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Thread: God LIED!

  1. #21
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    Default Re: God LIED!

    :8) and as we have
    :read:
    4. 3. But the multiplying brood of the ungodly shall not thrive, nor take deep rooting from bastard slips, nor lay any fast foundation. 4. For though they flourish in branches for a time; yet standing not last, they shall be shaken with the wind, and through the force of winds they shall be rooted out. 5. The imperfect branches shall be broken off, their fruit unprofitable, not ripe to eat, yea, meet for nothing. 6. For children begotten of unlawful beds are witnesses of wickedness against their parents in their trial. 7. But though the righteous be prevented with death, yet shall he be in rest. 8. For honourable age is not that which standeth in length of time, nor that is measured by number of years. 9. But wisdom is the gray hair unto men, and an unspotted life is old age. 10. He pleased God, and was beloved of him: so that living among sinners he was translated. 11. Yea speedily was he taken away, lest that wickedness should alter his understanding, or deceit beguile his soul. 12. For the bewitching of naughtiness doth obscure things that are honest; and the wandering of concupiscence doth undermine the simple mind. 13. He, being made perfect in a short time, fulfilled a long time: 14. For his soul pleased the Lord: therefore hasted he to take him away from among the wicked. 15. This the people saw, and understood it not, neither laid they up this in their minds, That his grace and mercy is with his saints, and that he hath respect unto his chosen. 16. Thus the righteous that is dead shall condemn the ungodly which are living; and youth that is soon perfected the many years and old age of the unrighteous. 17. For they shall see the end of the wise, and shall not understand what God in his counsel hath decreed of him, and to what end the Lord hath set him in safety. 18. They shall see him, and despise him; but God shall laugh them to scorn: and they shall hereafter be a vile carcase, and a reproach among the dead for evermore. 19. For he shall rend them, and cast them down headlong, that they shall be speechless; and he shall shake them from the foundation; and they shall be utterly laid waste, and be in sorrow; and their memorial shall perish. 20. And when they cast up the accounts of their sins, they shall come with fear: and their own iniquities shall convince them to their face.

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    I find it funny how whenever one of us opens a thread like this no one seems to want to come refute us, They may come in and take a few pot shots. But no they do not want to actually sit and show us where we are wrong.

    This should make them think..


    Great thread,, almost sticky worthy!!
    JGIG, Budman, Utah and 2 others like this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

  3. #23
    bikerchaz
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    Default Re: God LIED!

    Quote Originally Posted by Budman View Post
    Okay, now that I have your attention....

    One of the main things that is troublesome to my soul, are those who believe one must strive to live the "Christian life" in order to remain saved. They believe that if you sin too much after your conversion, you can lose your salvation. Or they believe you can "give" your salvation back to God and walk away. Or, they'll say, if you don't live and act in a Christian "manner" it proves you were never saved at all.

    I wanted to point out, that if one can lose their salvation, based on their performance in any way, then that makes God a liar.
    Yes I agree with this, if my intention is to earn my way through to the kingdom it will not work, my passage has been paid for on a lump of wood 2000 years ago.

    Jesus said that He gives us eternal life, and that we shall never perish, and that no one can snatch us out of His, or the Father's hand. (John 3:16, 10: 28-29)
    Yep.

    If we can lose our salvation, then we will perish, and we will indeed be snatched out of the hands of Jesus and the Father.
    This statement is not correct If we could/can, then why do you say we will perish or Will indeed be snatched out of His hands. You take a word that is conjecture and make it a certainty, this is what is not correct. It is subtle though, therefore your verdict is misplaced.
    Verdict: God LIED.

    The Bible says that we have been sealed by the Holy Spirit which is a pledge guaranteeing our inheritance. (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 5:5)
    We are, we live in a world that is given to satan to rule. The only bit of it guaranteed not to be in His control is where the Spirit of God is, in us as individuals.

    If we can lose our salvation, then there is no guarantee of our inheritance and the seal of the Holy Spirit is conditional.
    I do hear what you say, and I know this is a run up to this "works" stuff. I have asked God about this and he has given me this;
    Heb 12
    12 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

    2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

    3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

    This comes down to living the life choices we make. We are told to "Keep ourselves pure", to "run from sin" "that so easily besets us". Why do you think this is? The Holy Spirit on more than one occasion in my life has warned me about something and I have not listened, He gets fainter every time. I have a prompt to interpret and don't I get another and still don't then I don't get another one and it is too quiet. I get a prompt to speak out, tongue or not and I don't eventually the prompting goes and all is silent. We are told to not let sin rule in our bodies, why is this? Because God can not look on sin let alone live where sin is. The parable of the prodigal son shows that to God we can be dead, the servants and the talents, shows that they were servants and include "weeping and gnashing of teeth".
    The verdict here should be we have free will.

