Judging...Who's in the driver's seat anyway?

[ember]

Judging a person does not define who they are...it defines who YOU are

The desire to judge someone or even something, stems from a desire to protect oneself; a feeling that perhaps you are not as secure as you think you are. A failure to understand that a difference in perception is NOT a threat to your own persona, or beliefs, can result in an attack upon the 'perceived' threat

Do you think God does not know this?

Well why do you suppose He says to use proper judgement? He is saying stop using your own criteria as a measuring stick for how YOU think I view others. Furthermore, is it really YOUR business how God does HIS business?

The Old Testament has many references that establish God as the ultimate Judge. The New Testament reveals that one day, Jesus will RIGHTLY judge ALL humanity based on each persons' faith in or ultimate rejection of salvation through Christ.

The Judge of the universe has made a judgement about salvation that no human being can altar and this is it:

Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. Acts 4:12

There is no salvation in good works, religion or sacrifice. Let us not confuse MORALITY with SALVATION.

There are many unsaved people who are quite moral in their behavior and that alone is an impediment to their understanding of God's rejection of their 'good' behavior.

God decreed judgement through His Son..

Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, “Let me remove the speck from your eye”; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. (Matthew 7:1–5)

At times, this particular passage has been defined or interpreted to mean that Christians should not judge anyone at all at any time. Is that really what Jesus was saying?

We should judge, but in a manner described in scripture. We do not judge from personal fears or threats, we do not judge because we are offended (one of the most popular types of judgement among Christians), we do not judge because of gossip we heard concerning Betty Lou or someones marriage (which you should not even listen to anyway) we do not judge people's hearts

...which is perhaps the most evil form of condemnation and the most widely accepted form of Christian conduct that is not at all Christian and that is GUARANTEED to put YOU under the same judgment you meet out which will leave YOU struggling in your walk with Christ and will most likely cause bitterness and even more judging to proceed from your spirit which will cause even more judgement in your own life and until you admit your sin, you will stay on your little hamster wheel of misery and rejection.

I'm not trying to teach here...but because of the proliferation of derailed threads and mutliple clone ops' I would like to define the purpose of this op

I would like to discuss proper judgement as defined by scripture. Please do not derail the thread and please do not start an argument or create contention. If you cannot respect the topic and other posters, you are in the wrong thread. Please go play in another sandbox.

Please do not just post a bunch of verses...anyone can do that...I have put some thought into this op and I would appreciate it if you would too

This is not a copy/paste...this is little ole me so please do not copy/paste reams of even helpful information...this is your chance to do a little study and grow a little if you are game

and thank you

 

[Grace777x70]

We are NOT to judge ( as in condemning ) servants of the Lord that are preaching Christ and to depend on Him alone in His "completed" work for our lives.

Judging others ( as in calling them out to the others ) within the church is for those leaders in the local church. We are to discern what is being told to us and be Berean's to search the scriptures to see if what we are being told is true or not.

Romans 14:4 (NASB)

[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

( copy/paste from Romans - a verse in a book in the NT )

 

[UnderGrace]

The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

scriptures were saying.


The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.



I love this!!

I recently met a street preacher who I thought understood the gospel and in time came to realize that he was a "fruit inspector" who preached repentance and good works to keep salvation, telling me how to live a righteous life and please God. For a short time he had me somewhat persuaded about not having any idols etc., etc.,
Yet the sense of condemnation became so great that that I dug deep into my Bible and relearned the gospel of Grace. Now every time I read something that reminds of who I am in Jesus (after what I have been through) I cannot help but respond.
Angela




​

 

[ember]

We are NOT to judge ( as in condemning ) servants of the Lord that are preaching Christ and to depend on Him alone in His "completed" work for our lives.

Judging others ( as in calling them out to the others ) within the church is for those leaders in the local church. We are to discern what is being told to us and be Berean's to search the scriptures to see if what we are being told is true or not.

Romans 14:4 (NASB)

[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

( copy/paste from Romans - a verse in a book in the NT )

I tend to think that much judging is actually a revealing of the heart of the person who is judging!

 

[Ariel82]

Before you even think to,bring judgement upon anything or anyone, you must first love them.

God corrects and chastens us for,the own good.....if we see someone going down,the,wrong path we can speak with,the and try to correct them before it comes to judgment and punishment.

 

[UnderGrace]

I tend to think that much judging is actually a revealing of the heart of the person who is judging!

So true Ember, I have learned this big time!!

