The Holy Inquisitions Killed Millions or Only Thousands?

[Marcelo]

I once took part in a long discussion about the Holy Inquisitions. One of the forum members - an enthusiatic Catholic lady - claimed that the inquisitors weren't so mean as we think, and that they killed only a few thousands of people. She added that the inquisitors were highly educated people and torture was limited to 30 minutes (I wouldn't bear 30 seconds).

How can we know the truth? Thousands or millions? I think even one person is too many!

 

[RobbyEarl]

Catholic, once thought that by force they could make people serve God. It's a choice and a freewill and it was wrong and not of God.

 

[Mec99]

Even 1 second of torturing a person puts that person in the Lake of Fire! Much less the MURDER of that person.

1 John 3:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

Every Catholic that MURDERED a person will spend all Eternity in the Lake of Fire. They may have thought they were doing right but every person who commits murder cannot enter into Heaven.

 

[trofimus]

I once took part in a long discussion about the Holy Inquisitions. One of the forum members - an enthusiatic Catholic lady - claimed that the inquisitors weren't so mean as we think, and that they killed only a few thousands of people. She added that the inquisitors were highly educated people and torture was limited to 30 minutes (I wouldn't bear 30 seconds).

How can we know the truth? Thousands or millions? I think even one person is too many!

Numbers differ, its a past and we cannot know for sure. But it does not matter, I cant imagine Christ or apostles torturing unbelieving Greeks, Jews or Romans for "just 30 minutes" to accept the gospel.

The roman church was disgusting in her deeds and is still disgusting in her teachings.

 

[wincam]

Numbers differ, its a past and we cannot know for sure. But it does not matter, I cant imagine Christ or apostles torturing unbelieving Greeks, Jews or Romans for "just 30 minutes" to accept the gospel.

The roman church was disgusting in her deeds and is still disgusting in her teachings.

guess what it was preceded by and superceded by - for better or worse - frying pan or fire - two wrongs don't make it right - wincam

 

[jaybird88]

there have been plenty of non catholic inquisitions.
nobody should be forced against their will to join the faith. they should be given the same free will our Lord gives us.

 

[trofimus]

guess what it was preceded by and superceded by - for better or worse - frying pan or fire - two wrongs don't make it right - wincam

third wrong does not make it right neither.

 

[trofimus]

there have been plenty of non catholic inquisitions.
nobody should be forced against their will to join the faith. they should be given the same free will our Lord gives us.

God can force us, man can not.

 

[breno785au]

Catholic, once thought that by force they could make people serve God. It's a choice and a freewill and it was wrong and not of God.

By force and/or manipulation.

 

[jaybird88]

God can force us, man can not.

the more than five thousand cathars of Beziers france that were massacred in 1209 might not agree with that. more than half of them were women and children.

 

[mpaper345]

I once took part in a long discussion about the Holy Inquisitions. One of the forum members - an enthusiatic Catholic lady - claimed that the inquisitors weren't so mean as we think, and that they killed only a few thousands of people. She added that the inquisitors were highly educated people and torture was limited to 30 minutes (I wouldn't bear 30 seconds).

How can we know the truth? Thousands or millions? I think even one person is too many!

The way I look at it,it does not matter the amount of people,or the time limit,they still did wrong,which Jesus said do not fight for the kingdom of God,by physical force,which He told the disciple that smote the High Priests servants ear,to put up the sword,for he that uses the sword,shall perish with the sword.

They try to justify their wrongful actions by saying,it was not that bad,and for a limited time,which is no justification at all.

But do not believe the limited time of torture,for that does not even make sense,for if they are going to torture for 30 minutes,trying to get them to go by their position,it would seem like they would not stop until they finally went by their position,or were dead.

Oh,we will only torture you for 30 minutes,and if you still do not agree with us,we will let you go,but they were so bent on wiping out all who oppose their position,you think that is true,for if they are going to use torture methods to persuade people to go by their position,they will not limit it,and if there was a 30 minutes time limit of torture,and they still opposed them,they would be dead.

If you are kind,you are kind,and there is no time limit on that,and if they are in to torture,they are in to torture,there is no time limit on that,and they are not going to let people go,for there is a certain way they want things done for the name of the Holy Roman Empire,and if you do not comply,you are tortured,and if you do not comply,you die,for if they would let you go after 30 minutes,why did they detain you in the first place,and why would they allow you to run around opposing them after the 30 minutes,running around opposing them,for which they pick people up to torture them in the first place.

You oppose them,and when tortured you oppose them,you die.They are not going to have you running around opposing them,for which they picked you up in the first place.

So the torture limit is 30 minutes,and if you do not agree with them,you die.

The Roman Catholic Church did wrong,and was not the will of God,but what do you expect when you are ruling with the cruel Roman Empire,they made Christianity a cruel system,pushing for power,like the Roman Empire.