    Verdict: God LIED.

    The Bible says Jesus will never leave us or forsake us. (Hebrews 13:5)
    No he will never, and to this I/we hold IF this is the choice we make Jesus will never let us down. And just for those who will jump on this "we make" bit, the choice to serve Jesus is a choice we all have to make and does not involve doing works to secure our salvation.

    If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus has left and forsaken us.
    Your doing it again, making a possibility into a certainty, you cant keep doing this it is not correct.
    The verdict is not valid
    Verdict: God LIED.

    The Bible says Jesus always lives to make intercession for us. (Hebrews 7:25)
    Yes He does, Praise Him!
    If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus will not always make intercession for us - only while we remain saved.
    This is your interpretation and I disagree with it most strongly. I never stopped loving my Eldest daughter until the day she died, she was never far from my thoughts even when she plied herself on the streets for her next fix. We may walk away and turn to our own ways but we always have an intercessor. Besides my daughter I myself have needed Jesus intercession and am grateful for it. But the love of a parent within me lets me know, AND IS confirmed by the Holy Spirit, that this concern and love is never taken away from us.
    The verdict is them made unprofitable.

    Verdict: God LIED.

    The Bible says we are sealed for the Day of Redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)
    This should be taken with the rest of the chapter, it is talking about those things that will separate us from the gift we have in Jesus; V1
    I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called.
    V 12
    For the perfecting of the saints
    V 17-18
    This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
    18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

    Surly then walking in this way brings about ignorance and blindness of heart.
    V 27
    That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts.
    "Put off" is not working works to salvation, it is so we can, as he said in the previous verses V 23 and 24 it is to;


    23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

    24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
    And the part you missed in V 30;
    And grieve not the holy Spirit of God . . .


    If we can lose our salvation, then we are not sealed until the Day of Redemption, but only up until we are lost again.
    The worst thing about this is it is your perception of the whole thing and it brings dissension. It brings brother against brother and takes our eyes of Jesus and puts them on ourselves and others. Showing what others have been led to in Christ shows a weak Christ and He is anything but. You are His and if you squander His works so you can live your life as you want with no consequence then you will have a rude awakening.
    Verdict: God LIED.????

    Jesus said that He will lose none of us, but will raise us up on the last day. (John 6:39)
    Amen to this
    If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus will, in fact, lose some of us, and will not raise us up on the last day.
    What you say is true, I have felt the grief of the Holy Spirit for some who have died and I include my daughter in this, I also include my youngest daughter in this, she has not died yet and I know she met with the Lord as a child, but since she left home over 12 years ago I have noticed I do not know her any more, I still love her deeply and pray for her.
    Verdict: God LIED. Your opinion.

    Jesus said that believers will never come into judgment, and have passed from death into life. (John 5:24)
    Yes isn't it wonderful, those who believe and walk in His way have passed from death to life. I did not understand this until earlier this year, The Holy spirit showed me a truth and I shared it on here in CC. Grace 777x70 commented on it.

    If we can lose our salvation, then we will go back under judgment, and pass from life back into death.
    Again, this is repetitive, you take an uncertainty and make it a certainty;
    Gal 4
    9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, where unto ye desire again to be in bondage?
    and
    11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
    Verdict annulled

    Verdict: God LIED.

    The Bible says our calling is irrevocable. (Roman 11:29)29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
    You must have a different bible to me, the word irrevocable is used in the NIV but Paul is talking about the restoration of Israel not our gentile individual calling.
    If we can lose our salvation, then our calling is indeed revocable.????

    Verdict: God LIED.????

    The Bible says salvation is a gift from God. (Ephesians 2:8)
    Yep
    If we can lose our salvation, then salvation is not a gift, but a wage to be earned.
    This is your conjecture, salvation can never be earned, just chosen, and as a birthday gift can be thrown into the bin so can Gods gifts be squandered and thrown out with the trash. Why does everyone who agree with you think that everything is earned by works, this is used as a club to brow beat people into submission, not me!
    Verdict: God LIED. Verdict invalid.