 

[ember]

The new man in Christ - the new creation that is created in righteousness and

holiness hears the heart voice of the Spirit and not an old head noise of the letter

of the word. The Pharisees knew "bible knowledge" but they did not

know God's heart and so they erred in really understanding what the

scriptures were saying.


The Lord wants us to look through His eyes and to live from His heart towards

people, towards Him and towards ourselves as well.



I love this!!

I recently met a street preacher who I thought understood the gospel and in time came to realize that he was a "fruit inspector" who preached repentance and good works to keep salvation, telling me how to live a righteous life and please God. For a short time he had me somewhat persuaded about not having any idols etc., etc.,
Yet the sense of condemnation became so great that that I dug deep into my Bible and relearned the gospel of Grace. Now every time I read something that reminds of who I am in Jesus (after what I have been through) I cannot help but respond.
Angela




​

1A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse;
from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.
2The Spirit of the Lord will rest on him—
the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding,
the Spirit of counsel and of might,
the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of the Lord—
3and he will delight in the fear of the Lord.

He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes,
or decide by what he hears with his ears;
4but with righteousness he will judge the needy,
with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth.




almost forgot...that's Isaiah 11...love Isaiah

 

[ember]

Before you even think to,bring judgement upon anything or anyone, you must first love them.

God corrects and chastens us for,the own good.....if we see someone going down,the,wrong path we can speak with,the and try to correct them before it comes to judgment and punishment.

I think that is truly a great observation! God loves us...and Jesus died for us...we can safely put ourselves into the righteous hands of our God and trust in HIS love

I think of David when he sinned by numbering Israel...He was asked by Gad (seer) what he wanted his punishment to be for such a sin. David replied:

11So Gad went to David and said to him, “This is what the Lord says: ‘Take your choice: 12three years of famine, three months of being swept away[SUP]a[/SUP] before your enemies, with their swords overtaking you, or three days of the sword of the Lord—days of plague in the land, with the angel of the Lord ravaging every part of Israel.’ Now then, decide how I should answer the one who sent me.”13David said to Gad, “I am in deep distress. Let me fall into the hands of the Lord, for his mercy is very great; but do not let me fall into human hands.”
I Chronicles 21

 

[Grace777x70]

I tend to think that much judging is actually a revealing of the heart of the person who is judging!

Some of the "judging" comes from having religious thoughts in our minds that are really man-made traditions and we are thinking we are "defending the faith" but in reality we are defending our traditions of which Jesus said we make the word of God void.

This type of stronghold in our minds is particularly deceptive as it has the "appearance" of being for good.

There is a "zeal for God" there but it's not according to knowledge of the heart and true nature of our Father and Lord.

 

[Grace777x70]

I think that is truly a great observation! God loves us...and Jesus died for us...we can safely put ourselves into the righteous hands of our God and trust in HIS love

I think of David when he sinned by numbering Israel...He was asked by Gad (seer) what he wanted his punishment to be for such a sin. David replied:

11So Gad went to David and said to him, “This is what the Lord says: ‘Take your choice: 12three years of famine, three months of being swept away[SUP]a[/SUP] before your enemies, with their swords overtaking you, or three days of the sword of the Lord—days of plague in the land, with the angel of the Lord ravaging every part of Israel.’ Now then, decide how I should answer the one who sent me.”13David said to Gad, “I am in deep distress. Let me fall into the hands of the Lord, for his mercy is very great; but do not let me fall into human hands.”
I Chronicles 21

I love how David could see into the true heart of God and looked forward to the New Covenant - David judged rightly that the Lord's mercy would be much better and thus wanted to be in His hands.

 

[ember]

Some of the "judging" comes from having religious thoughts in our minds that are really man-made traditions and we are thinking we are "defending the faith" but in reality we are defending our traditions of which Jesus said we make the word of God void.

This type of stronghold in our minds is particularly deceptive as it has the "appearance" of being for good.

There is a "zeal for God" there but it's not according to knowledge of the heart and true nature of our Father and Lord.

which is why we have to get on our knees before God and get real with what is in our own hearts! when the big bird of judgement comes and makes a nest in your hair, you begin to understand that God means YOU personally (everyone...don't jump back from the pc screen) and the cognitive part of your brain goes aha!!

