How does this passage relate to your belief system?

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Scriptureplz

Guest
#1
Romans 10:1-5 (KJV)

10 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.




Who's righteousness are you "going about to establish?

(Rom. 3:21-22, 4:5-6,13,22, 5:8-9, 17-21)
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#2
To me this scripture says that I must cease from my own works and to believe in what Christ has done. This makes me think of what the author of Hebrews was saying.

Hebrews 4:3 (NASB)

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, "AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST," although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 4:6 (NASB)

[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience, ( Greek word for disobedience = unbelief )

Hebrews 4:9-11 (NASB)

[SUP]9 [/SUP] So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience. ( disobedience in the Greek = unbelief )
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#3
Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

The record of Cain and Abel is a great example to us and shows us the two ways of approach to God (His way and man's way):

Genesis 4:

1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect.


We know that faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (Rom 10:17).

In order for Cain and Abel to have made offering to God, they must have heard from God as to how offering was to be made to Him. Otherwise, there would have been no obedience (Abel – God’s way) or disobedience (Cain – man’s way).

Abel believed what he heard from God and brought his offering as God had instructed.

Cain did not believe what he heard from God and brought his offering as he desired.

This record in Gen 4 is a prime example of man's doctrine being used in place of the commandment of God. And it is interesting that it is written all the way back in Gen 4. The record points out the internal dilemma within all mankind. Our intuitive desire to seek God by way of our own means as opposed to the way God desires us to approach Him.

There is only one approach to God. And that is by faith. God speaks to us (either by way of our reading His written Word or someone speaking what is written in His Word). We hear and we either do as God desires or we do as we desire.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#4
Romans 10:1-5 (KJV)

10 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.




Who's righteousness are you "going about to establish?

(Rom. 3:21-22, 4:5-6,13,22, 5:8-9, 17-21)
Reveals the apostles great burden for the lost. He knew that without Christ they would depart into the lake of fire for all eternity. Paul was willing to pay any price to testify of Jesus as Messiah the Savior who died and rose again that all who believe might have forgiveness of their sins and inherit eternal life.

Gives his preaching a certain urgency. Perhaps if the pulpits of today had urgency and burden for the lost we would influence the society instead of being indistinguishable from society.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#5
It shows two Roads.
The road of gravel.
The road of grace.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#6
Rdbd,
You've made quite a leap of assumption, based upon only one verse (the way MUCH erroneous doctrine is started, BTW.) All the Bible tells us is that: "5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect."

How do you justify that? It could be for any number of reasons occurring in the life and thoughts of Cain that God did not have respect for either him or his offering. The Bible does not tell us the offering was unacceptable... only that God did not respect Cain. And that He didn't respect his offering either.
 
T

Trail-of-Truth

Guest
#7
Romans 10:1-5 (KJV)

10 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

This makes me think of where the bible says that they can be grafted back into the vine, just as we are grafted into their vine. Because of Jesus, both Jew and Gentile need to be grafted into the vine. They are no longer automatically in the vine because Christ came to His own people, and His own people would not receive Him. So they need to be baptized into Christ just like the rest of us, and I hope for anyone that they might be saved.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

This reminds me of when Jesus said God only accepts worshippers who worship in spirit AND in truth. We must make sure our worship matches the bible, that the bible is our only doctrine. For God says, "They worship Me in vain, their doctrine is merely human rules."

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Ignorant of God's righteousness makes me think of how Christ was transferring us over to "the most excellent way" which is love- because if you truly love God and your neighbor, you won't need a list to say "do not steal... do not murder, etc" because that comes naturally when you love- therefore love fulfills the law, but in a spiritual way instead of a physical way.

They seek out to establish their own righteousness by completing a list instead of grasping the concept that effort is the evidence of love, that love is not the evidence of effort. It's like putting on a duck costume, and saying, "I look like a duck, walk like a duck, quack like a duck, so I must be a duck." Or in this case a sheep. But when we get baptized, feed on the word, and let the Spirit lead our minds instead of our flesh, we are a new creature- genuinely from the inside out.

