King of the North and King of the South

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NicholasJM

Guest
#1
Okay. My wife and me are in this theological debate on who the King of the North and King of the South is as stated in the book of Daniel. She says that the King of the North is going to be Germany. I disagree with her her because I do see any reference in the Bible that the King of the North is Germany. At least we both agree that the King of the South is a nation in the middle East.

So who is the King of the North and South that Daniel speaks of in Daniel 11:40?

Thanks for your help!
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,213
2,548
113
#2
I have to admit I do not yet have the insight and understanding to know I read from Daniel 9 to the end of Daniel 11 I asked God to give me the insight and understanding to read and know the truth of the matter and I believe he will at the appointed time when he decides it is time for me to understand the truth.

As it is now it is far to easy to miss the truth due to interpretation and so I wait
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#3
Okay. My wife and me are in this theological debate on who the King of the North and King of the South is as stated in the book of Daniel. She says that the King of the North is going to be Germany. I disagree with her her because I do see any reference in the Bible that the King of the North is Germany. At least we both agree that the King of the South is a nation in the middle East.

So who is the King of the North and South that Daniel speaks of in Daniel 11:40?

Thanks for your help!
The King of the North and the King of the South (spoken of in Daniel) were kings during the intertestamental period (between the Old and New Testaments). They're no longer future prophecies. But at the time of Daniel they were future prophecies. Germany isn't mentioned in the Bible (besides Ashkenaz, one of Noah's grandsons, being the Hebrew name for Germany).
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
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#4
The King of the North and the King of the South (spoken of in Daniel) were kings during the intertestamental period (between the Old and New Testaments). They're no longer future prophecies. But at the time of Daniel they were future prophecies. Germany isn't mentioned in the Bible (besides Ashkenaz, one of Noah's grandsons, being the Hebrew name for Germany).
Yeah I believe the two kings were the Seleucid rulers of Egypt and Assyria. If I remember correctly, the prophecy matches up pretty well with history.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
#5
The King of the North and the King of the South (spoken of in Daniel) were kings during the intertestamental period (between the Old and New Testaments). They're no longer future prophecies. But at the time of Daniel they were future prophecies. Germany isn't mentioned in the Bible (besides Ashkenaz, one of Noah's grandsons, being the Hebrew name for Germany).
There's a remarkable correlation between Daniel 11:30 and Antiochus' (king of the north) aborted invasion of Egypt (king of the south) in 168 BC after ships bearing Roman emissaries arrived and informed Antiochus that if he continued, Rome would enter the battle against him. He complied and returned north in great wrath, which he took out on Judea and Jerusalem with his abominations. Chittim refers to the area of Italy and Greece.

For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant. Daniel 11:30
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
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Alabama
#6
I do not normally post material written by others but this was written by a colleague of mine some years ago whose area of expertise was ancient history and OT history, particularly in Ezekiel and Daniel, and the history of the Pharaohs. I made some minor contributions to this but the work belongs to the late Ted Stuart, a good man and a good friend.

DANIEL ELEVEN

By Ted Stewart

Historical outline of the events of Daniel chapter 11

I. Four Kings Were Foreseen, 1-2. Cyrus is the ruling king in Persia during the time of Daniel, 536-529 BC.
A. The first three - "Behold, three more kings are going to arise in Persia."

1. Cambyses - 529-522 BC - He conquered Egypt in 525 BC
2. Pseudo-Smerdis (Gaumata) 522 BC. He murdered his brother and seized the throne but only reigned for 7 months. He does not appear to be one considered as one of the three hence the preface "Pseudo".
3. Darius I - 521-485 BC - It is under Darius I that Ezra rebuilds the Temple, Ezra 6:1-14.
4. Xerxes (Ahasuerus) - 485-464 BC

* He is the husband of Esther, Ezra 4:6.
* Israel threatened with extermination but was saved through the intervention of Esther.
* Xerxes warred against Greece and was defeated at Salamis in 480 BC. Verse 2 specifically predicts this war saying "he will arouse the whole empire against the realm of Greece."

B. The fourth king (Alexander the Great) would be stronger, more powerful, richer, greater, and more expansive than all of his predecessors. Alexander would later use the war of Xerxes to justify his own attack against Persia when he sets to conquer the world.

II. The Grecian Empire, 3-6
A. The rise of Alexander the great - "Then a mighty king will arise, and he will rule with great authority and do as he pleases."

1. The kingdom of this great king would then be divided after him among four different kings. We know this did not apply to any Persian king because the Persian Empire was never divided until the death of Alexander the Great.
2. The fourth king would be Grecian because verse 2 says that it was Greece whom Persia would attack.
3. This kingdom would be parceled out and to the four points of the compass. According to verse four, no portion of this kingdom would be given to any descendant of this great king. As Daniel 8:22 reveals, this king who is represented as a "broken horn" is replaced by four rulers. History confirms the fact that Alexander was murdered at the 33 years of age and his only son was murdered. Alexander's four generals then divided the Roman Empire into four separate empires.

a. Ptolemy over Egypt
b. Seleucus over Syria
c. Lysimachus over Asia Minor
d. Cassander over Macedonia.

