a week job, when apparently they do so on the strength of an unbiblical denominational church doctrine? If leaving a 5 day a week job, who would hire him at the same skill for 3-4 days?

Many questions not needful of answers, but for simple consideration.

I will believe and agree with what the Lord has ordained. His plans are always best. Satan is the one who would of course defy the plan of God, with the intent of shutting down yet another church, leaving the sheep scattered and starving.

Sheep feeding is a sign of love for Jesus and sheep. It isn't a task for a novice.

 

[Sirk]

What is it about God's instructions that christians fail to comprehend?

What NT scripture supports the idea of the single, salared, self exalted pastor? Dont bother looking. There is none.

I'm not sure where the "self exalted" comes into play. Seems that you're taking liberties with the conditions of peoples hearts that you haven't even met.

 

[HisHolly]

If money doesn't matter why does anyone care who has it? God supplies right? Does their abundance take from you?

 

[p_rehbein]

Since some CC members have complaints about modern day churches, I'd like to put the following question: Could churches do better if they had unpaid rather than salaried pastors? I've seen some unpaid pastors preach; some of them were really guided by the Holy Spirit while others did a poor job due to lack of Bible knowledge. The upside of not being paid is that ministers have more freedom to preach the narrow way, but what's the downside?

Don't see why the unpaid would have more freedom to preach the Gospel than the ones compensated. Both are subject to being criticized by the Congregation. You might be surprised to know that only a small percent of the Pastors in America are compensated at a rate that allows them to ONLY FOCUS on being the Pastor/Preacher for their Congregation. The majority of them have to work outside the Church to support themselves and their families. And, I assure you, this does take away from their being able to fulfill all their duties as Pastor/Preacher. However, with a good support group of Elders and a loving Congregation, they can all work together to accomplish the needed Ministries.

 

[p_rehbein]

The downside is what you r still suggesting, paid or not paid, that a single exalted man with the honorific title is still in play, still looked to for most, if not all, 'ministering'.

And we, who have complaints about the babylonian travesty warmly, but falsely, called church, have good reason for being the 'resistance'.
See my threads. Im getting writers cramp.

Oh geezzzzee, sigh.......

I honestly do not believe you have ever spent time traveling around the country, visiting various Congregations, meeting their Pastors, and TRULY LEARNING what these dedicated men and women of God go through on a daily basis. Your skewed vision of EXALTED PERSONS is so very far off base from reality, that it becomes tiring, very tiring.

Are SOME Pastors/Preachers as you describe? Sure........are ALL of them that way? NO. So, cut 'em some slack and get off that self righteous podium and give them credit for the hard work they do "feeding His flock," and ministering as they are called to do.

 

[p_rehbein]

I think Churches would be better off without mandatory tithing at least. I have seen that system abused to extreme extents. I do not see a problem with the congregation paying or donating to a pastor in and of itself though.

I actually agree that MANDATORY TITHING is not a good thing...........however, TITHING is NOT a bad or evil thing. Tithing is between the person and God, and that is the way my church deals with the situation of Tithing.

 

[p_rehbein]

Why is it that he gets to enjoy ministering when others with gifts and callings dont get to.

I bet he loves that weekly paycheck to for that 40 minute, 7 point sermon.

See my first response to your first comment. Truly, Yet, you have not the slightest concept of what the average Pastor has to do each and every day. I hope God takes away the hate in your heart, for I don't see how anyone can be a productive servant of God with that much hate in their heart. You could be such a productive and positive influence if you would just get over yourself, and your hatred.

 

[p_rehbein]

I have not seen one yet that doesnt push the false, dibilitating tithe.

Well, you ACTUALLY have to leave your home, GET OUT into the real world, and visit the various congregational churches around the country. That throne of self righteousness you spend your days sitting on IS NOT a true representation of the world ya know.

 

[p_rehbein]

Analyzing the life of thee apostle Paul , preaching truth in Christ, also worked with his hands.



Shalom

He ALSO accepted financial compensation to support his ministry. just saying

 

[p_rehbein]

Hmm... Let me think, the downsides of not being paid for doing countless hours of work (well beyond the 9-5 week days of average folks) and probably having a family to look after. Let me think. Hmmm...

Makes you wonder how many of them go to work every day and tell their Boss...........Hey, DON'T PAY ME, I work for free.

 

[bikerchaz]

There is one Church. There is one to whom the Church belongs. Paul went round setting up Jesus Church all over the Mediterranean. Everywhere he stopped he sought out fellow believers and where he didn't find any he preached and set some up.

He did not leave and move on to the next one (unless he was forced out) like the modern evangelists do, until it was able to stand without him. Paul was a tent maker, he never took anything from any of the congregations he installed for Jesus in the way of payment. Paul was quite verbal about that and it was a matter of pride he did not, because he boasted about God's provision for his work coming through God's own hands.

