Lordahip salvation, nonstrawman version.

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Ariel82

Guest
#41
Then the problem arises that people say without those works you are not saved. This is problematic because there are exceptions to the rule (thief on the cross, death bed confession, isolation, etc). A true Christian will work if given the opportunity, is a fair expression. I agree, though, that good works are something that will determine our rewards at the white throne judgement, or the Bema seat of Christ.
No one can judge righteously another person's salvation, only God can. So I think it's wrong to claim you can say if a person is or isn't saved. Only the Holy Spirit can proclaim such.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#42
No one can judge righteously another person's salvation, only God can. So I think it's wrong to claim you can say if a person is or isn't saved. Only the Holy Spirit can proclaim such.
Possibly, but if you see a man in sincerity proclaim Jesus as Lord and Savior, one ought to lean towards saved as opposed to not. :p
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#43
No, people understand repentance to be "a change of mind." I am in agreement with this, what I disagree with is repentance that tries to find any forgiveness outside of Christ's sacrifice for mankind. This is trampling underfoot the Son of God because it does not acknowledge that which Jesus has attained for us through His suffering. That being reconciliation to God and the forgiveness of our sins.

People's idea of repentance usually comes with sin confession for forgiveness, and this idea of penance. Its not only wrong but it actually treats Jesus blood as common, ineffectual to do that which Jesus set out to do.
Confession and penance for sin?

Is that like a Catholic priest confession and 100 jail Mary's?

If so then I can see your objection.

However if you hurt someone and God convicts you of it. You should make amends by apologising and confessing to them your wrong. If you stole you should restore what you stole, etc.

The sin is still there and can only be washed in the blood of Christ but it can help with the healing.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#44
Confession and penance for sin?

Is that like a Catholic priest confession and 100 jail Mary's?

If so then I can see your objection.

However if you hurt someone and God convicts you of it. You should make amends by apologising and confessing to them your wrong. If you stole you should restore what you stole, etc.

The sin is still there and can only be washed in the blood of Christ but it can help with the healing.
Most definitely, there is a verse that speaks of confessing our sins to one another, but this isn't talking about announcing our sin to the congregation. It is about mending offenses, righting your wrongs for the healing of your relationships. If you wrong someone, confess it and be reconciled to the hurt party.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#45
Possibly, but if you see a man in sincerity proclaim Jesus as Lord and Savior, one ought to lean towards saved as opposed to not. :p
I leaned toward treating everyone as beloved children of God.....some just haven't had their God moment yet and are still dead in their sins.

I know God can make them alive again.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#46
Joseph Prince goes so far as to call grace, Mother Grace.
I've seen him say it one time, in an interview. It is not like its a doctrine he espouses that makes grace "Mother Grace". I think he was just trying to be endearing with the audience in them all having a grace revelation. Poor word choice, sure. A heretic? Hardly.
 
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#47
1JOHN 2:3-4-5-6.
And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His Commandments.

He that says, I know Him, and keeps not His Commandments, is a liar, and the Truth is not in him.

But whoso keeps His Word, in Him verily is The Love of God perfected:
hereby know we that we are in Him.

He that says he abides I Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked.

15.
Love not the world, neither the things in the world. If any man love the world, the LOVE of The Father
is not in him.

1JOHN 2:29.

If you know that He is Righteous, you know that every one that does righteousness
is born of Him.
 
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#48
Joseph Prince goes so far as to call grace, Mother Grace.
This is without a doubt so deceptively done. He used the term "mother" in relation to talking about the 2 covenants in Galatians 4:21-31 allegorically speaking of Hagar and Sarah - mothers that had sons.

"Cast out the bondwoman as the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the free woman." ( verse 30 )

He is talking about the Law being the mother that brought Mt. Sinai and grace being the mother ( allegorically speaking ) Jerusalem ( verse 26 ) that brought Christ.

Notice how deceptively "mother" was capitalized to make it "Mother Grace" to make it "appear" to be something that it isn't. As if "Mother Grace" is now the 4th member of the Trinity.

I apologize to the OP..Ariel for this.

When I see such falsehood being deceptively done to make it "appear" to be something it was not mean to be...I step in. I find this type of behavior and malice especially grievous, ungodly and divisive to the body of Christ.



 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#49
So you are saying our faith places us in union with Him?

Is our faith from us or a gift of God?
We are not united with Him apart from faith.
(sorry, I've been away for awhile)
 
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#50
This is without a doubt so deceptively done. He used the term "mother" in relation to talking about the 2 covenants in Galatians 4:21-31 allegorically speaking of Hagar and Sarah - mothers that had sons.

"Cast out the bondwoman as the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the free woman." ( verse 30 )

He is talking about the Law being the mother that brought Mt. Sinai and grace being the mother ( allegorically speaking ) Jerusalem ( verse 26 ) that brought Christ.

Notice how deceptively "mother" was capitalized to make it "Mother Grace" to make it "appear" to be something that it isn't. As if "Mother Grace" is now the 4th member of the Trinity.

I apologize to the OP..Ariel for this.

When I see such falsehood being deceptively done to make it "appear" to be something it was not mean to be...I step in. I find this type of behavior and malice especially grievous, ungodly and divisive to the body of Christ.