B. Seleucus 312-281 - Established the Seleucid Empire mentioned in verse 5.

1. "The king of the south" - Seleucis of Egypt is the king of the south of verse 8.
2. "One of his princes" - This was Seleucus' general who fought against the other kings to conquer Antigonus, another of Alexander's generals who had formerly expelled Seleucus from Babylon and took over Seleucus portion of the kingdom. Seleucus then fled to Egypt where Ptolemy made him general of his army.
3. When Antigonus was defeated in 312 BC, Seleucus is given Syria, Palestine, and Babylon ant this Egypt's "Prince" became a king.
4. Seleucus and his successors eventually spread the kingdom from the north to the far-east making it a kingdom far greater in size than that of Egypt.
5. Since the Seneucid king established his capital in Syria he became known as the "King of the north," verse 7.

C. Alliance between Egypt and Syria, verse 6 - "After some years they will form an alliance."

1. Ptolemy II (son of Ptolemy I) reigned over Egypt from 283- 250 BC.

a. Ptolemy fights against Antichus I, son of Seleucus in 275 BC but, the war ends in a deadlock. In 261 BC Antiochus I died and was succeeded by his son Antiochus II.
b. Ptolemy II then goes to war against Antiochus II. In 252 BC, in order to create peace between the two nations, Ptolemy II gave his daughter Berenice in marriage to Antiochus II. She was "the daughter of the King of the South" mentioned in verse 6 who came to the king of the north to "carry out a peaceful arrangement."
c. Ptolemy dies two years later.

2. Antiochus II (grandson of Seleucus I) reigns over Syria from 261 to 246 BC.

a. In order to accept Berneice as his new wife, and to please the King of Egypt, Antiochus II divorces his wife Laodice who had born him two sons.
b. When Ptolemy II died two years later in 252 BC, Antiochus divorced Berenice and returned to his first wife Laodice and Berenice did not "retain her position of power," verse 6.
c. Laodice had Berenice, Antiochus and their infant son murdered in 246 BC placing her own son (Seleucus II) on the throne. Thus, "nor will he retain his power," verse 6.
d. Thus, all of Ptolemy's plans to make peace with Syria ended in disaster - "she will be given up, along with those who brought her in (Egypt) and the one who sired her (Ptolemy II) as well as he who supported her in those times." I am not sure just who this refers to. Could it be Antiochus II?

III. Continual War between Egypt and Syria, 7-8

A. "One of the descendants of her line will arise in his place."

1.According to Keil, this is more accurately understood as "a branch of her root," not one of her own descendants, in other words, a sibling. Ptolemy III, son of Antiochus II and brother of Berenice succeeds Antiochus II as king over Syria from 246-222.
2. Ptolemy III invades Syria and wins the battle - "He will come against their armies and enter the fortress of the king of the north and he will deal with them and display his great strength. Also their gods with their metal images and their precious vessels of silver and gold he will take into captivity to Egypt,"

a. During this battle, Ptolemy III kills Laodice avenging the murder of his sister Berenice and her son.
b. Later, Ptolemy III returns to Egypt for a time of peace - "and he on his part will refrain from attacking the king of the North for some years."

B. Seleucus II - 246-226 BC, verse 9

1. Seleucuc continued to reign over Syria even though he lost the battle against Ptolemy III.
2. He makes an effort to invade Egypt in 240 BC but is defeated thus peace was established until his death in 226 BC. This fulfilled verse nine. "Then, the later (the king of the north, Seleucus II) will enter the realm of the king of the South, but will return to his own land."

C.The Battle of the Sons, 10-13

1. Seleucus III - 226-223 BC and Antiochus III (Antiochus the Great) 223-187 BC, Dan. 11:10 - "And his sons will mobilize and assemble a multitude of great forces"

a. Seleucus III began warring against Egypt.
b. Antichus and his brother continued the war after Seleucus III's death and took Palestine away from Egypt's control. "One of them (the king's sons) will keep on coming and ever throw and pass through (Palestine) that he may wage war up to his very fortress (boarder of Egypt)."

2. Ptolemy IV 221-204 BC

a. Ptolemy IV went out in battle against Antichus when he entered Palestine the first time - "And the king of the South will be enraged and go forth and fight with the king of the North," verse 11. Antiochus falls before the Egyptians in battle in 221 BC.
b. Ptolemy IV again fights against Antichus III in 219 BC when Antichus invades Palestine a second time and advanced to the border of Egypt and defeats Antiochus - "Then the later (Antichus III) will raise a great multitude."
c. Syria lost 10,000 infantry, 300 cavalry, 5 elephants, and 4,000 were taken as prisoners in the battle against Egypt thus fulfilling verse 12, "but, the multitude is carried away, his heart will be lifted up, and he will cause tens of thousands to fall." After Ptolemy's victory, he later died of over indulgence in 203 BC Soon afterward, his great victory was cancelled out fulfilling also fulfilling verse 12, "yet he shall not prevail."