    The Bible says nothing in all creation (that includes us as created beings) can separate us from the love of God. (Romans 8:38-39)
    Again I disagree with you, yes we are created things, but our own free will is not under the control of God or Jesus or the angels or satan, it is under my, your, our control. if we want to stay chosen there is nothing we can come up against that will change that, nothing.

    If we can lose our salvation, then something can indeed separate us from the love of God.
    Yes US!
    Verdict invalid

    Verdict: God LIED.

    The Bible says God will complete the good work that He began in us. (Philippians 1:6)
    Yes, (this record is stuck again) if we chose to be chosen.
    If we can lose our salvation, then God's good work will not be completed.
    Ha ha! I think youv'e got it!

    Verdict: God LIED. May be not, verdict invalid.

    The Bible says we have been perfected for all time. (Hebrews 10:14)
    Yes as long as we remain chosen
    If we can lose our salvation, then we certainly are not perfected for all time.
    No we are not, see you are getting good at this

    Verdict: God LIED. Here we go again, may be not . verdict invalid.

    The Bible says our inheritance is imperishable, can never spoil, and is unfading, guarded by God's power. (1 Peter 1:3-5)
    Yes, hallelujah! we will receive our reward YAY!
    If we can lose our salvation, then our inheritance will perish, will spoil, and will fade.
    NO, but here we have the servant relationship (that's us folks) here again;
    Luke 19

    23 Why then didn’t you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?’ 24 “Then he said to those standing by, ‘Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’
    25 “‘Sir,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’

    26 “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”


    Verdict: God LIED. Verdict invalid

    The Bible says if we drink from the living water that is Christ, we will never be thirsty again. (John 4:14)
    Hallelujah! this is because we have the well spring living in us, the Holy Spirit.

    If we can lose our salvation, then we will indeed be thirsty again.
    Yep, and there is/will be, no longer a sacrifice that will cover our sin should the master of the house return as a thief (as in a time not known to us), read the scriptures they are plain "there will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth".

    Verdict: God LIED. Verdict invalid

    The Bible says God will sustain us to the end, guiltless in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 1:8)
    Yes he sort of is, but Paul is giving thanks for the things he has heard of the Corinthians, and telling them that keeping the faith will lead to God sustaining them.
    If we can lose our salvation, then we will not be sustained until the day of the Lord.
    Now you seem to be getting it, if we loose our salvation we certainly will not be sustained and face that day with terror, but if we give thanks and accept Christ's sacrifice as a covering for our sin/turning away we will regain that sustainment.


    Verdict: God LIED.Verdict invalid.

    The Bible says that our debt to God has been canceled through Christ Jesus. (Colossians 2:13-14)
    Yes.
    If we can lose our salvation, our debt has not truly been canceled.
    You are wrong in this statement, what has been thrown in to the deepest parts of the sea will stay there, God will not rake up our past misdemeanours, but the offence we would make turning our backs on Him is unfathomable.

    Verdict: God LIED.Verdict invalid


    Jesus said that those who are His will never hunger nor thirst again. (John 6:35)
    Amen.
    If we can lose our salvation, then we will again hunger and thirst.
    Yep
    Verdict: God LIED. Verdict invalid



    So, what is your verdict? Did God lie to us when He made all of those promises, or is our salvation indeed eternal and irrevocable?
    "If God be for us who can be against us?" I am not going to answer any more of these (grace) threads, they are divisive and not showing love and concern for the brotherhood. How? I hear you ask. I was told a few weeks ago that because of the grace I have in Jesus "it does not matter what I do, I am always in a state of grace". It does matter what I do, it matters what you do, "should we sin so grace should abound?" No "God forbid", but someone on here at CC told me these words and finished it with a smiley face.

    I have already stated my stance on this. We are not to contemplate being without Christ, but even Paul acknowledged there are week Christians who by their nature are not mature in Christ, and to state that we can never loose our salvation is not true and very dangerous.

    No we do not live in fear, we are not given a Spirit of fear, but "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom", We are to come to Jesus as a child, letting His Spirit guide us in all we do. But I know the Spirit does not bash us over the head with a club with grace on it, he nurtures us gently and lovingly.

    I am going to finish with this; I do not care what you think or have been led to yourselves in Christ. What My lord has done for you is yours. He is your master you are His servant. He can change you or not as He sees fit. What ever he does do, I love you, honestly and truly I do because He is also my master and can do with me as He sees fit. The only reason I came to this thread was because of my love for those who are week in Him. If you are strong then I PRAISE HIM! for I will see you in the Kingdom of our risen Lord Jesus.