While God hates sin, we must realize He hates it in us as well

Jesus had some VERY harsh words to say regarding calling other believers names...which results from judgement

21“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[SUP]a[/SUP] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[SUP]b[/SUP] [SUP]c[/SUP] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[SUP]d[/SUP] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.23“Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift. Matt. 5

 

[ember]

So what IS righteous judgement then? sounds like some kind of judgement is warranted but yet not the your heart is wicked and black and full of sin kind of judgement

again Jesus said this:

Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, “Let me remove the speck from your eye”; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. (Matthew 7:1–5)

so, then it sounds reasonable to conclude that once we have trimmed the sin out of ourselves, we are good to go...saddle the horse, I'm mounting up and riding shotgun on sin...oh and make sure you use the white saddle pad

and that is often the conclusion...but I'm going to ...well, differ from that conclusion and here's why

Jesus KNOWS he is going to judge the world...Jesus knows what Isaiah prophesied about Him so is He really giving us the reins here or is He handing over some heavy truth we need to weigh before taking off on our self-appointed rounds of eye inspection?

This is what I think..and remember, this is my thought, so disagree if you want or offer your own thought...nicely though please

I think Jesus is saying (and here is my paraphrase) 'you are NEVER going to be able to remove anything from anyone's eye because you do not possess the sight to see your own eye that is full of sin. That, is why I am the righteous judge when it comes to matters of the heart. YOU, look at someone...I, look INTO someone'

Jesus is calling the sin in our brother's eye a speck, but refers to the sin in OUR eyes as a plank. Sounds like we are constructing something...and I think we are if we keep adding to our own judgement by judging where it is not our place to judge or judging a heart. Judging a heart, means we are deciding whether or not that person is a Christian or not, whether or not they should have eternal life with God or not...we are judging their motives and thoughts...and Jesus says...'nuh uh...I get to do that.

So, in lengthy conclusion, I suggest that Jesus is basically saying 'Don't judge people...just like He said to the religious leaders when they brought the woman caught in adultery...if you have no sin...you can throw stones' Jesus says the same things over and over in different ways.

Caught your attention yet?

so what and how do we judge? cause it is also incorrect to say we never judge

 

[Marcelo]

I think that learning exegesis, hermeneutics, eschatology, Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, textual criticism, church history, etc, is easy - learning not to judge others is much harder.

 

[UnderGrace]

I do struggle with Matthew 7:5 and John 7:24

“Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”

In John 7:24, Jesus said "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment" Here we are clearly commanded to judge with righteous judgment.

The street preacher I mentioned before used this to argue that he could execute righteous judgement because he had dealt with these certain sins therefore he could then point them out in other people. However, it seems to me that in Matthew 7:5 in context indicates that the log size sin is that of being self-righteous. It is self-righteousness that Jesus is speaking against all through the sermon.

Then it would seem any judging is self-righteous, the fact that a person wants to judge another puts a plank in their own eye? Can that plank be removed? Since our righteousness comes from Jesus are we ever in a place to remove a speck from our brother’s eye. Could that speck be not around his/her sins but perhaps the ability to see the truth of the gospel of Jesus, in which case by witnessing to them we help to remove the speck by sharing the the Truth, but he says brother, so I am not sure that would apply since they would be in the faith.

I agree there are times to judge/discern.....

Just some thoughts …. like I said I have difficulty with this.
Angela

 

[ember]

I think that learning exegesis, hermeneutics, eschatology, Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, textual criticism, church history, etc, is easy - learning not to judge others is much harder.

I tend to see it as a DO...do not judge

but I understand what you are saying..

 

[miknik5]

No uprooting...HE said let the two grow together...
How do we know while the garden is growing that if we went out by our own near-sighted eyes, thinking that we have correctly identified "tare" from the wheat, what if that "tare" that we have incorrectly judged as "tare" today might have very well been "wheat" tomorrow?

That's why we don't judge or condemn or tear up or uproot or take matters into our own hands. That's why we don't live by our own self-professed/self-satisfying "righteousness"...because we aren't THE LORD...and we can't see everything that HE sees and knows from the beginning to the end.

We are to leave everything to grow together until the ONE who is the LORD of the HARVEST, does HIS own harvesting.

We weren't allowed a hand in the harvest...

To HIM...it is still seed...time....and the harvest will be at the end...

 

[ember]

No uprooting...HE said let the two grow together...
How do we know while the garden is growing that if we went out by our own near-sighted eyes, thinking that we have correctly identified "tare" from the wheat, what if that "tare" that we have incorrectly judged as "tare" today might have very well been "wheat" tomorrow?

That's why we don't judge or condemn or tear up or uproot or take matters into our own hands. That's why we don't live by our own self-professed/self-satisfying "righteousness"...because we aren't THE LORD...and we can't see everything that HE sees and knows from the beginning to the end.