3. Antichus III - the king who would not give up, 13-19.

a. From 217-200 BC Antiochus built up his armies once again and waited for the right time to fight Egypt yet again. "For the king of the North will again raise a greater multitude that the former and after an interval of some years (actually 18 years) he will press on with a great army and much equipment."
b. When Ptolemy IV died in 203 BC, Egypt was weakened and Antiochus attacked soon afterwards finally winning at the battle of Panion.
c. During this time some of the Jews assisted Antiochus in fighting against the Egyptians. "Now in those times many will rise up against the king of the South; the violent ones among your people will also lift themselves up in order to fulfill the vision, but they will fall down," verse 14. Their alliance with Antichus eventually meant their own downfall and we will see in verses 21-2:1.
d. Antiochus defeats the Egyptian general Scopus and takes control of "the beautiful land" - Palestine, 11:15-16.
c. Antiochus devises a plan to take over Egypt through his daughter Cleopatra, verse 17.

* Antiochus proposes peace to Egypt and seals his apparently good intentions by giving his daughter in marriage to Ptolemy V in 198 BC.
* His hope was that his daughter could so influence the young king (then only 12 years old when the marriage was consummated), that Antiochus could then control Egypt.
* Verse 17 says, "He will also give him the daughter of women to ruin it. But she will not take a stand for him or be on his side." Cleopatra consistently sided with her husband against Antiochus thus, the Syrian king is frustrated yet again in his attempt to control Egypt.

d. Antiochus joins with Hannible in an attempt to conquer Greece 11:18, "Then he will turn his face to the coastlands and capture many but a commander will put a stop to his scorn against him; moreover, he will repay him for his scorn."

* The Roman general Scipio defeated Antiochus in 190 BC and made him pay 15,000 talents of silver, his war elephants, and his navy in payment for the defeat (Butler, College Press).
*
As part of his fine, his younger sin Antiochus IV (Epiphanes) was taken as a hostage to Rome.

e. Antiochus' last battle and death, 11:19. Antiochus attempted to regain his loss by invading the Armenians in 187 BC but was defeated by the Elamites and died in disgrace thus, "he will stumble and be found no more."

4. The role of Seleucus IV 187-175 BC. Daniel 11:20.

a. Seleucus the IV, son of Antiochus III and brother of Antichus IV began his rule at his father's death.
b. Seleucus IV began to tax Israel heavily to regain some of the money lost to Rome - "Then in his place (Antiochus III) one will arise (Seleucus the IV) who will send an oppressor through the Jewel of his kingdom (Israel)." According to 2Maccabes 7, the oppressor who was sent to collect the money was Heliodorus.
c. His sudden death - "within a few days he will be shattered though neither in anger or in battle." History records a mysterious disappearance of Seleucus the IV.
e. The removal of Seleucus IV then made room for one of the most despicable persecutors of God's people of all times - Antiochus Epiphanes IV. He will be in the remaining verses.

IV. The Persecution of Anbtiochus Epiphanes, 11:21-12:1 - Intertestamentalperiod of history.
A. He obtains the Kingdom by intrigue in 175 BC, verse 21.
B. He controls Judea, 22-24.

1. Shatters Egypt "overflowing forces" This is possibly the first victory over Egypt, 2 Macc. 5:1.
2. He removes the high priest Onias "prince of the covenant" 2 Macc. 4:7-17.
3. He makes an alliance with the successor of Onias, 1 Macc. 1:12-16; 3:30: and 2Macc. 4:7-50.

C. He conquers Egypt, 11:25-27.

1. He successfully invades Egypt in 169 BC, 1 Macc. 1:17-20, 2 Macc. 5:1-4. This is the second war with Egypt.
2. Ptolemy's supporters abandon him, 11:26.
3. Alliance between Antiochus and Ptolemy fail, 11:27.

D. Antiochus' desecration of the Temple, 169 BC, 11:28.
1. He "Sets his heart against the holy covenant and takes action," 1 Macc. 1:21-29, 2 Macc. 5:5-23.
2. This is the beginning of the 2300 days of Daniel 11:29-30.

E. His failed invasion against Egypt, 11:29-30.

1. The last invasion not like the former.
2. Ships of Kittim - These were possibly sailed in by the Romans.
3. The Romans turn away Antiochus from Egypt and Antichus returns to home.

F. The final destruction of the Temple, 30-31.

1. "He becomes enraged with the holy covenant," 30.
2. He shows regard for the apostate Jews, 30.
3. The desecration of the temple, abolishment of the sacrifices and the abomination of desolation, 31, 1 Macc. 46-62, 2 Macc. 6:1-2.

G. Maccabean revolt, 32-35, 1 Macc. 1:63-4:34.

V. Summary of the Life of Antiochus IV, 36-39

A. His arrogance

1. Exalts himself above every god including the true God, 36.
2. No regard for the god of his fathers, 37
3. Honors the "god of fortresses" - Jupiter, Olympius, the god of Rome.