  4. #24
    bikerchaz
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    Default Re: God LIED!

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    I find it funny how whenever one of us opens a thread like this no one seems to want to come refute us, They may come in and take a few pot shots. But no they do not want to actually sit and show us where we are wrong.

    This should make them think..


    Great thread,, almost sticky worthy!!
    You were saying.
    It is because the Love in Jesus does not want me to add to the guilt trip. and keeping our eyes fixed on us keeps them from being on Jesus the author and finisher of our faith

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    Senior Member mailmandan's Avatar
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    Default Re: God LIED!

    Quote Originally Posted by HeRoseFromTheDead View Post
    Depends on the kind of fear.
    The kind of fear that is based on a relationship with God is reverence for God, not fear and bondage to IN-security based on the merits of one's performance.
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    God made the covenant with His people. We can't break it, because we didn't even make it!

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    Senior Member eternally-gratefull's Avatar
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    Default Re: God LIED!

    Quote Originally Posted by bikerchaz View Post
    You were saying.
    It is because the Love in Jesus does not want me to add to the guilt trip.
    What Guilt trip?

    and keeping our eyes fixed on us keeps them from being on Jesus the author and finisher of our faith
    Yep. not only the author, but the finisher (of our faith)

    Which is why the OP is so true, My faith was finished the moment I trusted Christ, It will never fail to the point salvation can be lost. Or else GOD LIED!
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Senior Member Budman's Avatar
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    Default Re: God LIED!

    Quote Originally Posted by crossnote View Post
    My old line: The OP kept mentioning 'our salvation'...rather it is His Salvation as Salvation is from the LORD...that can't be lost...ours can.

    "Our" of course, meaning born again Christians in general.

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    Default Re: God LIED!

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    The kind of fear that is based on a relationship with God is reverence for God, not fear and bondage to IN-security based on the merits of one's performance.
    2 Timothy 1:7
    For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

    Romans 8:15
    For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out,Abba, Father.”

    Galatians 4:6
    And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out,Abba, Father!”
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Senior Member Budman's Avatar
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    Default Re: God LIED!

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    I find it funny how whenever one of us opens a thread like this no one seems to want to come refute us, They may come in and take a few pot shots. But no they do not want to actually sit and show us where we are wrong.
    Very true. They'll rage for a bit, throw a few out-of-context verses at us, claim some sort of offense and drop out with a bit of name calling.

    This should make them think..
    It's what I'm praying for. If only they would break free and experience the true joy of salvation, instead of bondage to a merit-based, sliding-scale salvation system.

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    I am not going to answer any more of these (grace) threads, they are divisive and not showing love and concern for the brotherhood.
    It is because of love and concern for you, and those like you, that we keep presenting the truth of God's unmerited favor.

    I was told a few weeks ago that because of the grace I have in Jesus "it does not matter what I do, I am always in a state of grace".
    You are confusing what we could do and what we should do. No one is advocating a sinful lifestyle, but what we are saying is true: Salvation is not dependent on how we behave. The reason? It's not based on us - it's based on Christ. To say that our actions determine whether we lose our salvation, is to say that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross did not pay for every single sin.

    The only reason I came to this thread was because of my love for those who are week in Him.

    The ones that are truly weak are those who don't trust God enough to believe salvation is truly a gift that cannot be earned.

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    Default Re: God LIED!

    Quote Originally Posted by Budman View Post
    Very true. They'll rage for a bit, throw a few out-of-context verses at us, claim some sort of offense and drop out with a bit of name calling.



    It's what I'm praying for. If only they would break free and experience the true joy of salvation, instead of bondage to a merit-based, sliding-scale salvation system.
    You and me both bud.. Keep on praying
    JGIG, Budman, mailmandan and 3 others like this.
    Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

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    Default Re: God LIED!

    Quote Originally Posted by Budman View Post
    Okay, now that I have your attention....

    One of the main things that is troublesome to my soul, are those who believe one must strive to live the "Christian life" in order to remain saved. They believe that if you sin too much after your conversion, you can lose your salvation. Or they believe you can "give" your salvation back to God and walk away. Or, they'll say, if you don't live and act in a Christian "manner" it proves you were never saved at all.

    I wanted to point out, that if one can lose their salvation, based on their performance in any way, then that makes God a liar.

