Beware of those who speak evil of God's law, but not evil of sin

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Jan 7, 2015
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#1
There is a doctrine that has entered into the world which speaks evil of God’s law, but yet it does not speak evil of sin, as one of their own confessed “we do not speak out against sin.” This is a very deceptive doctrine cloaked in a false grace message, as many have already been deceived by it. It sounds good to the sinful masses because it does not speak evil of their ongoing sins, but rather it pits God’s law against God’s grace, thus it speaks evil of God’s law as if it is against the promises of God.

This is like trying to pit God’s words against God’s words, which both God’s law and God’s grace come from the same God, and both are His words, which are Truth.


But what does not come from God is a
lie, and sin, which also leads to death. But what the enemy has managed to do is convince many unlearned and unstable souls that God’s law is the enemy instead of sin, even making God’s law out to be in their minds sin and death, which is a lie strait from hell. Now, many who have already believed that lie will try to twist what it is I am saying here in this thread by proclaiming I am preaching “works Salvationism” or “legalism” or DIY “self righteousness” but that is a common tactic used by the enemy to try misrepresent others views, as they also have to misrepresent scripture in order to pit God’s law against God’s promises by grace.


Paul said in
Galatians 3:21 “Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.”

Now I am not saying we are saved, justified, or made righteous by the works of the law, so don’t even try to go there with that constant straw man argument.
But nowhere in scripture will you find that doing good and keeping the commandments of God by faith leads one to
sin, death, hell and destruction.


But you will find in scripture that doing
evil, being carnally minded and walking after the lusts of the flesh leads to death, as the wage of sin is death. God’s law to Moses had several purposes, even prophetic shadows which many do not fully see or fully understand. But one other purpose was it was added because of transgressions, and was given to condemn sin to death in the flesh and in the world.

This is why Paul called it the ministration of
condemnation and of death because the law exposes what was already working in the world and already working in all of mankind, which is death by sin.


But is the law of God
evil, sin, or death? Absolutely not! And Paul makes this very clear in
Romans 7:7, and in all his letters, that the Law of God is holy, just, and good.

So
beware of those who try to pit God’s law against God’s grace, and those who speak evil of God’s law as if it were sin, but yet are silent when it comes to speaking out against ongoing sin, which leads to death and eternal destruction.


Isaiah 8:20 “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#2
Here is exhibit A, this false teaching from Joseph Prince ministries has been posted several times now on these forums via copy paste and video from his web site.

Continue In God’s Grace | Grace Inspirations | Joseph Prince Ministries

Notice the lie saying God's law killed 3,000->>>>>>

But what happened after God gave them the law on the first Pentecost? Three thousand people died!
The law, which was “written and engraved on stones”, ministered death. It killed 3,000 people.
Another lie here->>>>>

My friend, when you come under the law by trying to keep God’s commandments in order to be blessed, it will lead to death
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#3
Here is exhibit A, this false teaching from Joseph Prince ministries has been posted several times now on these forums via copy paste and video from his web site.

Continue In God’s Grace | Grace Inspirations | Joseph Prince Ministries

Notice the lie saying God's law killed 3,000->>>>>>

Another lie here->>>>>

Is the Law not what scripture calls "the letter"?

The Law kills not because there is anything wrong with the Law, but because there is something wrong with us.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#4
Romans 3:19-24 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;

[SUP]20 [/SUP] because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]
But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

[SUP]22[/SUP] eventhe righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

[SUP]24 [/SUP]
being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;

Galatians 2:16 (NASB)

[SUP]16 [/SUP] nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.



Galatians 3:10-12 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM."

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

[SUP]12 [/SUP] However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."

 
Jan 7, 2015
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#5
Is the Law not what scripture calls "the letter"?

The Law kills not because there is anything wrong with the Law, but because there is something wrong with us.
The law of God just exposes sin and condemns sin, so the law of God is not the evil, but sin that leads to death. So why would one want to speak evil of the law of God, but not speak evil of sin?
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#6
The law of God just exposes sin and condemns sin, so the law of God is not the evil, but sin that leads to death. So why would one want to speak evil of the law of God, but not speak evil of sin?
2 Corinthians 3:6

"Who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#7
2 Corinthians 3:6

"Who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."
Again you need to understand what Paul is saying, notice Paul confirms it is sin that causes death, the law just exposes and condemns sin....

The law of God is not sin, nor is the law of God death, but the law of God does condemn sin.

Romans 7:7-13 "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

As you see in the above examples, it was sin that brought death, the law of God which is just, holy and good just condemns sin, which is why Paul called it the ministration of condemnation and death.