B. Victories, 40-43

1. Over Egypt (the South)
2. Over Judea, 41

C. Limitations

1. Rescue of Edom, Moab, and Ammon, 41
2. Fear of rumors from the East and North

a. East = Persia
b. North = Judea

3. Destroys many in both places

D. His abominable presence in Judea, 45

E. His final end and defeat at the end of the 2300 days 11:13-14, 45, and Dan. 8:25.
 
Last edited:

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#7
Okay. My wife and me are in this theological debate on who the King of the North and King of the South is as stated in the book of Daniel. She says that the King of the North is going to be Germany. I disagree with her her because I do see any reference in the Bible that the King of the North is Germany. At least we both agree that the King of the South is a nation in the middle East.

So who is the King of the North and South that Daniel speaks of in Daniel 11:40?

Thanks for your help!
Originally, when Alexander died, he had no heirs. Eventually, the kingdom was split among his four generals...

Dan 11:2 And now I will tell you the truth: Behold, three more kings will arise in Persia, and the fourth shall be far richer than them all; by his strength, through his riches, he shall stir up all against the realm of Greece.
Dan 11:3 Then a mighty king shall arise, who shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.
Dan 11:4 And when he has arisen, his kingdom shall be broken up and divided toward the four winds of heaven, but not among his posterity nor according to his dominion with which he ruled; for his kingdom shall be uprooted, even for others besides these.

The four were Ptolemy Soter, Seleucus Nicator, Cassander and lysimachus. The two major players were Ptolemy (King of the South) and Selucus (King of the North).

Antiochus Epiphanes IV was a successor. He successfully raided Egypt but when he tried a second time, things did not work out for him...

Dan 11:29 "At the appointed time he shall return and go toward the south; but it shall not be like the former or the latter.
Dan 11:30 For ships from Cyprus shall come against him; therefore he shall be grieved, and return in rage against the holy covenant, and do damage. "So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant.

Cyprus:

H3794

כִּתִּיִּי כִּתִּי
kittı̂y kittı̂yı̂y
kit-tee', kit-tee-ee'
Patrial from an unused name denoting Cyprus (only in the plural); a Kittite or Cypriote; hence an islander in general, that is, the Greeks or Romans on the shores opposite Palestine: - Chittim, Kittim.

And in fact, Rome swallowed up Syria (the Selucids) in 65BC and became the King of the North. Rome fell in AD476 and was replaced by the Vandals AD429. Then the Heruli AD476 and finally the Ostrogoths AD493. Compare to...

Dan 7:23 "Thus he said: 'The fourth beast shall be A fourth kingdom on earth, Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, And shall devour the whole earth, Trample it and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 The ten horns are ten kings Who shall arise from this kingdom. And another shall rise after them; He shall be different from the first ones, And shall subdue three kings.

The first three kings were pagans, the kings that followed were backed by the Papacy...

Now for the remaining seven kings...

(4) Actually #1 (Rev 17:9-10 we'll get to verse 10 momentarily) Justinian AD554 recognized the Supremacy of the Pope in the West.
(5) Actually #2 Charlemagne crowned by the Pope in AD800.
(6) Actually #3 Otto the Great crowned by the Pope in AD962.
(7) Actually #4 Charles V crowned by Pope in AD1530.
(8) Actually #5 Napoleon crowned in presence of Pope with his endorsement in AD1804.
(9) Actually #6 Mussolini/Hitler AD1939-AD1945 with blessing of Pope.

This is the "one is" found in Rev 17:10. Notice this is the vantage point of this chapter, the time frame of 1939 to1945.

Now (10) Actually #7 under the Pope is now forming in Europe and yes, your wife is correct. Germany is the modern day Assyrian nation and will punish Ephraim and Manasseh. Who is modern day Ephraim? Britain, Canada, Australia, South Africa. who is modern day Manasseh? The United States.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
588
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#10
...

So who is the King of the North and South that Daniel speaks of in Daniel 11:40?
You can find a few thoughts Here on the visions of Daniel that will answer your question...
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#11
Okay. My wife and me are in this theological debate on who the King of the North and King of the South is as stated in the book of Daniel. She says that the King of the North is going to be Germany. I disagree with her her because I do see any reference in the Bible that the King of the North is Germany. At least we both agree that the King of the South is a nation in the middle East.

So who is the King of the North and South that Daniel speaks of in Daniel 11:40?