    Jesus said that He gives us eternal life, and that we shall never perish, and that no one can snatch us out of His, or the Father's hand. (John 3:16, 10: 28-29)

    If we can lose our salvation, then we will perish, and we will indeed be snatched out of the hands of Jesus and the Father.

    Verdict: God LIED.

    The Bible says that we have been sealed by the Holy Spirit which is a pledge guaranteeing our inheritance. (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 5:5)

    If we can lose our salvation, then there is no guarantee of our inheritance and the seal of the Holy Spirit is conditional.

    Verdict: God LIED.

    The Bible says Jesus will never leave us or forsake us. (Hebrews 13:5)

    If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus has left and forsaken us.

    Verdict: God LIED.

    The Bible says Jesus always lives to make intercession for us. (Hebrews 7:25)

    If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus will not always make intercession for us - only while we remain saved.

    Verdict: God LIED.

    The Bible says we are sealed for the Day of Redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)

    If we can lose our salvation, then we are not sealed until the Day of Redemption, but only up until we are lost again.

    Verdict: God LIED.

    Jesus said that He will lose none of us, but will raise us up on the last day. (John 6:39)

    If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus will, in fact, lose some of us, and will not raise us up on the last day.

    Verdict: God LIED.

    Jesus said that believers will never come into judgment, and have passed from death into life. (John 5:24)

    If we can lose our salvation, then we will go back under judgment, and pass from life back into death.

    Verdict: God LIED.

    The Bible says our calling is irrevocable. (Roman 11:29)

    If we can lose our salvation, then our calling is indeed revocable.

    Verdict: God LIED.

    The Bible says salvation is a gift from God. (Ephesians 2:8)

    If we can lose our salvation, then salvation is not a gift, but a wage to be earned.

    Verdict: God LIED.

    The Bible says nothing in all creation (that includes us as created beings) can separate us from the love of God. (Romans 8:38-39)

    If we can lose our salvation, then something can indeed separate us from the love of God.

    Verdict: God LIED.

    The Bible says God will complete the good work that He began in us. (Philippians 1:6)

    If we can lose our salvation, then God's good work will not be completed.

    Verdict: God LIED.

    The Bible says we have been perfected for all time. (Hebrews 10:14)

    If we can lose our salvation, then we certainly are not perfected for all time.

    Verdict: God LIED.

    The Bible says our inheritance is imperishable, can never spoil, and is unfading, guarded by God's power. (1 Peter 1:3-5)

    If we can lose our salvation, then our inheritance will perish, will spoil, and will fade.

    Verdict: God LIED.

    The Bible says if we drink from the living water that is Christ, we will never be thirsty again. (John 4:14)

    If we can lose our salvation, then we will indeed be thirsty again.

    Verdict: God LIED.

    The Bible says God will sustain us to the end, guiltless in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 1:8)

    If we can lose our salvation, then we will not be sustained until the day of the Lord.

    Verdict: God LIED.

    The Bible says that our debt to God has been canceled through Christ Jesus. (Colossians 2:13-14)

    If we can lose our salvation, our debt has not truly been canceled.

    Verdict: God LIED.

    Jesus said that those who are His will never hunger nor thirst again. (John 6:35)

    If we can lose our salvation, then we will again hunger and thirst.

    Verdict: God LIED.



    So, what is your verdict? Did God lie to us when He made all of those promises, or is our salvation indeed eternal and irrevocable?


    There's God's part and there's our part. Of course God will be faithful to us, no one will snatch us out of His hand, etc. but we can choose to leave. It's like this- if a poor woman marries a rich man, she inherits the riches of his family. But if she divorces him, she loses her inheritance. He was faithful to her, but she left him. To say we lose our ability to choose, is like saying its God's fault when we sin because we have no choice, we lost our free will when we became Christians. We cannot choose to leave God, we cannot choose to sin.

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    Default Re: God LIED!

    Quote Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull View Post
    2 Timothy 1:7
    For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

    Romans 8:15
    For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out,Abba, Father.”

    Galatians 4:6
    And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out,Abba, Father!”
    Amen! It's not about having a spirit of bondage to fear, but a reverence for God.

    Proverbs 1:7 - The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; Fools despise wisdom and instruction.

    Acts 9:31 - So the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria enjoyed peace, being built up; and going on in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, it continued to increase.

    Acts 10:35 - But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

    1 Peter 2:17 - Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

    Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church many years ago, I remember fearing God as if He was a tyrant who couldn't wait to punish me every time I messed up. Now that is an unhealthy fear which is not based on a relationship with God and amounts to bondage!
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

  15. #35
    Senior Member Budman's Avatar
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    Default Re: God LIED!

