Mysticism & righteousness

[PeterJens]

A dispute has arisen among people who appear to be the same in faith but are not.

The mystic

An encounter with God changes your heart. You are given a new heart born into his Kingdom and
can never leave. No matter what you do you are safe.
The ethic is the encounter, and then subsequent encounters which change you, not of your will
but some strange force which is not interlectual, or chosen, or definable.

Righteousness

God is righteous, holy, just, loving, the source of all.
We as sinners who repent of our sins, trust on Christ for the forgiveness of sins, are empowered
through following and love in our hearts to walk righteously. It is a hard battle to transformation
but we come out holy, righteous, redeemed people.
This is the world of choice and will, of repentance and confession, getting yourself right with God.

Biblical detail is best laid out be Ezekiel

But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die.

None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live.

Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
Ezek 18:21-23

But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live?

None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered.

Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
Ezek 18:24

The road is simple. Repent and walk in righteousness to gain life with Christ.
Walk in sin and face judgement.

It is through faith in the forgiveness offered in the Cross that we gain forgiveness so we can
walk in righteousness, consciously, choosing ourselves, not imputed, or adopted, holy living.

There are those who say if you taste of God, you are eternal and will never face judgement.

This is heresy and mysticism and a different faith.

The heretics use hyper-legalism to say all the prophets were lost, the Jews were lost and only after
the cross is the kingdom real. They are forever bounded in invented sin, which they can never
be free from so without imputed righteousness they are dead. Problem is in heaven these same
sins will occur, which is impossible for them to be sins.

So I call you as Jesus did, repent of your sins as God has defined and walk in righteousness,
there is no other way to salvation.

Mysticism can take christian language, but it shows itself when the real differences are talked
about, like repentance, holiness, purity, integrity, honesty, truth. They regard themselves
constant sinners daily, hourly, by the minute. Invented sins, thoughts, intentions, hopes,
fears, passing fancies. Rather than temptations or passing feelings, these are sins.

And they make us to be evil, legalists, rule makers, self justifiers, hyprocrites who live in sin
but ignore it. They alone are truly born again with the mystical new perfect heart dwelling
in a sinful body. Their aspiration is to dwell in their new mystical being and leave the rest
behind.

There are similar tensions in christian life, with emotional impulses, setting order and appropriatness
in ones own heart, but it is accepting our bodies as holy vessels and being the redeemed righteous
bride of Christ, fully acceptable as His loving holy people is what we are today, in the here and now.

This is the word of the Lord.

 

[TonyJay]

In your footnote you have "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you"

Given what you have written above in your post what exactly does that mean???

 

[Grace777x70]

It looks like Ezekiel, Paul, and Peter were "mystics" because they all talked about the new heart that would come from being "in Christ".

The understanding of what happened to us when we received Christ should be known by every believer. We are a new creations in Christ.

Without the understanding of the new heart in Christ I can understand why the gospel is a mystery to some and their need to humanize the gospel and turn it into a flesh trip becomes evident.

This philosophy of man is what we end up with when we don't understand the new birth in Christ and what the scriptures actually say about the believer in Christ.

The believers new heart in Christ is created in righteousness and holiness: First it was prophesied in the Old Testament.

Ezekiel 36:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone ( old man ) from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. ( new man in Christ )


Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
By grace we have been given a new heart that is obedient.

Romans 6:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

God cleaned house and moved in. God will not dwell in unrighteousness. God through the Holy Spirit is in our inner man now.

Ephesians 3:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,

[SUP]17 [/SUP] so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

God sealed us and gave us the Holy Spirit in our new hearts.

2 Corinthians 1:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

We have the Spirit of God's Son in our hearts now.

Galatians 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

God has cleansed our hearts by faith.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love from our hearts now as it is pure.

1 Timothy 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

2 Timothy 2:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. (this is a believer in Christ..hang around them )

1 Peter 3:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.

There are more but this should work to show that the believer has a new heart in Christ.

We still have the flesh to deal with in our bodies and if we are admonished to not to yield to that...but all that is a different subject.

 

[PeterJens]

This is much similarity in mystical thought and christian thought.

The key difference is judgement, and what sin actually is. A mystical union does not make you
righteous or saved. You are saved because you have become a righteous follower of Christ.
Past sins forgiven and you do not sin. Sin here is blatant breaking of relationships, damage
done, people and God hurt. This is not airy fairy I got a little annoyed, or I borrowed a pen,
or I was rude to someone. This is intentional evil, fantisied hatred, murder, theft. It is about
love in the heart seeing need and meeting it. It is about becoming a light in the darkness,
reaching out to the lonely, the weak, the poor, the destitute and not caring for success or
the world.

