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I read the entire article and I noticed a straw man or two of their own against their opposition. Saying that the other side is opposed to repentance, for one. The other saying they put forth a gospel that only sees Jesus as Savior and not Lord. Both of which are false.
If Lordship Salvationists insist upon the necessity for sanctification as a prerequisite to salvation then they are in error. A saved person gets sanctified, if given the opportunity. I believe the article said something similar. So, I am not sure if there has been a misunderstanding all along or if the author has backpedaled on their stance.
If Lordship Salvationists insist upon the necessity for sanctification as a prerequisite to salvation then they are in error. A saved person gets sanctified, if given the opportunity. I believe the article said something similar. So, I am not sure if there has been a misunderstanding all along or if the author has backpedaled on their stance.
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More that repentance is defined differently (it's not a turning away from sin, but a turning away from unbelief that Jesus died on the cross for their sins) and accepting Jesus as Lord is optional, not required for salvation after people accept him as Savior.
I am still trying to understand how people can accept Jesus as Savior but not as Lord?
Also why wouldn't we want people to turn from sin?
Neither saves but both are present in a heart and life that has been born again.
Some say don't mix justification with santification. Lordship salvation says don't just stop at justification but continue onto santification by following the Holy Spirit.
I am still trying to understand how people can accept Jesus as Savior but not as Lord?
Also why wouldn't we want people to turn from sin?
Neither saves but both are present in a heart and life that has been born again.
Some say don't mix justification with santification. Lordship salvation says don't just stop at justification but continue onto santification by following the Holy Spirit.
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I think the real issue is...the desire within us to gather more than enough manna for the day.
Israel did this even though they were told not to. I think the real motive for this desire is to have a feeling of security APART from God. I guess you could say there s mistrust there. Like, yes, but what if He doesn't come through for me tomorrow? IF He doesn't, I'll need to fend for myself.
It seems like this is why the debate rages on - but if He is good, and merciful, beyond our ability to understand, why is it necessary to gather eternal salvation to ourselves and...grab and grub and demand that it must be ours no matter what we might do in the future? He IS the life and the salvation, every day He is. There is no life other than abiding in Him.
If we would trust Him for the next days provision, there is no need to gather more than enough for the day.
I just have this suspicion that we want to know we have salvation even apart from Him. But that is ridiculous, isn't it...?
If we abide, all things that are His are ours.
How could it GET more secure than that?
And why would you ever need to grab at a salvation status that is a possesion of your own even if you do not continue to abide unless...your plan was in fact to commit some rebellion?
Israel did this even though they were told not to. I think the real motive for this desire is to have a feeling of security APART from God. I guess you could say there s mistrust there. Like, yes, but what if He doesn't come through for me tomorrow? IF He doesn't, I'll need to fend for myself.
It seems like this is why the debate rages on - but if He is good, and merciful, beyond our ability to understand, why is it necessary to gather eternal salvation to ourselves and...grab and grub and demand that it must be ours no matter what we might do in the future? He IS the life and the salvation, every day He is. There is no life other than abiding in Him.
If we would trust Him for the next days provision, there is no need to gather more than enough for the day.
I just have this suspicion that we want to know we have salvation even apart from Him. But that is ridiculous, isn't it...?
If we abide, all things that are His are ours.
How could it GET more secure than that?
And why would you ever need to grab at a salvation status that is a possesion of your own even if you do not continue to abide unless...your plan was in fact to commit some rebellion?
Can you blame them? Its fruit has been revealed and people are still stuck in their sins. Obviously their definition of repentance hasn't set people free, but only allowed for Legalism and self-righteous pride. If a congregation is in sin, what is the solution? Do you hold up the law, say that it is a sin and then tell them to simply stop? If it were so easy, then the Israelites would've been blameless.
This methodology of dealing with sin through repentance, traditonally stated, has only kept people in their sins and allowed for them to try to stop sinning through a confidence in the flesh instead of a reliance on God. Morality doesn't sanctify us, God does. He sets us free. Putting up a list of do and don'ts has no power to set anyone free, it will only condemn them. True liberty, true freedom, is found under grace. Its what breaks sin's dominion.
This methodology of dealing with sin through repentance, traditonally stated, has only kept people in their sins and allowed for them to try to stop sinning through a confidence in the flesh instead of a reliance on God. Morality doesn't sanctify us, God does. He sets us free. Putting up a list of do and don'ts has no power to set anyone free, it will only condemn them. True liberty, true freedom, is found under grace. Its what breaks sin's dominion.
Grace isn't the absence of dos and don'ts in that of lawlessness (what you are insinuating), but the liberty given is to be set free from sin's dominion as opposed to being condemned under law. Grace is Jesus in that of what He represents to mankind, God extending grace. Jesus is love, and Jesus exemplifies grace. So if a person says grace isn't a doctrine but Jesus, its because they are emphasizing that Jesus represents God's grace in action. All that He stands for is gracious. VVe wouldn't be saved if it were not for the grace of God and Jesus is the extension of that grace to us.
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Wait Ben are you redefining grace and repentance?
People aren't freed from sin because they don't follow the Holy Spirit and try and do it on their own...not because we need new definitions.
Grace is unmeritted favor shown to us through Christ's death on the cross for our sins....
Grace personified....okay HeRose, apparently there are people who accept that one. My apologies.
People aren't freed from sin because they don't follow the Holy Spirit and try and do it on their own...not because we need new definitions.
Grace is unmeritted favor shown to us through Christ's death on the cross for our sins....
Grace personified....okay HeRose, apparently there are people who accept that one. My apologies.
Then the problem arises that people say without those works you are not saved. This is problematic because there are exceptions to the rule (thief on the cross, death bed confession, isolation, etc). A true Christian will work if given the opportunity, is a fair expression. I agree, though, that good works are something that will determine our rewards at the white throne judgement, or the Bema seat of Christ.
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MacArthur..."Because of our union with Christ, he receives us as righteous in Christ."
I'd see it as because we are counted as righteous through faith on account of Christ, he places us in union with Christ.
...but that may be nit nit nit...No I don't knit!
I'd see it as because we are counted as righteous through faith on account of Christ, he places us in union with Christ.
...but that may be nit nit nit...No I don't knit!
Is our faith from us or a gift of God?
No, people understand repentance to be "a change of mind." I am in agreement with this, what I disagree with is repentance that tries to find any forgiveness outside of Christ's sacrifice for mankind. This is trampling underfoot the Son of God because it does not acknowledge that which Jesus has attained for us through His suffering. That being reconciliation to God and the forgiveness of our sins.
People's idea of repentance usually comes with sin confession for forgiveness, and this idea of penance. Its not only wrong but it actually treats Jesus blood as common, ineffectual to do that which Jesus set out to do.
People's idea of repentance usually comes with sin confession for forgiveness, and this idea of penance. Its not only wrong but it actually treats Jesus blood as common, ineffectual to do that which Jesus set out to do.