    Of course God will be faithful to us, no one will snatch us out of His hand, etc. but we can choose to leave.
    The Bible says "nothing in all creation" can snatch us from His hand.

    Are you part of that creation? Are we created beings?

    If so, then not even we ourselves can do it.

    As the Bible says, we can be unfaithful, but God will remain faithful. Salvation is a gift that cannot be returned.

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    Default Re: God LIED!

    Quote Originally Posted by Trail-of-Truth View Post
    There's God's part and there's our part. Of course God will be faithful to us, no one will snatch us out of His hand, etc. but we can choose to leave. It's like this- if a poor woman marries a rich man, she inherits the riches of his family. But if she divorces him, she loses her inheritance. He was faithful to her, but she left him. To say we lose our ability to choose, is like saying its God's fault when we sin because we have no choice, we lost our free will when we became Christians. We cannot choose to leave God, we cannot choose to sin.
    The big difference between God and common man ..is that He is different..His ways are higher then our ways and His thoughts then our thoughts...That's why the Lord made a New Covenant because we could not keep the Old one.

    Our part is to "believe " in what He has said to us about His Son..the Lord Jesus Christ and what He has done for us. This belief will effect a change in us as we renew our minds to the truth and grace that is in Christ.
    bikerchaz, JGIG, Budman and 3 others like this.

  17. #37
    bikerchaz
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    Default Re: God LIED!

    See, this is getting into a too and fro situation. If we love each other we will not hit each other over the head with the bible. I admit and also repent of my doing my bit of this within this thread.

    Within the free will I have been given through my creation as a human being, I chose God and His righteousness because I haven't got my own and cant earn it by doing anything except accepting Jesus sacrifice on the cross for me.

    I also got an immersion baptism with human witnesses, and received the Holy Spirit (not at the same time). I have asked Jesus in to live in me through His Holy Spirit, and when convicted through the Spirit I give thanks for Jesus sacrifice that covers me, and seek within my life to not give the Spirit cause to convict me again, not to earn anything but because I love Jesus more than my life and to think I could cause Him concern enough to convict me grieves the person I am, or the person Jesus has made me.

    Even with my rant previously I tried not to judge #23, if I did Budman, I do apologise, I am truly sorry.
    The comments this thread has bought, I feel, have judged me. In this I forgive all (because to point a finger is to judge), I only have one judge and that is my Lord.

    I am not lying and there are three witnesses that will attest, I do love my brothers and sisters in Jesus, and my answer was prompted by that concern.

  18. #38
    Senior Member Budman's Avatar
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    Default Re: God LIED!

    If we love each other we will not hit each other over the head with the bible.
    Not to sound confrontational, but doesn't truth matter?

    Even with my rant previously I tried not to judge #23, if I did Budman, I do apologise, I am truly sorry.
    The comments this thread has bought, I feel, have judged me.
    We are not trying to judge, but to share our understanding of what the gospel is, what it means, and how it is applied.

    Chaz, you don't need to apologize. It's obvious to all you have a good heart and an inquisitive mind that seeks after truth. It's also obvious that you love the Lord deeply, and we all appreciate you being here on CC.

    Blessings to you.

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    Default Re: God LIED!

    Quote Originally Posted by Budman View Post
    Not to sound confrontational, but doesn't truth matter?



    We are not trying to judge, but to share our understanding of what the gospel is, what it means, and how it is applied.

    Chaz, you don't need to apologize. It's obvious to all you have a good heart and an inquisitive mind that seeks after truth. It's also obvious that you love the Lord deeply, and we all appreciate you being here on CC.

    Blessings to you.
    Amen! I absolutely love our beloved brother bikerchaz's heart for the Lord. We can all be encouraged by his love, life and heart for our Lord.

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    Default Re: God LIED!

    Quote Originally Posted by HeRoseFromTheDead View Post
    Depends on the kind of fear.
    Apparently people cant make out the difference between "having a fear of" and "living in terror of".
    I am a strong supporter of followers of Christ who struggle with the lbgt lifestyle. If you are struggling in faith with this like I do, feel free to contact me for support, encouragement or even for a friend. Or to give me your much needed support and encouragement as well

    Do not follow your heart, but guard it.
    (Proverbs 4:23)


    Who is the liar? It is he who denies that Jesus is the Christ. It is the antichrist that denies the Father and the Son.
    1 John 2:22

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