Thanks for your help!
Albert Barnes
Daniel 11:40


And at the time of the end - See Dan_11:35. The “time of the end” must properly denote the end or consummation of the series of events under consideration, or the matter in hand, and properly and obviously means here the end or consummation of the transactions which had been referred to in the previous part of the vision. It is equivalent to what we should say by expressing it thus: “at the winding up of the affair.” In Dan_12:4, Dan_12:9, Dan_12:13, the word “end,” however, obviously refers to another close or consummation - the end or consummation of the affairs that reach far into the future - the final dispensation of things in this world. It has been held by many that this could not be understood as referring to Antiochus, because what is here stated did not occur in the close of his reign. Perhaps at first sight the most obvious interpretation of what is said in this and the subsequent verses to the end of the chapter would be, that, after the series of events referred to in the previous verses; after Antiochus had invaded Egypt, and had been driven thence by the fear of the Romans, he would, in the close of his reign, again attack that country, and bring it, and Libya, and AEthiopia into subjection Dan_11:43; and that when there, tidings out of the north should compel him to abandon the expedition and return again to his own land.
Porphyry (see Jerome, in loc.) says that this was so, and that Antiochus actually invaded Egypt in the “eleventh year of his reign,” which was the year before he died; and he maintains, therefore, that all this had a literal application to Antiochus, and that being so literally true, it must have been written after the events had occurred. Unfortunately the fifteen books of Porphyry are lost, and we have only the fragments of his works preserved which are to be found in the Commentary of Jerome on the book of Daniel. The statement of Porphyry, referred to by Jerome, is contrary to the otherwise universal testimony of history about the last days of Antiochus, and there are such improbabilities in the statement as to leave the general impression that Porphyry in this respect falsified history in order to make it appear that this must have been written after the events referred to. If the statement of Porphyry were correct, there would be no difficulty in applying this to Antiochus. The common belief, however, in regard to Antiochus is, that he did not invade Egypt after the series of events referred to above, and after he had been required to retire by the authority of the Roman ambassadors, as stated in the notes at Dan_11:30.
This belief accords also with all the probabilities of the case. Under these circumstances, many commentators have supposed that this portion of the chapter Dan_11:40-45 could not refer to Antiochus, and they have applied it to Anti-christ, or to the Roman power. Yet how forced and unnatural such an application must be, anyone can perceive by examining Newton on the Prophecies, pp. 308-315. The obvious, and perhaps it may be added the honest, application of the passage must be to Antiochus. This is that which would occur to any reader of the prophecy; this is what he would obviously hold to be the true application; and this is that only which would occur to anyone, unless it were deemed necessary to bend the prophecy to accommodate it to the history. Honesty and fairness, it seems to me, require that we should understand this as referring to the series of events which had been described in the previous portion of the chapter, and as designed to state the ultimate issue or close of the whole.
There will be no difficulty in this if we may regard these verses Dan_11:40-45 as containing a recapitulation, or a summing up of the series of events, with a statement of the manner in which they would close. If so interpreted all will be clear. It will then be a general statement of what would occur in regard to this remarkable transaction that would so materially affect the interests of religion in Judea, and be such an important chapter in the history of the world. This summing up, moreover, would give occasion to mention some circumstances in regard to the conquests of Antiochus which could not so well be introduced in the narrative itself, and to present, in few words, a summary of all that would occur, and to state the manner in which all would be terminated. Such a summing up, or recapitulation, is not uncommon, and in this way the impression of the whole would be more distinct.
With this view, the phrase “and at the time of the end” Dan_11:40 would refer, not so much to the “time of the end” of the reign of Antiochus, but to the “time of the end” of the whole series of the transactions referred to by the angel as recorded “in the scripture of truth” Dan_10:21, from the time of Darius the Mede Dan_11:1 to the close of the reign of Antiochus - a series of events embracing a period of some three hundred and fifty years. Viewed in reference to this long period, the whole reign of Antiochus, which was only eleven years, might be regarded as “the time of the end.” It was, indeed, the most disastrous portion of the whole period, and in this chapter it occupies more space than all that went before it - for it was to be the time of the peculiar and dreadful trial of the Hebrew people, but it was “the end” of the matter - the winding up of the series - the closing of the events on which the eye of the angel was fixed, and which were so important to be known beforehand. In these verses, therefore Dan_11:40-45, he sums up what would occur in what he here calls appropriately “the time of the end” - the period when the predicted termination of this series of important events should arrive - to wit, in the brief and eventful reign of Antiochus.
Shall the king of the south - The king of Egypt. See Dan_11:5-6, Dan_11:9.
Push at him - As in the wars referred to in the previous verse - in endeavoring to expel him from Coelo-Syria and Palestine, and from Egypt itself, Dan_11:25, Dan_11:29-30. See the note at those verses.
And the king of the north shall come against him - The king of Syria - Antiochus. Against the king of Egypt. He shall repeatedly invade his lands. See the notes above.
Like a whirlwind - As if he would sweep everything before him. This he did when he invaded Egypt; when he seized on Memphis, and the best portion of the land of Egypt, and when he obtained possession of the person of Ptolemy. See the notes at Dan_11:25-27.
With chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships - All this literally occurred in the successive invasions of Egypt by Antiochus. See the notes above.
And he shall enter into the countries - Into Coelo-Syria, Palestine, Egypt, and the adjacent lands.
And shall overflow and pass over - Like a flood he shall spread his armies over these countries. See the notes at Dan_11:22.


Adam Clarke
Daniel 11:40

At the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him - These kings are to be understood in reference to the times of which the prophet speaks. While the kingdoms of Egypt and Syria were subsisting, the king of the south and the north applied to them exclusively: but they did not exist at the time of which the prophet speaks; therefore other southern and northern powers must be sought. These we may find in the Saracens, who were of the Arabians, who came from the south, headed by the false prophet Mohammed, who pushed at him - made war on the Greek emperor Heraclius, and with amazing rapidity deprived him of Egypt, Syria, and many of his finest provinces.
And the king of the north - The Turks, who were originally Scythians, seized on the remains of the Greek empire; and in process of time rendered themselves masters of the whole. They are represented as coming like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen; their armies being chiefly composed of cavalry.
And with many ships - With these they got possession of many islands and maritime countries; and were so powerful in their fleets, that they entirely defeated the Venetians; and at last their fleets became of the utmost consequence to them in besieging, and afterwards taking, Constantinople, a.d. 1453, which they hold to the present day. So they entered into the countries, and overflowed, rendering themselves masters of all Asia Minor and Greece.