These are the heart beat of the church for thousands of years. It is what we died for, it is
the light that wakes us in the morning and to which we go to bed at night. It is our lifeblood
that we take to our graves and to the gates of heaven. It is how heaven touches earth.

Now the mystics say I am denying the power of the gospel, that I am a degenerate,
corrupting the bible and faith with hypocracy.

Now I understand this attempt at an accusation, but to one who is preaching righteousness
and holiness it does not work. It is slander and ill will. It also demonstrates how deeply this
idiology has come into the church and how these people call themselves brothers and sisters
in Christ, yet are enemies of the very gospel they claim.

This is not idle war, or spiritual minor compromise. Pastors who live in adultery and fornication
are no problem. Any sexual relationship is ok, because love is expressed in all emotional
outpourings from the mystical union.

Greed and wealth, success are a badge of Gods blessing and you are a fool not to claim
it yourself, it is your mystical inheritence. Rather than rejecting the world and its desires
they embrace them with the mantra we are mystically born to dominate the world, in the
latter rain, as super beings with the nations at our feet.

How many congregations now listen to mystic prophets speaking from the dead infront
of their eyes?

How many people claim they have mystical command authority to command things into being?

How many claim kingdom authority because a mystical angel visited and left gems behind?

How many prophets who go into congregations and mystically tell who should divorce who and remarry?

And this is from God and not a different faith? Who has bewitched you?

Repent and turn to God and ask for forgiveness. Seek His faith is humbleness and meekness so that
he might pour wisdom into our hearts and spirits and we might live as He desires.

So many are lost believing they are saved, doomed to hell on a false faith in mysticism.

 

[TonyJay]

I would really like you to explain the meaning of "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you"

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is what the scriptures say about righteousness and believers that are "in Christ" now. Everyone can believe what they want too but I'd rather stick to the Holy Spirit then to my own humanistic thinking.

The understanding of the new creation in Christ and the new identity of the believer is paramount to living the true Christian life.

We don't become righteousness because we do "righteous deeds" - we have become righteous because of what Jesus already did for us. This should be fundamental Christianity and not human philosophy that we live by.


Here it says our spirit ( the inner person that is a new creation in Christ ) is alive because of righteousness that it is it.

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin,yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Here righteousness is a gift - you don't earn it.

Romans 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

We have grace reigning in our lives because of righteousness in us.

Romans 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21[/SUP] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Here righteousness comes by faith.

Romans 9:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Here when we believe - we are righteousness.

Romans 10:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We are in the kingdom of God which is righteousness.

Romans 14:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17[/SUP] For the kingdom of God ( Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within you..He might know a thing or two ) is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Here it says that God made us righteousness in Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This says we have become the righteousness of Christ ( this is called a dependent clause in the greek - it is determined as fulfilled because Christ became sin )

2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Believers are called righteousness.

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?


Here it is saying that "righteousness comes by Christ".

Galatians 2:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Here we have the breastplate of righteousness - which is the armor of God that we are to be strong in.

Ephesians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, andhaving on the breastplate of righteousness;

This talks about the new man in Christ - the new creation.

Ephesians 4:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

Ok..that's enough..there are tons more.... It looks like the scriptures are just filled with all this "mystic stuff".

 

[PeterJens]

It looks like Ezekiel, Paul, and Peter were "mystics" because they all talked about the new heart that would come from being "in Christ".

The problem with this language is it is a distortion by mystics. A new heart is a changed heart, not something outside your body that is implanted from heaven.

I saw a program on the Sid Roth show where a "prophet" said the audience could get a new heart from heaven which would change them. This is a mystical concept alien to scripture.

God has not changed from the old testament to the new. Righteousness is the message gain through repentance and sacrifice. Before Christ it was sacrifice in the temple, after it is sacrifice of Christ on the cross.

The fact that Grace7 is arguing here on behalf of the mystics is because he is one and is not honest enough to admit it.

They will claim their faith is the Jewish and Christian faith, but it never has been, it is just opportune at this point in history to hi-jack the christian form and turn into their faith.

Much can be hidden and the language is similar but at the crucial points it shows itself.

Entering heaven is just about the mystical spirit in the beleiver not a living relationship in righteousness with God.