Sin taking occasion by God's commandments is like the serpent took occasion by God's commandment to deceive Eve and Adam and kill them by sin, which came by transgressing God's commandment for them not to eat. God's commandment not to eat was for their own benefit, but death came when they sinned against God's commandment. So the evil is sin, not God's commandments, which just exposes and condemns sin.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#8
Sin taking occasion by God's commandments is like the serpent took occasion by God's commandment to deceive Eve and Adam and kill them by sin, which came by transgressing God's commandment for them not to eat. God's commandment not to eat was for their own benefit, but death came when they sinned against God's commandment. So the evil is sin, not God's commandments, which just exposes and condemns sin.
For the commandment [is] a lamp; and the law [is] light; and reproofs of instruction [are] the way of life: Proverbs 6:23

But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. Ephesians 5:13-14
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#9
Again you need to understand what Paul is saying, notice Paul confirms it is sin that causes death, the law just exposes and condemns sin....

The law of God is not sin, nor is the law of God death, but the law of God does condemn sin.

Romans 7:7-13 "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

As you see in the above examples, it was sin that brought death, the law of God which is just, holy and good just condemns sin, which is why Paul called it the ministration of condemnation and death.

Sin taking occasion by God's commandments is like the serpent took occasion by God's commandment to deceive Eve and Adam and kill them by sin, which came by transgressing God's commandment for them not to eat. God's commandment not to eat was for their own benefit, but death came when they sinned against God's commandment. So the evil is sin, not God's commandments, which just exposes and condemns sin.
That the Law kills does not make the Law evil. Again, the problem isn't with the Law, but with us.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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#10
I don't think anyone can speak evil of Gods Law.

Gods Law cannot be evil.

It is the highest thing we can aspire to. Obedience to God.


The only problem is, those who tried to be obedient to Gods Law by their own understanding and will and strength weren't able to. Of course not. Carnal people can't obey a spiritual law.

Only the Holy Spirit can obey Gods Law. Because Gods Law is the description of, the picture of, the Holy Spirit. The only way we can have the work of the Holy Spirit in our hearts and lives is by faith in Christ. No amount of your own will or strength can achieve that.

Ephesians 2:8-10
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


What an amazing gift.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#11
2 Corinthians 3:6

"Who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."
Yes. Sin uses the law to kill us.
In the op's defense, I understand what he is saying. Somewhat, anyway.
Without this Spirit, we will just keep insisting on the worlds definition of murder instead of our Lords' definition.
The result is to say we have not sinned - we have not murdered anyone.
But murder is enmity against Gods law, against God.
Without this Spirit in us, convincing us of our murders and helping us by changing our mind and heart, we would keep on murdering and thinking it was not murder. So the law is impossible to keep except as this Spirit makes it possible by changing us - not just our heart but our mind too because His thoughts are so far above and superior to ours.

Keeping Gods laws is not evil.In fact, ONLY by the Spirit He gives to us ARE we able to keep His laws.
His intent is not that we don't keep His law.

it is that we TRULY keep it, by this Spirit in us.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#12
That the Law kills does not make the Law evil. Again, the problem isn't with the Law, but with us.
God's law is not the murderer, but believing in all the lies of the Devil which lead to sin and death is. The law just exposes what is already present in the world, which is death by sin.
 
Feb 11, 2016
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#13
It just looks to me (on this post) as somewhat of a mix up on words chosen, because sin by the commandment did slay (but the law is not a murderer) and the law is not death but is called the ministration of death.

I wouldnt even know where to begin to step into this thread lol
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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#14
It just looks to me (on this post) as somewhat of a mix up on words chosen, because sin by the commandment did slay (but the law is not a murderer) and the law is not death but is called the ministration of death.

I wouldnt even know where to begin to step into this thread lol
I think it is really difficult to talk about Gods Law.

It is hard to show how good His Law is but that our work at it doesn't do any good. Because our understanding of what the Law actually says is flawed.

Because we are using our understanding... lol
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#15
God's law is not the murderer, but believing in all the lies of the Devil which lead to sin and death is. The law just exposes what is already present in the world, which is death by sin.
Romans 7:9

"Once I was alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died."

2 Corinthians 3:7

"Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone......"
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#16
It just looks to me (on this post) as somewhat of a mix up on words chosen, because sin by the commandment did slay (but the law is not a murderer) and the law is not death but is called the ministration of death.