John Gill
Daniel 11:40
And at the time of the end,.... At the end of the time appointed of God, when antichrist is arrived to the height of his power and authority:


shall the king of the south push at him; not Philometor king of Egypt; nor is Antiochus meant in the next clause by the king of the north; for, after he was required by the Romans to quit the land of Egypt, there was no more war between him and the king of Egypt; rather therefore the Saracens are meant by the king of the south, as Mr. Mede (y) and Cocceius think, who came from the south, from Arabia Felix: and so Gravius interprets it of the king or caliph of the Saracens, and his successors; who, extending their empire through Asia and Africa, repressed the attempts of the Roman antichrist affecting primacy in the east; and this way goes Mr. Mede, who takes them to be the same with the locusts in Rev_9:3, that distressed antichrist:


and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind; not Antiochus, as before observed; but either emperors, kings, and Christian princes, the chief of which was Godfrey of Bullain, who was crowned king of Jerusalem, as Cocceius: or the Turks, as Jacchiades, so Mr. Brightman on the place, and Mr. Mede; who were originally Tartars or Scythians, and came from the north, the same with the horsemen at Euphrates, Rev_9:15, who also came against antichrist; for he seems to be the "him" they both came against; both the king of the south, and the king of the north, the two woes that came upon Christendom the Saracens are the first woe, and the Turks the second; and who chiefly afflicted the antichristian states, and came like a whirlwind upon them, suddenly, swiftly, and with great rapidity and force:


with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; which well agrees with the Turks, whose armies chiefly consist of horse:


and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow, and pass over; into the countries belonging to antichrist; particularly the Greek or eastern empire; which they overran like a flood, seized it for themselves, and set up an empire for themselves, which still continues; as well as entered into some parts of Europe, and did much damage.


(y) Works, B. 3. p. 674.

Jamieson Fassett and Brown
Daniel 11:40


The difficulty of reconciling this with Antiochus’ history is that no historian but Porphyry mentions an expedition of his into Egypt towards the close of his reign. This Dan_11:40, therefore, may be a recapitulation summing up the facts of the first expedition to Egypt (171-170 b.c.), in Dan_11:22, Dan_11:25; and Dan_11:41, the former invasion of Judea, in Dan_11:28; Dan_11:42, Dan_11:43, the second and third invasions of Egypt (169 and 168 b.c.) in Dan_11:23, Dan_11:24, Dan_11:29, Dan_11:30. Auberlen takes rather Porphyry’s statement, that Antiochus, in the eleventh year of his reign (166-165 b.c.), invaded Egypt again, and took Palestine on his way. The “tidings” (Dan_11:44) as to the revolt of tributary nations then led him to the East. Porphyry’s statement that Antiochus starting from Egypt took Arad in Judah, and devastated all Phoenicia, agrees with Dan_11:45; then he turned to check Artaxias, king of Armenia. He died in the Persian town Tabes, 164 b.c., as both Polybius and Porphyry agree. Doubtless, antitypically, the final Antichrist, and its predecessor Mohammed, are intended, to whom the language may be more fully applicable than to Antiochus the type. The Saracen Arabs “of the south” “pushed at” the Greek emperor Heraclius, and deprived him of Egypt and Syria. But the Turks of “the north” not merely pushed at, but destroyed the Greek empire; therefore more is said of them than of the Saracens. Their “horsemen” are specified, being their chief strength. Their standards still are horse tails. Their “ships,” too, often gained the victory over Venice, the great naval power of Europe in that day. They “overflowed” Western Asia, and then “passed over” into Europe, fixing their seat of empire at Constantinople under Mohammed II [Newton].

(You can always go with commentators instead of forcing scripture to fit the view of your particular church or your views.)
 
Feb 7, 2015
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Okay. My wife and me are in this theological debate on who the King of the North and King of the South is as stated in the book of Daniel. She says that the King of the North is going to be Germany. I disagree with her her because I do see any reference in the Bible that the King of the North is Germany. At least we both agree that the King of the South is a nation in the middle East.

So who is the King of the North and South that Daniel speaks of in Daniel 11:40?

Thanks for your help!
As others have said...... "Is going to be".... OR... "was?" Daniel was "unsealed" within 500 years. We are not still waiting for that to happen. (Just like we are not waiting for most of Revelation to happen... a book that was NOT sealed, at all, but was written as coming to pass ("very soon.")
 