It matters zero to them if you are a mass murderer when you die, hating God and cursing everyone, you are saved because of your mystical spirit and that is justice and how God works.

Now they know how serious this divide is, which is why I am called evil, a work of satan. Make no mistake they are not my brothers or sisters and they intend to defame and decry all the precepts and concepts our our God the King.

Judgement has always been on them, so it makes no difference, the lost and always lost until they turn and walk with Christ.

 

[PeterJens]

In your footnote you have "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you"
Given what you have written above in your post what exactly does that mean???

Grace is the gift of Christ to earth that we might be saved. That is Gods love and desire that we might draw near to Him and enter heaven.

Hyper-grace is a different meaning to grace to the exclusion of other concepts.

 

[BeyondET]

A dispute has arisen among people who appear to be the same in faith but are not.

The mystic

An encounter with God changes your heart. You are given a new heart born into his Kingdom and
can never leave. No matter what you do you are safe.
The ethic is the encounter, and then subsequent encounters which change you, not of your will
but some strange force which is not interlectual, or chosen, or definable.

Righteousness

God is righteous, holy, just, loving, the source of all.
We as sinners who repent of our sins, trust on Christ for the forgiveness of sins, are empowered
through following and love in our hearts to walk righteously. It is a hard battle to transformation
but we come out holy, righteous, redeemed people.
This is the world of choice and will, of repentance and confession, getting yourself right with God.

Biblical detail is best laid out be Ezekiel

But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die.

None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live.

Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?
Ezek 18:21-23

But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live?

None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered.

Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
Ezek 18:24

The road is simple. Repent and walk in righteousness to gain life with Christ.
Walk in sin and face judgement.

It is through faith in the forgiveness offered in the Cross that we gain forgiveness so we can
walk in righteousness, consciously, choosing ourselves, not imputed, or adopted, holy living.

There are those who say if you taste of God, you are eternal and will never face judgement.

This is heresy and mysticism and a different faith.

The heretics use hyper-legalism to say all the prophets were lost, the Jews were lost and only after
the cross is the kingdom real. They are forever bounded in invented sin, which they can never
be free from so without imputed righteousness they are dead. Problem is in heaven these same
sins will occur, which is impossible for them to be sins.

So I call you as Jesus did, repent of your sins as God has defined and walk in righteousness,
there is no other way to salvation.

Mysticism can take christian language, but it shows itself when the real differences are talked
about, like repentance, holiness, purity, integrity, honesty, truth. They regard themselves
constant sinners daily, hourly, by the minute. Invented sins, thoughts, intentions, hopes,
fears, passing fancies. Rather than temptations or passing feelings, these are sins.

And they make us to be evil, legalists, rule makers, self justifiers, hyprocrites who live in sin
but ignore it. They alone are truly born again with the mystical new perfect heart dwelling
in a sinful body. Their aspiration is to dwell in their new mystical being and leave the rest
behind.

There are similar tensions in christian life, with emotional impulses, setting order and appropriatness
in ones own heart, but it is accepting our bodies as holy vessels and being the redeemed righteous
bride of Christ, fully acceptable as His loving holy people is what we are today, in the here and now.

This is the word of the Lord.

Not quite getting who it is you are having a dispute with, is it with mystic people were does scripture support this notion on mystic people?? I'm looking for exact verses with the use of mystic in it.

you listed two verses are you saying the whole thread is the Word of the Lord??

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is one more from the OT - Isaiah 54: 17 of the Lord telling what the believer would have because of what Christ did in Isaiah 53 when He died on the cross to take away our sin and make us righteous in Him. ( I never thought about it but now Isaiah is a "mystic" too )

Isaiah 54:17

[SUP]17 [/SUP] "No weapon that is formed against you will prosper; And every tongue that accuses you in judgment you will condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, And their righteousness is from Me," declares the LORD.

Folks we have a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ!

Ephesians 3:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ,

We do not become righteous by doing righteous things - any moral religion in the world can do that. We become righteous by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ and by repenting and "believing" the gospel of the grace of Christ.

 

[tanakh]

It looks like Ezekiel, Paul, and Peter were "mystics" because they all talked about the new heart that would come from being "in Christ".

The understanding of what happened to us when we received Christ should be known by every believer. We are a new creations in Christ.

Without the understanding of the new heart in Christ I can understand why the gospel is a mystery to some and their need to humanize the gospel and turn it into a flesh trip becomes evident.

This philosophy of man is what we end up with when we don't understand the new birth in Christ and what the scriptures actually say about the believer in Christ.