God makes us righteous by sharing His righteousness with us, but it is not our own righteousness, nor can we attain it on our own. God is love, and God in us transforms us into a new creature, but if we won't transform He will "spit us out of His mouth." He will share His righteousness with us, but only if we conform to it. Our obedience does not earn, but He only shares His righteousness with those who give effort to obey Him.


[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Christ showed us how love fulfills the law- whips his the most excellent way, nothing further is needed, so Christ brought us to the end. As for the word "believeth" we must remember that a lot of things save- such as hearing, believing, repenting, confessing, baptism, etc, but none of these saves ALONE all by themselves. That's like saying "Breathing sustains life, not eating." They both sustain life, but if you choose only one of them you won't live long.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

In the Old Testament the law was done physically, and in the New Testament it is done spiritually, but it is the exact same law. The law is righteous, but the only One Who was able to fulfill it both physically and spiritually is Jesus Christ. Only He is righteous 100%. Abraham had faith, and that was accredited to him as righteousness, but he failed in other areas- for all sin and fall short. This is where Jesus comes in and completes our righteousness, but not for those who are not trying to be righteous.


Who's righteousness are you "going about to establish?

God's- because all sin and fall short, I cannot be 100% righteous in order to enter heaven unless God shares His righteousness with me- which He will not do if I don't even attempt to obey Him. He chooses who to give the gift to. Our obedience does not earn it, it can't, but those who strive to obey Him are the category of ones in which He chooses to give the gift. I am not earning His gift because nothing I could ever do or say can earn it. But He gives it to me because I try to obey Him- this is His decision on whom He chooses to give it to.

(Rom. 3:21-22, 4:5-6,13,22, 5:8-9, 17-21)
Qqqqqqqqqqqqqqq
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#8
Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

The record of Cain and Abel is a great example to us and shows us the two ways of approach to God (His way and man's way):

Genesis 4:

1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect.


We know that faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (Rom 10:17).

In order for Cain and Abel to have made offering to God, they must have heard from God as to how offering was to be made to Him. Otherwise, there would have been no obedience (Abel – God’s way) or disobedience (Cain – man’s way).

Abel believed what he heard from God and brought his offering as God had instructed.

Cain did not believe what he heard from God and brought his offering as he desired.

This record in Gen 4 is a prime example of man's doctrine being used in place of the commandment of God. And it is interesting that it is written all the way back in Gen 4. The record points out the internal dilemma within all mankind. Our intuitive desire to seek God by way of our own means as opposed to the way God desires us to approach Him.

There is only one approach to God. And that is by faith. God speaks to us (either by way of our reading His written Word or someone speaking what is written in His Word). We hear and we either do as God desires or we do as we desire.
Can you show us, in Scripture, where the woman with the issue of blood approached Jesus in a "prescribed" manner? Or the man let down through a hole in the roof? Or the prostitute washing His feet with her hair? Or, for that matter, MOST of the people who approached Jesus? (And, "Yes" we can go through the old testament, and find many similar incidents where humans broke all the "rules" when they approached God.)
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#9
Romans 3:20-31 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#10
Can you show us, in Scripture, where the woman with the issue of blood approached Jesus in a "prescribed" manner? Or the man let down through a hole in the roof? Or the prostitute washing His feet with her hair? Or, for that matter, MOST of the people who approached Jesus? (And, "Yes" we can go through the old testament, and find many similar incidents where humans broke all the "rules" when they approached God.)
As Renewed said, it is by faith..

Hebrews 11:6 KJVS
[6] But without faith it is impossible to please him : for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#11
Romans 10:1-5 (KJV)

10 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.




Who's righteousness are you "going about to establish?

(Rom. 3:21-22, 4:5-6,13,22, 5:8-9, 17-21)
Hi

I'm 'seeing' 2 questions here...the one for your op and the one you ask at the end of the verse from Romans

How does this passage relate to your belief system?


I'll answer this one if that's ok?

I would say that it seems you can have good intentions but good intentions...for example following a 'system', such as the laws God gave to Israel...or good or moral behavior, does not supply righteousness (maybe that reflects the 2nd question abit?)