Feb 7, 2015
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Albert Barnes
Daniel 11:40


And at the time of the end - See Dan_11:35. The “time of the end” must properly denote the end or consummation of the series of events under consideration, or the matter in hand, and properly and obviously means here the end or consummation of the transactions which had been referred to in the previous part of the vision. It is equivalent to what we should say by expressing it thus: “at the winding up of the affair.” In Dan_12:4, Dan_12:9, Dan_12:13, the word “end,” however, obviously refers to another close or consummation - the end or consummation of the affairs that reach far into the future - the final dispensation of things in this world. It has been held by many that this could not be understood as referring to Antiochus, because what is here stated did not occur in the close of his reign. Perhaps at first sight the most obvious interpretation of what is said in this and the subsequent verses to the end of the chapter would be, that, after the series of events referred to in the previous verses; after Antiochus had invaded Egypt, and had been driven thence by the fear of the Romans, he would, in the close of his reign, again attack that country, and bring it, and Libya, and AEthiopia into subjection Dan_11:43; and that when there, tidings out of the north should compel him to abandon the expedition and return again to his own land.
Porphyry (see Jerome, in loc.) says that this was so, and that Antiochus actually invaded Egypt in the “eleventh year of his reign,” which was the year before he died; and he maintains, therefore, that all this had a literal application to Antiochus, and that being so literally true, it must have been written after the events had occurred. Unfortunately the fifteen books of Porphyry are lost, and we have only the fragments of his works preserved which are to be found in the Commentary of Jerome on the book of Daniel. The statement of Porphyry, referred to by Jerome, is contrary to the otherwise universal testimony of history about the last days of Antiochus, and there are such improbabilities in the statement as to leave the general impression that Porphyry in this respect falsified history in order to make it appear that this must have been written after the events referred to. If the statement of Porphyry were correct, there would be no difficulty in applying this to Antiochus. The common belief, however, in regard to Antiochus is, that he did not invade Egypt after the series of events referred to above, and after he had been required to retire by the authority of the Roman ambassadors, as stated in the notes at Dan_11:30.
This belief accords also with all the probabilities of the case. Under these circumstances, many commentators have supposed that this portion of the chapter Dan_11:40-45 could not refer to Antiochus, and they have applied it to Anti-christ, or to the Roman power. Yet how forced and unnatural such an application must be, anyone can perceive by examining Newton on the Prophecies, pp. 308-315. The obvious, and perhaps it may be added the honest, application of the passage must be to Antiochus. This is that which would occur to any reader of the prophecy; this is what he would obviously hold to be the true application; and this is that only which would occur to anyone, unless it were deemed necessary to bend the prophecy to accommodate it to the history. Honesty and fairness, it seems to me, require that we should understand this as referring to the series of events which had been described in the previous portion of the chapter, and as designed to state the ultimate issue or close of the whole.
There will be no difficulty in this if we may regard these verses Dan_11:40-45 as containing a recapitulation, or a summing up of the series of events, with a statement of the manner in which they would close. If so interpreted all will be clear. It will then be a general statement of what would occur in regard to this remarkable transaction that would so materially affect the interests of religion in Judea, and be such an important chapter in the history of the world. This summing up, moreover, would give occasion to mention some circumstances in regard to the conquests of Antiochus which could not so well be introduced in the narrative itself, and to present, in few words, a summary of all that would occur, and to state the manner in which all would be terminated. Such a summing up, or recapitulation, is not uncommon, and in this way the impression of the whole would be more distinct.
With this view, the phrase “and at the time of the end” Dan_11:40 would refer, not so much to the “time of the end” of the reign of Antiochus, but to the “time of the end” of the whole series of the transactions referred to by the angel as recorded “in the scripture of truth” Dan_10:21, from the time of Darius the Mede Dan_11:1 to the close of the reign of Antiochus - a series of events embracing a period of some three hundred and fifty years. Viewed in reference to this long period, the whole reign of Antiochus, which was only eleven years, might be regarded as “the time of the end.” It was, indeed, the most disastrous portion of the whole period, and in this chapter it occupies more space than all that went before it - for it was to be the time of the peculiar and dreadful trial of the Hebrew people, but it was “the end” of the matter - the winding up of the series - the closing of the events on which the eye of the angel was fixed, and which were so important to be known beforehand. In these verses, therefore Dan_11:40-45, he sums up what would occur in what he here calls appropriately “the time of the end” - the period when the predicted termination of this series of important events should arrive - to wit, in the brief and eventful reign of Antiochus.
Shall the king of the south - The king of Egypt. See Dan_11:5-6, Dan_11:9.
Push at him - As in the wars referred to in the previous verse - in endeavoring to expel him from Coelo-Syria and Palestine, and from Egypt itself, Dan_11:25, Dan_11:29-30. See the note at those verses.
And the king of the north shall come against him - The king of Syria - Antiochus. Against the king of Egypt. He shall repeatedly invade his lands. See the notes above.
Like a whirlwind - As if he would sweep everything before him. This he did when he invaded Egypt; when he seized on Memphis, and the best portion of the land of Egypt, and when he obtained possession of the person of Ptolemy. See the notes at Dan_11:25-27.
With chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships - All this literally occurred in the successive invasions of Egypt by Antiochus. See the notes above.
And he shall enter into the countries - Into Coelo-Syria, Palestine, Egypt, and the adjacent lands.
And shall overflow and pass over - Like a flood he shall spread his armies over these countries. See the notes at Dan_11:22.