I wouldnt even know where to begin to step into this thread lol
Just look at it like this......
Sin taking occasion by God's commandments is like the serpent took occasion by God's commandment to deceive Eve and Adam and kill them by sin, which came by transgressing God's commandment for them not to eat. God's commandment not to eat was for their own benefit, but death came when they were deceived and sinned against God's commandment. So the evil is sin, not God's commandments, which just exposes and condemns sin.
Again, it wasn't God's commandment that killed them, death didn't come until after they had sinned against the commandment of God. Satan knew this, and so he used the commandment of God as an instrument against them in order to minister death by deception and sin.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#17
Romans 7:9

"Once I was alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died."
That's right, you didn't even know you were already dead in your sins and trespasses until you saw the holy commandments of God. Again, the law of God just exposes sin and the wage thereof, which is death, and it also makes us aware of the need for a Savior to set us free from sin and death.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#18
I forgot to explain how it is that I understand the op because I was too busy yappin! Oh, lol!
Here is why I understand him-the prime argument HAS become grace vs the law. TO the exclusion of all the rest of it.
For example, someone has finally gotten that they cannot be good, DESPITE their true knowledge that they must be holy because God is holy.
So when they make a plea for help to understand, they AREN'T stuck in works. They really do get it. They have seen (by wearing themselves out over and over again) that there is no capability in them to be anything but surface good for mans approval. But the Spirit keeps showing them their hypocrisy. And they begin to hunger for true righteousness within them, in their heart, as the Spirit leads always to their heart and what it always tries to cover up.

But their plea for help is not met with help. A huge argument with all the same people from the two teams happens once again. Same exact cast of characters. Same exact viciousness. Same exact lack of love and belittling and name calling.

They could be helped in their walk. They could be told, STAY in the place you now are. STAY there and keep asking for Him to have mercy on you and look on your poverty of spirit even WHILE you know you have His Spirit because He comes and eats a meal with you often. They could be helped if we would tell them, STAY in this place of humbling, KEEP pleading for help and mercy.

But they are sometimes told they are just believing a lie of the enemy and that they AREN'T any longer sinning and they just need to start believing it. But they CAN''T because at the same time they are being told this, the Holy Spirit is SHOWING them their hatreds and murders of heart.

And sometimes, they are told they're stuck in works. And they answer, no, I am not. I did used to be, when I kept gritting my teeth and trying harder to be loving and kind and good even though the Spirit kept revealing to me that my HEART wasn't in line. So I once and for all gave UP on trying to be good - so can someone else please tell me - what now? I am very odious to myself and I am in a depressed state and feeling no hope that He will ever grant me virtue. And the answer by some is that they are STILL in works, when it is plain that they aren't.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#19
For a long time I really did not understand where the Christian stood with regards to the law knowing that we are saved by grace through faith and no longer under the law.

Bertie Brits (Dynamic Ministries) I believe he does an excellent job looking at the law, old and new testament, and the work of Jesus. If you have time this is a video of his I think is well worth the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZmwLbnpu7E

Here is a quick print version
https://www.dynamicministries.com/sunday-service-archive/popup/text/print/611.html

Angela
 
Feb 11, 2016
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#20
I think it is really difficult to talk about Gods Law.

It is hard to show how good His Law is but that our work at it doesn't do any good. Because our understanding of what the Law actually says is flawed.

Because we are using our understanding... lol
Yeah because it it actually against what is not sound doctrine also

1 Ti 1:8
But we know that the law is good,
if a man use it lawfully;

1 Ti 1:9-10
Knowing this,
that the law is not made for a righteous man,
but for the lawless and disobedient,
for the ungodly and for sinners,
for unholy and profane,
for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers,
for manslayers,
for whoremongers,
for them that defile themselves with mankind,
for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons,
and if there be
any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Made for anything that is contrary to sound doctrine, and its not against the promises of God either

Gal 3:21
Is the law then against the promises of God?

God forbid:

for if
there had been a law given which could have given life,
verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Gal 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin,
that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Gal 3:23
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Gal 3:24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:25
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


Which seems to be in accord with the law and the testimony as was posted earlier by HRFTD, as one is perfect to the converting of the soul (but the law just made nothing perfect) it says the better hope did, the latter (shown as the testimony) is shown as sure (even having also the more sure word)

Psalm 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, ((( converting the soul ))) the testimony of the LORD ((( is sure ))) making wise the simple

Even Peter's more sure word of prophecy, as the testimony of Christ is the spirit of prophecy

Gal 3:24
Wherefore the law ((( was our schoolmaster ))) to bring us unto Christ, that ((we might be justified)) by faith.

They are both a light (as one to the other and the greater in the other)

To the law and to the testimony...


Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is ((( no light ))) in them


Isaiah 8:16
Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.


1Cr 1:6
Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:


John 3:3
He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.


But the wording here is so perfectly put

Psalm 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, ((( converting the soul )))
the testimony of the LORD is sure, ((( making wise the simple )))

As the sure
is with the testimony

2Peter 1:19
We have(((also))) a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed,
as unto a light
that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

The testimony of Jesus Christ is the spirit of prophecy as well (and as unto a light) as the law and testimony are light

There is a dynamic between the two and to where we might be also, whether still in the flesh or otherwise. Its good to look at these things.