Paul also knew how "Church" worked, Jesus provided everything needed for the smooth running of the gathering of the groups of saints. Elders were set up who's conduct in life gave them respect from others. The holy Spirit gave to each as was needed after that, teachers, healers, prophets, interpretors of tongues, carers etc. All the free gifts of the Holy Spirit, all the fruits of these gifts enabled these Churches to flourish as their members grew into maturity.

And as each house was filled another was started and that was filled and another one was started and so it went on. Church as a building was not bought in until Constantine forced the Roman world to take on Christianity, then the former priests took up Jesus or at the least lost their jobs. From that time on the purity of what the Church was, was lost as it became Jobs and wealth making social elitism within the structure of a building that was "temple" and was now "a church".

One person was never meant to do all this stuff that pastors now do, The roll of a pastor is defined by the word, pastor, shepherds is a good one, teachers another, with Jesus at the helm, leading through His Spirit. May be it is because we do not trust Jesus to rule His own Church that we don't try and do it as it was first done, may be?

The thought of one man running everything was as alien to the first groups of saints as mobile phones would have been. But we are where we are in history, our church system even the more unethical church systems are still that, a system installed by a church planter, so the church can come under the authority of a system that works. Does it work? Didn't the system that churches set up years ago work for a time them they fell empty and silent, sold of for real estate.

Now we are doing it again Mega church, so rich they have the money to go on TV and preach. Or Just church, not mega ones, just corner of the street ones, but while a "pastor" who is on fire for God sits there and does for all it works to a degree, but no one grows to fill the roles that were once filled by the spirit gifted, so when the pastor leaves or dies the church then looks for another to fill his place instead of letting or trusting Jesus provide from within.

Not done on purpose that way, but because we have never let Jesus rule and don't know how to let Him do it. It is Jesus folks, not a comic book hero, Jesus. The author and finisher of our faith! He wrote the book, He made all. Heavens earth you and me all the animals, fish, He knows what everything needs, and it is His Church, He knows what it needs and what will bring life, its Him at the centre. All the pastors, elders, interpreters all the gifted with Holy spirit gifts, the whole church works with Jesus at the centre, the Focus, the core.

We come home from church and say "sermon was a good one today" why come home, why not in your home and after the anointing we can say "Jesus moved with so and so, did you feel this or that, The vision was this or that and Jesus is really at the centre". This is what is in my heart for the Church. When God moves with His Spirit and "churches" can't cope with the numbers I pray these other ways of "being Church" will come into their own. I pray church leaders will not impose their systems and stifle the Spirit of God (the consequences of that is to much to comprehend).

We need Jesus vision for His church, not our church system, and the love for Him and faith in Him for Jesus Himself to pastor His Church, His bride, and the wisdom for us to let go and let God.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

One person was never meant to do all this stuff that pastors now do, The roll of a pastor is defined by the word, pastor, shepherds is a good one, teachers another, with Jesus at the helm, leading through His Spirit. May be it is because we do not trust Jesus to rule His own Church that we don't try and do it as it was first done, may be?

Basically all that shepherds did/do is watch the flock to protect it while it does its job of feeding itself, guide it to new pasture if necessary, and tend to the injured.

 

[JennaLeanne]

I think if we all stick to the truth of the Gospel and look at how the early church functioned then all this disputing and opinion on how a church should be ran would be non existent... God can call anyone in any situation to deliver his message. Wether they are paid or unpaid.. Wealthy or poor.. As children of God we are all one and those who have more than the other should give what they have to support those around them...

If your church has a pastor that dedicates his time from a genuine heart and had struggles then yes, the congregation should give to him accordingly.. The same goes for the old lady sat at the back or the young mum with three kids.. That's the spirit of Love.. Nothing we have now or in the future hadn't been given to us that doesn't belong to God.

I think God can use a man with a full time job just as much as a man who believes his calling is full time ministry.

Remember we are all at different places. The pastor that has a family with a full time job who looks tired and needs rest has just as much of God to tell as a person who spends more time in his bible.. We live in a world that requires us to be active... Some can't just sit and read the word all day.. God meets us where we are in our everyday situations and he will use that for his glory just as much as he will use a full time pastor.

Let's not forget there are many different giftings but all are from the same spirit. xxxx

 

[Tintin]

I think if we all stick to the truth of the Gospel and look at how the early church functioned then all this disputing and opinion on how a church should be ran would be non existent... God can call anyone in any situation to deliver his message. Wether they are paid or unpaid.. Wealthy or poor.. As children of God we are all one and those who have more than the other should give what they have to support those around them...