Adam Clarke
Daniel 11:40

At the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him - These kings are to be understood in reference to the times of which the prophet speaks. While the kingdoms of Egypt and Syria were subsisting, the king of the south and the north applied to them exclusively: but they did not exist at the time of which the prophet speaks; therefore other southern and northern powers must be sought. These we may find in the Saracens, who were of the Arabians, who came from the south, headed by the false prophet Mohammed, who pushed at him - made war on the Greek emperor Heraclius, and with amazing rapidity deprived him of Egypt, Syria, and many of his finest provinces.
And the king of the north - The Turks, who were originally Scythians, seized on the remains of the Greek empire; and in process of time rendered themselves masters of the whole. They are represented as coming like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen; their armies being chiefly composed of cavalry.
And with many ships - With these they got possession of many islands and maritime countries; and were so powerful in their fleets, that they entirely defeated the Venetians; and at last their fleets became of the utmost consequence to them in besieging, and afterwards taking, Constantinople, a.d. 1453, which they hold to the present day. So they entered into the countries, and overflowed, rendering themselves masters of all Asia Minor and Greece.



John Gill
Daniel 11:40
And at the time of the end,.... At the end of the time appointed of God, when antichrist is arrived to the height of his power and authority:


shall the king of the south push at him; not Philometor king of Egypt; nor is Antiochus meant in the next clause by the king of the north; for, after he was required by the Romans to quit the land of Egypt, there was no more war between him and the king of Egypt; rather therefore the Saracens are meant by the king of the south, as Mr. Mede (y) and Cocceius think, who came from the south, from Arabia Felix: and so Gravius interprets it of the king or caliph of the Saracens, and his successors; who, extending their empire through Asia and Africa, repressed the attempts of the Roman antichrist affecting primacy in the east; and this way goes Mr. Mede, who takes them to be the same with the locusts in Rev_9:3, that distressed antichrist:


and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind; not Antiochus, as before observed; but either emperors, kings, and Christian princes, the chief of which was Godfrey of Bullain, who was crowned king of Jerusalem, as Cocceius: or the Turks, as Jacchiades, so Mr. Brightman on the place, and Mr. Mede; who were originally Tartars or Scythians, and came from the north, the same with the horsemen at Euphrates, Rev_9:15, who also came against antichrist; for he seems to be the "him" they both came against; both the king of the south, and the king of the north, the two woes that came upon Christendom the Saracens are the first woe, and the Turks the second; and who chiefly afflicted the antichristian states, and came like a whirlwind upon them, suddenly, swiftly, and with great rapidity and force:


with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; which well agrees with the Turks, whose armies chiefly consist of horse:


and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow, and pass over; into the countries belonging to antichrist; particularly the Greek or eastern empire; which they overran like a flood, seized it for themselves, and set up an empire for themselves, which still continues; as well as entered into some parts of Europe, and did much damage.


(y) Works, B. 3. p. 674.

Jamieson Fassett and Brown
Daniel 11:40


The difficulty of reconciling this with Antiochus’ history is that no historian but Porphyry mentions an expedition of his into Egypt towards the close of his reign. This Dan_11:40, therefore, may be a recapitulation summing up the facts of the first expedition to Egypt (171-170 b.c.), in Dan_11:22, Dan_11:25; and Dan_11:41, the former invasion of Judea, in Dan_11:28; Dan_11:42, Dan_11:43, the second and third invasions of Egypt (169 and 168 b.c.) in Dan_11:23, Dan_11:24, Dan_11:29, Dan_11:30. Auberlen takes rather Porphyry’s statement, that Antiochus, in the eleventh year of his reign (166-165 b.c.), invaded Egypt again, and took Palestine on his way. The “tidings” (Dan_11:44) as to the revolt of tributary nations then led him to the East. Porphyry’s statement that Antiochus starting from Egypt took Arad in Judah, and devastated all Phoenicia, agrees with Dan_11:45; then he turned to check Artaxias, king of Armenia. He died in the Persian town Tabes, 164 b.c., as both Polybius and Porphyry agree. Doubtless, antitypically, the final Antichrist, and its predecessor Mohammed, are intended, to whom the language may be more fully applicable than to Antiochus the type. The Saracen Arabs “of the south” “pushed at” the Greek emperor Heraclius, and deprived him of Egypt and Syria. But the Turks of “the north” not merely pushed at, but destroyed the Greek empire; therefore more is said of them than of the Saracens. Their “horsemen” are specified, being their chief strength. Their standards still are horse tails. Their “ships,” too, often gained the victory over Venice, the great naval power of Europe in that day. They “overflowed” Western Asia, and then “passed over” into Europe, fixing their seat of empire at Constantinople under Mohammed II [Newton].

(You can always go with commentators instead of forcing scripture to fit the view of your particular church or your views.)
One slight modification might be in order here. (You can usually go with commentators instead of forcing scripture to fit the view of your particular church or your views.)