The believers new heart in Christ is created in righteousness and holiness: First it was prophesied in the Old Testament.

Ezekiel 36:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone ( old man ) from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. ( new man in Christ )


Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
By grace we have been given a new heart that is obedient.

Romans 6:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

God cleaned house and moved in. God will not dwell in unrighteousness. God through the Holy Spirit is in our inner man now.

Ephesians 3:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,

[SUP]17 [/SUP] so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

God sealed us and gave us the Holy Spirit in our new hearts.

2 Corinthians 1:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

We have the Spirit of God's Son in our hearts now.

Galatians 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

God has cleansed our hearts by faith.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love from our hearts now as it is pure.

1 Timothy 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

2 Timothy 2:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. (this is a believer in Christ..hang around them )

1 Peter 3:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.

There are more but this should work to show that the believer has a new heart in Christ.

We still have the flesh to deal with in our bodies and if we are admonished to not to yield to that...but all that is a different subject.

It comes down to knowing who we are in Christ. Do we have a Father Son relationship or a Master Bondservant one?
Before Abraham had Children he thought he would have to leave everything to his Servant. Then God promised him a Son
who would inherit everything. That Son was Isaac. Abraham tried to do things his own way and had Ishmail as his Son through Hagar. Because Ishmail was a son of Hagar a Bondservant he did not fulfill Gods promise. Many Christians see themselves as Bondservants thats why they lose out on the blessings God has for them. The way we see ourselves is how we will experience our Christian lives.

 

[TonyJay]

Peter, I know the definition of grace and this is not it!

Try going to the Oxford dictionary and looking it up.
Once you have got a handle on that perhaps then we can try applying it in a theological context.

Tony Jay

 

[PeterJens]

Mystical defence

Humanistic thinking. Accepting we are humans, and our human body, our human spirits, are acceptable to God and saved, righteous and holy. This is what they mean by humanistic thinking.

In the mystical mind only things from heaven are holy and true. Gnostics were the ultimate mystics, believing the body was totally evil, and Christ only seemed to be on earth.

The gospel says Jesus was fully man, and righteous and holy. Because He could be all these things, and dwell in communion with the Lord so can we. It is this reality that gives us hope and faith.

The mystics on the other hand cannot believe they can ever be truly righteous and holy, because they are sinners who sin all the time. It is this reality that makes Christ so fantastic, not that he came as a man to show us we are loved and can choose to follow, choose to be righteous, choose to open up your hearts, choose to read and dwell with Him and choose to walk away. God gives us all these rights, and to be called His friends.

We are friends with God, not just servants, but His friends. Do you comprehend how the creator of all could call you a friend? How many true friends have you got? A few? Any?

God has said you are His friend if you do as He commands.

 

[BeyondET]

Mystical defence

Humanistic thinking. Accepting we are humans, and our human body, our human spirits, are acceptable to God and saved, righteous and holy. This is what they mean by humanistic thinking.

In the mystical mind only things from heaven are holy and true. Gnostics were the ultimate mystics, believing the body was totally evil, and Christ only seemed to be on earth.

The gospel says Jesus was fully man, and righteous and holy. Because He could be all these things, and dwell in communion with the Lord so can we. It is this reality that gives us hope and faith.

The mystics on the other hand cannot believe they can ever be truly righteous and holy, because they are sinners who sin all the time. It is this reality that makes Christ so fantastic, not that he came as a man to show us we are loved and can choose to follow, choose to be righteous, choose to open up your hearts, choose to read and dwell with Him and choose to walk away. God gives us all these rights, and to be called His friends.

We are friends with God, not just servants, but His friends. Do you comprehend how the creator of all could call you a friend? How many true friends have you got? A few? Any?

God has said you are His friend if you do as He commands.

Wheres scripture about mystic,, quite frankly your hiding behind your beef with people that's what it's all about truly you don't want answer your post on the word of God as you say in the opening whole thread was the word of God

 

[Grace777x70]

It comes down to knowing who we are in Christ. Do we have a Father Son relationship or a Master Bondservant one?
Before Abraham had Children he thought he would have to leave everything to his Servant. Then God promised him a Son
who would inherit everything. That Son was Isaac. Abraham tried to do things his own way and had Ishmail as his Son through Hagar. Because Ishmail was a son of Hagar a Bondservant he did not fulfill Gods promise. Many Christians see themselves as Bondservants thats why they lose out on the blessings God has for them. The way we see ourselves is how we will experience our Christian lives.

