How does this passage relate to your belief system?

[DP]

I'll bite

what?

Paul taught in 1 Timothy that the law was not made for the righteous, but for the ungodly, the lawless, etc.

Do we still have the lawless and ungodly among us today? Yes. Thus not all of God's law is done away with, but only those things which our Lord Jesus nailed upon His cross, which were about the ordinances in the law. This is why Paul showed us there 1 Timothy that those who continue in those things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Willie-T]

The woman with the issue of blood:

Matthew 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.



The man let down through a hole in the roof:

Luke 5:20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.



Woman washing feet of Jesus with her hair:

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

I know exactly what they said. That is the very reason I chose them as examples. Showing that "faith" was not the regimented and ritualistically structured "approaching" Jesus as only we are told to do it in Scripture.

There is only one approach to God. And that is by faith. God speaks to us (either by way of our reading His written Word or someone speaking what is written in His Word). We hear and we either do as God desires or we do as we desire.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

k. faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

somehow Cain and Abel heard from God as to offerings. Scripture is unclear whether they "heard" from God or whether Adam/Eve "heard" from God and taught their children. (Personally I believe Cain/Abel "heard" through Adam as Adam was the patriarch at that time, but I'm not going to argue the point. they could just as well have "heard" directly from God).

Abel responded by faith (Heb 11:4) and Cain did not.

As to those who approached Jesus in an unconventional manner, did God tell them to do that? Or did they, in their complete and utter desperation (and recognition of Jesus as Lord), seek Him in the only way they could think of at the time?

My point was (and is), faith is an absolute necessity in our approach to Father

I apologize if I was unclear on that point.

 

[valiant]

God revealed what was wrong with Cain's offering when God revealed why He had respect for Abel's offering. Cain refused to bring a blood offering.

there is nothing in the passage that says God required a blood offering'

Each brought a minchah of the fruit he had produced. A minchah can be either blood offering or cereal offering.

The reason Cain's offering was unacceptable was that he 'had not done well'.

you should not read back later teaching

 

[badger58]

These verses give me hope, because I know, without a doubt that God heard that prayer, and every other prayer added to the altar of incense. Keep praying for Israel!

 

[Willie-T]

there is nothing in the passage that says God required a blood offering'

Each brought a minchah of the fruit he had produced. A minchah can be either blood offering or cereal offering.

The reason Cain's offering was unacceptable was that he 'had not done well'.

you should not read back later teaching

Exactly. And I believe all of it must have had something to do with something negative that was growing in Cain's heart, since they both appear to have been giving God "offerings" for some time, and it was THIS particular time that God didn't respect Cain, nor what was probably his usual and standard offering. (The first-fruits of his labor) After all, God was not all that big into offerings, since He tells us several times in the bible that He never wanted sacrifice, but rather, mercy.

 

[oldethennew]

perhaps Willie,

you have already answered your own question!!!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Exactly. And I believe all of it must have had something to do with something negative that was growing in Cain's heart, since they both appear to have been giving God "offerings" for some time, and it was THIS particular time that God didn't respect Cain, nor what was probably his usual and standard offering. (The first-fruits of his labor) After all, God was not all that big into offerings, since He tells us several times in the bible that He never wanted sacrifice, but rather, mercy.

Cain did not bring his offering in faith.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[LaurenTM]

Paul taught in 1 Timothy that the law was not made for the righteous, but for the ungodly, the lawless, etc.

Do we still have the lawless and ungodly among us today? Yes. Thus not all of God's law is done away with, but only those things which our Lord Jesus nailed upon His cross, which were about the ordinances in the law. This is why Paul showed us there 1 Timothy that those who continue in those things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I am not understanding the point you are trying to make or how it applies to the op?

If I understand what the law was actually for, it was given to show sins (simple explanation) so that no one would have an excuse as Paul says in Galatians 3

19Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. 20A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one.

21Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

so I am not understanding why you say the law is for the ungodly since it was given to Israel

I also don't understand the connection to the op

perhaps you could explain?

 

[Willie-T]

Cain did not bring his offering in faith.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Read on just a couple more verses in Genesis (where you were quoting) and you will find that it wasn't long, at all, after that "offering scene", till Cain killed Able.

There was something evil already going on in Cain's heart...... and God knew it. He didn't just up and decide to kill his brother.

 

[Willie-T]

k. faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

somehow Cain and Abel heard from God as to offerings. Scripture is unclear whether they "heard" from God or whether Adam/Eve "heard" from God and taught their children. (Personally I believe Cain/Abel "heard" through Adam as Adam was the patriarch at that time, but I'm not going to argue the point. they could just as well have "heard" directly from God).

Abel responded by faith (Heb 11:4) and Cain did not.

As to those who approached Jesus in an unconventional manner, did God tell them to do that? Or did they, in their complete and utter desperation (and recognition of Jesus as Lord), seek Him in the only way they could think of at the time?

My point was (and is), faith is an absolute necessity in our approach to Father

I apologize if I was unclear on that point.

No apology needed. It might have been easier to just say that, rather than pushing the "having to do things just as it was written... or that someone read to us." This is what has gotten the Catholic church in the mess of believing they are required to follow a bunch of rules to be accepted.