But all nations push for power,it just happened that they had the power at that time.

And you are right,even one person is too much,but if they have that attitude they are not going to only go against one person.

They will go against as many people as they can with that attitude,whoever they can get to,so millions,thousands,does not apply,for they will go against as many people as they can,so they are just as guilty as going against one person,as going against the whole world that opposed them,and God said however a person thinks that is how they are.

The Holy Roman Empire is guilty back at that time as going against the whole world,that opposed them,so numbers does not matter,the thing is they just could not get to them,but if they could they would of persecuted them all,disobeying Jesus' love and kindness for the world.

That does not make sense,it was only a 30 minutes torture period,and they only killed thousands of people,because they had the attitude to go against all who oppose them,and would of tortured,and killed,all who oppose them,so if that were true,that it was only a limited amount of people,it was only because they could not get to them,not because they were not that bad,that they only went against thousands.

They went against all who opposed them,with cruelty,and wrath,not doing the will of God,and with that attitude,there is no limit in torture,unless they did not want to spend any more time in torturing them,and went against as many people that opposed them,as they could get their non loving Jesus hands on,all the while they thought they were doing the will of God.

Oh,how people can severely mess up the true intention of God,and His truth,but that is all fleshy.

 

[Marcelo]

mpaper345

The way I look at it,it does not matter the amount of people,or the time limit,they still did wrong,which Jesus said do not fight for the kingdom of God,by physical force,which He told the disciple that smote the High Priests servants ear,to put up the sword,for he that uses the sword,shall perish with the sword.


We told the Catholic lady (referred to at the top of this thread) that killing thousands of people is just as evil as killing millions. She argued that there is a big difference between thousands and millions. She said: "If the RCC had killed millions, rather than thousands, then that would mean that the whole Church was corrupt. But since the inquisitors killed 'only' a few thousands, over a period of 700 years, that means only a very small portion of the Catholic Church was involved in the killing". That is to say, the great majority of Catholic priests were praying all the time and didn't even know about the killing.The lady's intention was to prove that the RCC has always been holy.

 

[Mec99]

It was the Pope at that time that declared these people needed to be to killed. It does not matter if the Pope wanted 1 person or 1,000,000,000,000 people killed, its still a sin that will keep these Catholics from entering into Heaven.

 

[VernonFrancis]

Once the church married the state and used the states power to persecute those who refused to believe as the church demanded the church fell from grace.

It it is not only the rcc which is fallen, nations full of Christians have taken up arms and warred against others, often times other Christians. Even Protestants have persecuted those who refuse to submit to their ideology.

Until the church divorces the world, we will remain fallen.

just a thought.

 

[Bigbruce]

Protestants have long since forgotten that they came from protest-----ants. The Roman Catholic church set out to destroy all protestants.
There own records at the vatican revealed 68,000,000 killed. From 1540 to 1600.
Reference Vatican Assassin. Auther eric Phelps.

 

[Marcelo]

The Inquisitions according to the Catholics:

50-68 Million” Killed in the Inquisition?