Well said!....it's really a Father-son relationship which is why He gave us a new heart in Christ. ( it appears you are one of those "mystics" too that believe in the gospel of Christ )

I liked what you said about Abraham. He tried to "do the word of God" in his own self-effort and created an Ishmael. God doesn't recognize when we do things in the flesh - by our own human self-effort - even when trying to fulfill the word of God.

The Lord waited until Abraham and Sarah couldn't have a baby - then He came and provided the power to conceive.

God said to Abraham " Take your son, your "only" son..." God doesn't recognize what we do in our flesh in our self-effort. No flesh will glory in His presence.

 

[PeterJens]

Not quite getting who it is you are having a dispute with, is it with mystic people were does scripture support this notion on mystic people?? I'm looking for exact verses with the use of mystic in it.
you listed two verses are you saying the whole thread is the Word of the Lord??

Mysticism is the belief in super-spiritual events which are the only important aspect of life.

The hyper-grace movement is a mystical theology wrapped in christian dress.

It opposes walking in righteousness, moral law and calls this legalism.

The Lords word is to be saved we must walk in righteousness. You cannot be saved and abide in sin.

 

[PeterJens]

Wheres scripture about mystic,, quite frankly your hiding behind your beef with people that's what it's all about truly you don't want answer your post on the word of God as you say in the opening whole thread was the word of God

Quite frankly you do not understand mysticism. I suggest you go and study why the church had a problem with the gnostics.

Maybe you are partly a mystic yourself, I do not know.

Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord; because of these same detestable practices the Lord your God will drive out those nations before you. You must be blameless before the Lord your God.
Deut 18:10-13

I saw a recent video of a prophet talking to christians with message from the dead. This is being a medium and spiritist.

Though this is sin, the church called this spiritual behaviour. That is how far this thinking and behaviour has gone.

 

[Grace777x70]

And this below is the difference between "works righteousness" and faith righteousness for salvation. ( as in going to be with the Lord when we die )

In the Old - you "did in order to get" In the New Covenant " you believe in order to receive" what Christ has already done. It's called the "word of faith" and it's enacted by speaking.

This is where works-based salvationists have a hard time with the gospel of the grace of Christ alone for salvation. They are mixing the covenants up and trying to do things in order to get and maintain salvation.

The pure gospel of the grace of Christ is offensive to this mindset and thus they need to do things in order to establish and maintain their own righteousness for salvation just like it was commanded in the Old Covenant.

In the New Covenant we receive Christ's righteousness because we believe NOT because "we do".


Doing righteous deeds by themselves does not make one righteous. This is having the cart before the horse.

I know there have been "good" people doing "righteous deeds " but they were not belonging to God. Many religions have moral living people in them - all doing "righteous deeds".

Here is how righteousness is manifested to a believer....we need to be righteousness conscious...not sin-conscious...we have a new creation in Christ now!

This "righteousness " that we already have now in our new creation ( the inner man ) is because we are in Christ - will manifest outwardly in doing righteous deeds - but we need the "horse" in front first.

The "horse" being Christ's righteousness in us because of our being in Christ in our inner man..our new creation in Christ.

Awake to who you are in Christ!..Awake to righteousness and sin not..when you see who you are in Him in your new man..you become like Him outwardly.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Baby Christians do not understand the word of righteousness and thus try to establish their own.

Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 54:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "In righteousness you will be established; You will be far from oppression, for you will not fear; And from terror, for it will not come near you.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21[/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

When you see who you are in Christ because of His finished work...you become outwardly in behavior what you are truly like in your new inner man where Christ dwells.

 

[PeterJens]

Peter, I know the definition of grace and this is not it!
Try going to the Oxford dictionary and looking it up.
Once you have got a handle on that perhaps then we can try applying it in a theological context.
Tony Jay

Sorry for upsetting you. This is my defintion of how I use the word grace. Language is about the meaning you put on words. It is not a set of laws etc. You obviously do not like what I am sharing. I suggest you repent and seek Gods face.

It is not any clearer than I have shared.

 

[PeterJens]

Dear reader,

Grace7 is very scared. He believes showing the difference between His faith and ours will doom
people to hell forever.

He claims God alone chooses and teaches, yet he behaves like everything depends upon his
arguments and teaching.

I on the other hand believe we have choices to make and preaching repent and walk in
righteousness is the gospel. Without it there is no hope.

My point is made the choice is yours. I am here just to shine a light so you are no
longer innocent.