If your church has a pastor that dedicates his time from a genuine heart and had struggles then yes, the congregation should give to him accordingly.. The same goes for the old lady sat at the back or the young mum with three kids.. That's the spirit of Love.. Nothing we have now or in the future hadn't been given to us that doesn't belong to God.

I think God can use a man with a full time job just as much as a man who believes his calling is full time ministry.

Remember we are all at different places. The pastor that has a family with a full time job who looks tired and needs rest has just as much of God to tell as a person who spends more time in his bible.. We live in a world that requires us to be active... Some can't just sit and read the word all day.. God meets us where we are in our everyday situations and he will use that for his glory just as much as he will use a full time pastor.

Let's not forget there are many different giftings but all are from the same spirit. xxxx

I don't think you understand. Being a pastor is pretty much a 24/7 job. To think one can have a full-time job and be a pastor is grossly misunderstanding how much work is involved in being a pastor.

 

[JennaLeanne]

I don't think you understand. Being a pastor is pretty much a 24/7 job. To think one can have a full-time job and be a pastor is grossly misunderstanding how much work is involved in being a pastor.

I understand what you are saying and I suppose it depends on the congregation size... The pastor of my church that was worked also because the church wasn't able to pay for her living... It isn't that i don't understand it's more the fact that we should look at this from our hearts... I don't think to be a pastor is a career.... If we read 1 corinth 9 11-18 you will see that Paul is saying that it's OK to claim a living from the Gospel but that he didn't take advantage of that... I definetly don't think there should be just one way we see this xx

 

[notuptome]

Acts 6:2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.

Seems like the apostles were not against being supported financially in the ministry.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[crossnote]

1 Timothy 5:18 KJVS
[18] For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Fine and good, but when I see the ox take three or four ocean cruises a year and living way above the other cattle, it's time for me to moo-ve on

 

[notuptome]

1 Timothy 5:18 KJVS
[18] For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Fine and good, but when I see the ox take three or four ocean cruises a year and living way above the other cattle, it's time for me to moo-ve on

Ro 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

God knows the hearts. Those who would make merchandise of the children of God do so at great peril. Honor to whom honor is just and judgment to whom judgment is due.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[KenAllan]

How would you like it if some people came to you demanding that you not be paid for working for a company? If Pastors should be forced to work for free then why not you also work for free for your boss?

Why do you need to be payed for your work? Are you any better than a Pastor?

If people demand Pastors be not paid for their work, then these same people need to tell their bosses that they will also work for free!

 

[Word_Swordsman]

I understand what you are saying and I suppose it depends on the congregation size... The pastor of my church that was worked also because the church wasn't able to pay for her living... It isn't that i don't understand it's more the fact that we should look at this from our hearts... I don't think to be a pastor is a career.... If we read 1 corinth 9 11-18 you will see that Paul is saying that it's OK to claim a living from the Gospel but that he didn't take advantage of that... I definetly don't think there should be just one way we see this xx

Tiny church congregations are almost always insignificant towards gospel effectiveness outside their own homes, compared to larger well organized churches. The small church pastors I know, about 70 of them, that work a secular job for a living come home as tired as anyone else doing that, with little or no energy to tend to family and tend to serious ministry. They mostly tend to funerals. There's no way around that for one's congregation.

It's a matter of how many masters one serves, among other matters. If your work week is spent making a living, when and by what means could anyone work significantly as leader of a church like disciples of John the Baptist, apostle John, Paul, Peter, et.al, some of whom according to Paul led their siblings/wife/others along the evangel trail.

If we work for an employer we must give all to him as unto the Lord. That means pastoral work must wait. With 450 church members with thousands of needs a year, and opportunities to serve one's community for Christ arising daily, the primary church leader (pastor) needs to be available full time. Not having someone in that capacity usually results in discordination, confusion, and overlapped/duplicated services, such as feeding people from many pantries such they can pawn or trade excess food for drugs, alcohol, or tobacco. Pastors here coordinate all services through an alliance website, which is growing the list of needy faster than leaving that to individual congregation efforts. That way the truly needy are tended to first.

A congregation of 25 elderly Christians where nobody has been saved or baptized in the last 30 years probably only needs a one-hour a week preacher to volunteer Sundays on rotation with other retired preachers.

I don't know of any "self-exalted" pastor in real life. I do know some who have stopped taking a salary from their congregations since they have marketed popular books that lets them prosper, instead contributing back to their congregations in very significant ways. That's inspiring other pastors to consider a way to produce something with their own hands like Paul could. In my own situation I wasn't satisfied to just tithe on my retirement income, so asked the Lord to give me some idea to work so I could tithe from the work of my hands. He answered and blessed, leaving most of my time free to minister somewhere, always teaching Bible or lay preaching somewhere at least once weekly. I know not to try expanding that to require hiring a staff, once again serving another master.