I believe, that we cannot establish any kind of righteousness that equals God's righteousness not even by trying to fulfill the laws He gave to Israel. God is Holy. All that He is, is therefore Holy and I don't think we really understand that or we would not try to somehow make ourselves to be good to Him in any way.

So I could sum that up with v 4

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth

This verse also seems to be saying, or at least that is what I see when I consider it, that if you actually do believe...that is with SAVING FAITH, you understand that Jesus has fulfilled all of your obligations for you before God and there is nothing left for you to do with regards to BEING saved

I am only meaning the moment of being saved...not anything that comes after...I don't want to be misunderstood to mean that we do what we want afterwards...that is not saving faith either
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#12
As Renewed said, it is by faith..

Hebrews 11:6 KJVS
[6] But without faith it is impossible to please him : for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Unfortunately, if you will read her Post # 3..... despite her throwing in the word "faith", that is not what she is actually saying. It is written right there for you to read, she said that showing faith is to ONLY do things just exactly as God said they had to be done.

And those examples I gave were people NOT approaching our Lord as they were "instructed" to do. People came in true faith, trusting they would be received for their hearts, not for their perfect adherence to rules of "approaching."
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#13
Rdbd,
You've made quite a leap of assumption, based upon only one verse (the way MUCH erroneous doctrine is started, BTW.) All the Bible tells us is that: "5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect."

How do you justify that? It could be for any number of reasons occurring in the life and thoughts of Cain that God did not have respect for either him or his offering. The Bible does not tell us the offering was unacceptable... only that God did not respect Cain. And that He didn't respect his offering either.
God revealed what was wrong with Cain's offering when God revealed why He had respect for Abel's offering. Cain refused to bring a blood offering.

To him who knows right for him not to do it to him it is sin.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#14
God revealed what was wrong with Cain's offering when God revealed why He had respect for Abel's offering. Cain refused to bring a blood offering.

To him who knows right for him not to do it to him it is sin.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I apologize. I must have missed that verse where it said Cain refused to bring a blood offering.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#15
Thanks, B. I'll endeavor to search harder in the future.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#16
Thanks, B. I'll endeavor to search harder in the future.

I don't think all the hard searching is going to help you in this situation. You need to be able to "read" into what is said....and then come up with the same conclusions as others -..then you shall "know all things"......:)
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#17
Willie-T said:
Rdbd,
You've made quite a leap of assumption, based upon only one verse (the way MUCH erroneous doctrine is started, BTW.) All the Bible tells us is that: "5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect."
Hi Willie-T,

That is not all the Bible tells us:

Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.


1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.




Willie-T said:
How do you justify that? It could be for any number of reasons occurring in the life and thoughts of Cain that God did not have respect for either him or his offering. The Bible does not tell us the offering was unacceptable... only that God did not respect Cain. And that He didn't respect his offering either.
If Cain's offering had been acceptable, God would have had respect.

According to Hebrews 11:4, Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice and it was by faith.

According to 1 John 3:12, Cain's own works were evil.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#18
Willie-T said:
Can you show us, in Scripture, where the woman with the issue of blood approached Jesus in a "prescribed" manner? Or the man let down through a hole in the roof? Or the prostitute washing His feet with her hair? Or, for that matter, MOST of the people who approached Jesus? (And, "Yes" we can go through the old testament, and find many similar incidents where humans broke all the "rules" when they approached God.)
The woman with the issue of blood:

Matthew 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.



The man let down through a hole in the roof:

Luke 5:20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.



Woman washing feet of Jesus with her hair:

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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#19
Romans 10:1-5 (KJV)

10 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.




Who's righteousness are you "going about to establish?

(Rom. 3:21-22, 4:5-6,13,22, 5:8-9, 17-21)
For a Christian, the answer of course is Jesus Christ.

But exactly what did Apostle Paul teach us in 1 Timothy 1 about the law, showing us that Jesus did not nail all of God's law to His cross?
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#20
For a Christian, the answer of course is Jesus Christ.

But exactly what did Apostle Paul teach us in 1 Timothy 1 about the law, showing us that Jesus did not nail all of God's law to His cross?

I'll bite

what?