August 21, 2015 by Dave Armstrong 11 Comments

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Apologetics (defending Catholicism and sometimes general Christianity) is usually very fun. I love my work, but at times it is maddeningly frustrating. This very week I had an experience that provides an opportunity to clarify some relevant historical facts about the Inquisition (actually, there were several Inquisitions).Non-Catholic Christians and the secular world have used the Inquisitions, the Crusades, and the Galileo incident, as “clubs” to bash the Church for almost 500 years. I did so myself, in my Protestant apologist days. But such critics almost invariably distort the known facts in order to do so.A Reformed Protestant apologist and specialist in Islam referred on his website to “the Inquisition where an estimated 50-68 million people were killed by Rome.” Those were quite fantastic alleged numbers (to put it mildly and charitably), seeing that the entire population of Europe at its height in the Middle Ages is thought by scholars to have been maybe 100-120 million.That would mean that the Church killed as many people as the Black Death (Bubonic Plague), which wiped out about a third to half the population. I replied: “Please tell me the name of reputable historians who assert such an absolutely ridiculous figure.”He said that he knew of an Internet article that he couldn’t locate, by one David A. Plaisted: who turned out to be a professor of computer science; not an academic historian at all. But when pressed, my friend offered no actual historian to back up his assertion and quickly descended (as so often in these sorts of “discussions”) to mere insults and evasive tactics. Before I was banned from his site, I produced for him (upon being challenged to do so) two (non-Catholic) professors of history with vastly different opinions.Edward Peters, from the University of Pennsylvania, is the author of Inquisition (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1989). Henry Kamen, a Fellow of the Royal Historical Society and professor at the University of Wisconsin – Madison, wrote The Spanish Inquisition: A Historical Revision (New Haven: Yale University Press, 4th revised edition, 2014).These two books are in the forefront of an emerging, very different perspective on the Inquisitions: an understanding that they were exponentially less inclined to issue death penalties than had previously been commonly assumed, and also quite different in character and even essence than the longstanding anti-Catholic stereotypes would have us believe.On page 87 of his book, Dr. Peters states: “The best estimate is that around 3000 death sentences were carried out in Spain by Inquisitorial verdict between 1550 and 1800, a far smaller number than that in comparable secular courts.” Likewise, Dr. Kamen states in his book:Taking into account all the tribunals of Spain up to about 1530, it is unlikely that more than two thousand people were executed for heresy by the Inquisition. (p. 60). . . it is clear that for most of its existence that Inquisition was far from being a juggernaut of death either in intention or in capability. . . . it would seem that during the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries fewer than three people a year were executed in the whole of the Spanish monarchy from Sicily to Peru, certainly a lower rate than in any provincial court of justice in Spain or anywhere else in Europe. (p. 203)Huge myths obviously abound. But does this mean that I “defend” capital punishment for heresy, or that all Catholics should? No; personally, I advocate the tolerant practices of the early Church and how Catholics generally view such things today. Yet I think it’s also supremely important to properly and accurately understand the Inquisitions in the context of their times (the Middle Ages and early modern periods).In those eras, almost all Christians (not just Catholics; minus only a few small groups like Anabaptists and Quakers) believed in both corporal and capital punishment for heresy, because they thought that heresy was far more dangerous to a person and society than physical disease was. Their premise, at least, was exactly right, as far as it goes: heresy can land one in hell; no disease could ever do that. How to deal with heresy is a separate, and very complex question.Some Protestants, however, exercise a glaring double standard in condemning only the Catholic Church for engaging in this practice, and grotesquely exaggerating by positing ludicrous numbers; even desperately enlisting non-historians to bolster their uninformed views.This being the case, it must be noted that Protestants (including Luther, Calvin, the early English Protestants, Zwingli, Melanchthon et al) have a very long and troubling list of “scandals” and “inquisitions” as well. As just one example among many, Martin Luther and John Calvin both sanctioned the execution of Anabaptists due to their belief in adult baptism, which they considered to be “sedition.” Thousands of Catholics in England and Ireland were executed (often in very hideous ways) simply for being Catholics and worshiping as their ancestors had done for 1500 years.Thus, it is clear that the notion of the death penalty for heresy was largely a product of the Middle Ages, and the Protestants who came at the end of that period did not, for the most part, dissent from it at all. In fact, the execution of reputed “witches” was almost entirely a Protestant phenomenon (as in the famous Salem Witch trials). To utterly ignore these facts, while condemning the Catholic Church, is to engage in dishonest historical revisionism.
See also: Inquisition, Crusades, and “Catholic Scandals”and Protestantism: Historic Persecution and Intolerance

 

[NarrowRoadDisciple]

Honestly, the Inquisition was a Catholic atrocity. They not only killed Jews and Muslims, but also Christians who would not bow to the papacy. The Inquisition was neither Holy nor Christian.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Honestly, the Inquisition was a Catholic atrocity. They not only killed Jews and Muslims, but also Christians who would not bow to the papacy. The Inquisition was neither Holy nor Christian.

And the office of the pope and RCC's agenda has been to get the power back that they once had to bring everyone under the pope's and the RCC's authority, which will be made possible when that antichrist is revealed. And peoples allegiance will be forced and mandatory during that last seven years with the consequences being the same as those during the inquisitions and worse.


"I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints."

 

[peacenik]

I once took part in a long discussion about the Holy Inquisitions. One of the forum members - an enthusiatic Catholic lady - claimed that the inquisitors weren't so mean as we think, and that they killed only a few thousands of people. She added that the inquisitors were highly educated people and torture was limited to 30 minutes (I wouldn't bear 30 seconds).

How can we know the truth? Thousands or millions? I think even one person is too many!

We will never know the full truth as many victims (my ancestors among them) died after the torment and were not directly attributed to the brutal inquisition authorities. Nor does it account for those Judios who died while they were exiled into strange lands (many died on the slave ships en route overseas). This is a shameful period in history. No amount of "apologies" can relieve the pain it caused.

People like Junipero Serra used the same tactics which caused deaths to Native Americans in the "New World". These have not historically been attributed to the Inquisition. The actual number of deaths are very high but unknown.

 

[Marcelo]

Ahwatukee[/B];2639617]And the office of the pope and RCC's agenda has been to get the power back that they once had to bring everyone under the pope's and the RCC's authority, which will be made possible when that antichrist is revealed. And peoples allegiance will be forced and mandatory during that last seven years with the consequences being the same as those during the inquisitions and worse.


"I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints."

That's what I see here in Brazil - some Catholic priests are working hard on it.