Actually the bond-womans children represents the ones who are still in bondage to sin being yet in the flesh.
The free woman's children are those who are born again from above by the Spirit of promise, being also set free from the bondage of sin and death.

The main jist of the allegory is about the flesh vs. the Spirit, not law vs Grace. :)
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#51
This is without a doubt so deceptively done. He used the term "mother" in relation to talking about the 2 covenants in Galatians 4:21-31 allegorically speaking of Hagar and Sarah - mothers that had sons.

"Cast out the bondwoman as the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the free woman." ( verse 30 )

He is talking about the Law being the mother that brought Mt. Sinai and grace being the mother ( allegorically speaking ) Jerusalem ( verse 26 ) that brought Christ.

Notice how deceptively "mother" was capitalized to make it "Mother Grace" to make it "appear" to be something that it isn't. As if "Mother Grace" is now the 4th member of the Trinity.

I apologize to the OP..Ariel for this.

When I see such falsehood being deceptively done to make it "appear" to be something it was not mean to be...I step in. I find this type of behavior and malice especially grievous, ungodly and divisive to the body of Christ.
Everyone can be their own judge. Mother Grace (@ 2:23 mark). No mention of Hagar or Sarah.

[video=youtube;VcHo-FIp7eE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcHo-FIp7eE[/video]
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#52
Actually the bond-womans children represents the ones who are still in bondage to sin being yet in the flesh.
The free woman's children are those who are born again from above by the Spirit of promise, being also set free from the bondage of sin and death.

The main jist of the allegory is about the flesh vs. the Spirit, not law vs Grace. :)
The law is a flesh covenant and we thank God for the covenant of grace that sets us free to walk in the Lordship of Jesus and His great salvation!

Galatians 4:21-24 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law?

[SUP]22 [/SUP] For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.

 
Sep 4, 2012
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#53
Mother Grace (@ 1:37 mark)

[video=youtube;6HuH_3xua9c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HuH_3xua9c[/video]
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#54
I've seen him say it one time, in an interview. It is not like its a doctrine he espouses that makes grace "Mother Grace". I think he was just trying to be endearing with the audience in them all having a grace revelation. Poor word choice, sure. A heretic? Hardly.
It's part of his Benjamin generation teaching.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#56
Everyone can be their own judge. Mother Grace (@ 2:23 mark). No mention of Hagar or Sarah.

[video=youtube;VcHo-FIp7eE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcHo-FIp7eE[/video]
The context points to what Grace777x70 has explained above. That Joseph Prince clarified saying that "our mother is not law" is revealing; the context of the statement is having to do with the comparison of the law versus grace (covenant). Old testament versus new testament. He isn't making a god out of grace, he is simply using the biblical allegorical comparison. The bondwoman (law) and the free woman (grace).

Thank you Grace777x70 for highlighting the allegory.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#57
The context points to what Grace777x70 has explained above. That Joseph Prince clarified saying that "our mother is not law" is revealing; the context of the statement is having to do with the comparison of the law versus grace (covenant). Old testament versus new testament. He isn't making a god out of grace, he is simply using the biblical allegorical comparison. The bondwoman (law) and the free woman (grace).

Thank you Grace777x70 for highlighting the allegory.
You are welcome. Isn't it of excellent integrity to see what is really being said - instead of mis-representing things?

And in the other video as you go on to listen - he is telling the believers that the grace of Christ will bring us provisions for our life. For what the Lord has for us to do in our generation and he believes this could be the last generation just like many others in the body of Christ.

If anyone lifts us the Lordship of Jesus and salvation as per the OP - and living by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ - it's this man.

The deception to "Capitalize - Mother" to call it "Mother Grace" as if it's a 4th member of the Trinity is appalling and ungodly and is divisive in the body of Christ.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#58
The law is a flesh covenant and we thank God for the covenant of grace that sets us free to walk in the Lordship of Jesus and His great salvation!

Galatians 4:21-24 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law?

[SUP]22 [/SUP] For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwomanand one by the free woman.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.

Paul was asking them why they could not hear what the Spirit was saying in the law? Notice the connection between the words bondwoman to the children of the flesh, and slaves.

What are they slaves to? What are they in bondage to? They are in bondage and slaves to sin because they are still in the flesh, not born again of the Spirit of promise.

Again, you guys are trying to pit the Law of God against the promise of grace. But that just shows how you do not understand. The law of God is not flesh, but spiritual. It is the carnal mind of man that does not hear what the Spirit is saying in the law of Moses because he is yet in the flesh.

Galatians 3:21
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid:


Romans 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Again, the law of Moses cannot set you free from the bondage of sin and death, only the Son can by us being born again and passing from the flesh, sin and death......over to Spirit, righteousness and Eternal Life through Jesus Christ.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#59
Maybe if he passed himself off as a poet, Heavenly Father/Mother Grace would be permissible...but actually teach it? uh... no!

[video=youtube;04RA4G3-H3Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04RA4G3-H3Y[/video]
 
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Nov 22, 2015
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#60
Maybe if he passed himself off as a poet, Heavenly Father/Mother Grace would be permissible...but actually teach it? uh... no!

[video=youtube;04RA4G3-H3Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04RA4G3-H3Y[/video]
He's not teaching that as it has been deceptively said and you know it...Time to get half way honest here...don't you think?