We are to leave everything to grow together until the ONE who is the LORD of the HARVEST, does HIS own harvesting.

We weren't allowed a hand in the harvest...

To HIM...it is still seed...time....and the harvest will be at the end...

the other day I was transplanting some stuff from one garden to another and I had some flowers that had grown into another flower so that I had to dig up the whole thing and pull them apart

the one that was the 'good' one was damaged when I pulled the other ones away and I actually thought of just the scripture you make mention of

and now I have the damaged part in water hoping it will put out more roots

To HIM...it is still seed...time....and the harvest will be at the end...

yes!

 

[miknik5]

the other day I was transplanting some stuff from one garden to another and I had some flowers that had grown into another flower so that I had to dig up the whole thing and pull them apart

the one that was the 'good' one was damaged when I pulled the other ones away and I actually thought of just the scripture you make mention of

and now I have the damaged part in water hoping it will put out more roots



yes!

Oh, you are a beautiful soul!
I actually was about to post Ahhhh! that is so very sad until I read that you put the "good" one in water hoping that it will reroot! I hope so too!

 

[Angela53510]

"And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit." 2 Cor. 3:18

I think a lot of judging is birthed out of our false concept that we need to make people over in our image. Instead of God being the one who makes us over in HIS image.

We judge because people do things which do not fit into our little box concerning what we should do, think or say. But that is the least problem in this issue. If someone saw me doing something, and judged me, told me what I was doing was wrong, on the basis of either their own theology, or a few Bible verses, is one thing. (They may be right or wrong, but at least it is based on the facts) But when they start judging for things they have not seen or heard me do, nor even heard tales of things I have done, that is where the line has been completely crossed.

I think judging shows a total distrust in God. If as believers, we are trusting in the Holy Spirit to mold and shape us - to transform us - then a person coming along with their own self-righteous judgment is in fact defying God and his plans for our life by casting judgment on us - particularly if they have never met us, nor watched our walk with God.

Of course we all do sin, even once we are saved! That is why John wrote parts of first epistle - to help believers understand that we do have a loving Saviour and we can confess our sins to him.

"My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world."1 John 2:1-2

I love the way both the Holy Spirit and Jesus are called an "advocate." This word has roots in the concept we call a "lawyer" in English. The word is παράκλητον or paraklaton. It also has overtones of compassion, encouragement and comfort. John uses this word in John 15:26 παράκλητος - (the Nominative lexical form) which is translated "helper" in ESV and NASB, "advocate" in NIV, "comforter" in KJV and "Counselor" in HCSB.

So why is a word study important when we are talking about judging? First, because God is the judge. And second he has promised we will have someone to stand by and defend us against our crimes (sins) on Judgment Day. We don't have to come into the presence of Almighty God alone, and try and defend ourselves. God has given us the best lawyer/advocate/comforter/ encourager/helper/counselor there is!

And why does God do this? Because of his love! 1 John gives us one of the most important qualities of God in this epistle - "God is love!" In fact, 1 John 4:8, 16 both say it!

Ariel was so right in her comments about the need for love, before we can teach or even correct another person. God, the ruler of the universe could judge us without love, and he would always be right! But in his sovereign prerogative he has chosen to love us first, before judgement. He has given us an advocate to stand with us, convict us, and change us as part of our transformational journey.

Perhaps we need a buddy system in this forum? Where each person would post, and their friend/advocate would stand with them against those who would judge out of fear or condemnation. But most of us do rely on the Holy Spirit to comfort and encourage us when we fall down, and turn away from God's Word and his desires for our lives!

Judgment needs to come from a heart full of love, as Christians. Judgement needs to be grounded in the Word of God. Judgement needs to be based on actual transgressions, not straw men that have been constructed so that the poster can make a point - rather than the poster can encourage someone by truly knowing and having a word in season to share.

If we start with love, and come directly from the Word (in context) then it isn't such a bad thing that judging shows who we are, and not just the person we are judging! But how much better to be a friend, to encourage and to comfort when we walk alongside that person!

 

[ember]

Oh, you are a beautiful soul!
I actually was about to post Ahhhh! that is so very sad until I read that you put the "good" one in water hoping that it will reroot! I hope so too!

oh no...I just tend to think a certain way...but thank you

I'm always trying to save something...I even put spiders out LOL!..they gotta live too

It's a daylily...a beautiful white one...half was ok...hopefully this damaged part will root up more

thank you!