 

[TonyJay]

Paul taught in 1 Timothy that the law was not made for the righteous, but for the ungodly, the lawless, etc.

Do we still have the lawless and ungodly among us today? Yes. Thus not all of God's law is done away with, but only those things which our Lord Jesus nailed upon His cross, which were about the ordinances in the law. This is why Paul showed us there 1 Timothy that those who continue in those things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

DP I believe that you have truly misinterpreted this scripture.

Do you honestly believe that Paul is contradicting himself?
Paul clearly puts the Law in its content in Romans, Galatians, and Ephesians.

The Law has not passed away!
The Law is still in place.
It is still there as a tutor to the ungodly in order to show them that actually the path to righteousness is by grace through faith - just as it always was.

What Jesus did on the cross was to take the righteous demands of the Law on His shoulders. This was a vicarious act to spare us the righteous demands of the Law. This act was a comprehensive once-for-all fulfilment of the Law.
There never was any selective cherry-picking going on here.

One cannot interpret Paul's reference to the Law in 1 Tim 1:8-11 apart what Paul teaches about the Law in Romans, Galatians, and Ephesians.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

It shows two Roads.
The road of gravel.
The road of grace.

Yes,and grace equips us.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Read on just a couple more verses in Genesis (where you were quoting) and you will find that it wasn't long, at all, after that "offering scene", till Cain killed Able.

There was something evil already going on in Cain's heart...... and God knew it. He didn't just up and decide to kill his brother.

1 John 3:12 tells us why Cain killed Abel ... And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

 

[JaumeJ]

Sounds perfect to me..............thanks, and God bless you.

Romans 10:1-5 (KJV)

10 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.




Who's righteousness are you "going about to establish?

(Rom. 3:21-22, 4:5-6,13,22, 5:8-9, 17-21)

 

[reneweddaybyday]

No apology needed. It might have been easier to just say that, rather than pushing the "having to do things just as it was written... or that someone read to us." This is what has gotten the Catholic church in the mess of believing they are required to follow a bunch of rules to be accepted.

Well, Willie-T, I do believe Cain and Abel were taught God’s Word by Adam and Eve.

I believe that before mankind had the written Word, the Word was passed down orally from generation to generation as parents taught their children.

I have another question for you --- how did you come to faith? Did you pick up Scripture and start reading God’s Word or did someone speak the truth of God’s Word to you?

 

[Th0mas]

Matthew 12:10,11 & 12


and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Looking for a reason to bring charges against Jesus, they asked him, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?"
He said to them, "If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out?
How much more valuable is a person than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."

 

[Willie-T]

1 John 3:12 tells us why Cain killed Abel ... And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Exactly. His own work of bringing his usual sacrifice that day was evil..... because of his hardening heart that caused him, soon afterward, to kill his brother. If he had brought the wrong stuff, I think the Bible would have said so. No, I believe the right stuff was offered with a wrong heart motive.

 

[Willie-T]

No apology needed. It might have been easier to just say that, rather than pushing the "having to do things just as it was written... or that someone read to us." This is what has gotten the Catholic church in the mess of believing they are required to follow a bunch of rules to be accepted.

Well, Willie-T, I do believe Cain and Abel were taught God’s Word by Adam and Eve.

I believe that before mankind had the written Word, the Word was passed down orally from generation to generation as parents taught their children.

I have another question for you --- how did you come to faith? Did you pick up Scripture and start reading God’s Word or did someone speak the truth of God’s Word to you?

Now you are just hoping to get away with playing games.

Of course they could ONLY have heard the idea of offerings SPOKEN to them by either God or their parents. Since written language wouldn't be invented for thousands of years. The point of it being written or spoken is moot. You made a claim that they had information that offerings had to be done in a certain and specifically specified manner, or they would not be accepted.

And I said I do not believe that is why God did not respect Cain or his offering. I said I believe Cain had somehow developed an attitude that God couldn't respect, even if Cain tried to play it cool by bringing his usual religious work of giving an offering.

Are you serious when you say that Cain knew he had to kill and animal, but came up with the wild and crazy idea of just bringing some produce, hoping God wouldn't notice it was not an animal? Really?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Now you are just hoping to get away with playing games.

??? I have no idea what you mean here. I am discussing verses from Scripture. I asked you an honest question.

Of course they could ONLY have heard the idea of offerings SPOKEN to them by either God or their parents. Since written language wouldn't be invented for thousands of years.

The plan of redemption is written in the stars. That is what was "read" from generation to generation until written as instructed by God.

The point of it being written or spoken is moot. You made a claim that they had information that offerings had to be done in a certain and specifically specified manner, or they would not be accepted.

Right. And what I have iterated and reiterated is that in order to be accepted, Cain's offering was to have been made in faith.

And I said I do not believe that is why God did not respect Cain or his offering. I said I believe Cain had somehow developed an attitude that God couldn't respect, even if Cain tried to play it cool by bringing his usual religious work of giving an offering.

God did not have respect toward Cain's offering because Cain did not offer by faith.

Are you serious when you say that Cain knew he had to kill and animal, but came up with the wild and crazy idea of just bringing some produce, hoping God wouldn't notice it was not an animal? Really?

I never said Cain had to kill an animal. I maintain that Cain did not approach God in faith.