So what about the fourth commandment?

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M

masmpg

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I must quote this whole context of Colossians 2:14-16 here because so many people have no idea what it really means according to God's holy word the KJV bible.
Col:2:14: "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

Now we can break it down. First we read about handwriting of ordinances that was against us and contrary to us. I would like to find another place in scripture where these words are used to define something. Read along in Deuteronomy:31:24: "And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee." Notice that the "law" that Moses wrote in a book was against the people, and it was stored in a separate place along side the ark of the covenant.

I would like to quote what Paul wrote about the law in Romans:7:12: "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." Paul is writing here about two separate laws, one is "holy", but the commandments are holy, just, and good. So if we research what the TEN commandments have been called throughout the bible we will never find a place where they are considered a cures, against us, nor contrary to us. The ceremonial law which caused a lamb to be killed, which was against us, and contrary to us is what Paul is referring to in Colossians 2:14-16. So verse 16 reads thus "let no man therefore judge you in drink offerings, meat offerings, or holy days, new moons or sabbath days. Notice these days are plural. the sabbath days referred to here are the feast days which the Israelites observed until the cross, but oh wait, they still presume to observe them today because they do not believe Jesus was the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world. All the feast days and meat and drink offerings were a shadow of the cross. When you follow the shadow to the substance the shadow is gone. You can read about all the different ceremonial sabbath days in Leviticus 23.
 
Jul 1, 2016
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When God calls something His holy convocations, His appointed times,
why do people feel a need to call it a "ceremonial law"?
 
M

masmpg

Guest
The sabbath commandment is very specific if we just take it as it is written. God instituted the sabbath in the garden of eden but told His children throughout time to "remember" it in Exodus 20:8. He said to remember THE sabbath not A sabbath. Not any day we choose. He stated that THE seventh day is THE sabbath, and we are to keep IT holy.

Lately I have been finding people who are saying that the sabbath day is just for rest not worship. . . They even say that the forth commandment has nothing to do with worship??? Why would God say to keep the sabbath day HOLY if it was just for rest? In fact what did Jesus do every sabbath? He went to the synagogue every sabbath for worship. Isn't Jesus suppose to be our example in all things?

Some of these same people even say that they are NOT Christians but "followers of Jesus"??? Wait a minute isn't a Christian someone from Christ? CHRIST-ian! For anybody to presume to change the name of Christianity after millions have been martyred for that name is mindless at best. To say that the word Christian is not in the bible shows how much of God's holy word the KJV bible they have read. You can find any satanic counterfeit to say anything one wants to hear. Watering down God's holy word the KJV bible through hundreds of different translations is a tool of satan. This is why so many do not understand what the forth commandment really is.
 
Jul 1, 2016
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I like to throw this in once in awhile.

HELP!
I am in bondage to a day of rest!
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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When God calls something His holy convocations, His appointed times,
why do people feel a need to call it a "ceremonial law"?
So they can 'discard it ! they don't want to know about holy convocations or assembling before God in order to learn something from God Himself ! see what they said in Ex 20v19...they did not want to hear God then and they don't want to hear Him now...they would rather hear a man - any man preaching on another day. Well does scripture say that the whole world is deceived !
 

breno785au

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Jul 23, 2013
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So I was travelling up the freeway today and I noticed a car in front of me had a message that took up more than half of their back window, it went something like this: The Sabbath is the seventh day, God has not changed it, a verse from Isaiah, who has deceived you? Get the truth at sabbathtruth.com

...

Interesting I thought.
 
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Our pastor once said, (this is how I remember it) if you think Yeshua came for us to eat pork chops and worship on a Sunday you have a wrong way of looking at the cross.

Cheap grace is telling people they can do what they like and still receive the blessings of God. Grace is to know we are not good enough to ever be perfect but we accept the salvation by the cross and death of Jesus Christ our Saviour.
 

Dan_473

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Mar 11, 2014
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What is there to consider ? Does Moses come up with something better than God ? I am quite satisfied with what GOD says !
very true! I am also satisfied with what God has said through his prophets (like Moses) and apostles (like Paul)!
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
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Just like I said in another thread just seconds ago,...

"
Re: Done Away?


Just because the old law (Old Testament) is physically still here (not the least stroke of a pen) does not mean we are still under its authority. In the Old Testament they did God's law physically (which saved no one, only postponed their sins until the cross). And in the New Testament we do God's law spiritually- which is the real way, the old was only a shadow of the real way to come with Christ.

Jesus did not come to take away God's law, but to fulfill it. However, the physical way of doing it He nailed to the cross. Love (which is not physical but spiritual) fulfills all the laws of the prophets in a spiritual way instead of a physical way. Let me give you an example...

When the Israelites painted the blood of a perfect lamb on the entrances to their homes, and the death angel passed over them, this physical law obeyed will not save them on judgement day. Because only the spiritual blood of the Lamb of God can save ones soul. The blood of a physically perfect lamb only represented the real thing- which is Christ's blood painted on our hearts (spiritually of course).

A representation is not the real thing- like a globe is not the actual earth, and cannot produce life like the real earth with soil, air, and sunshine- which a globe does not have. In the same way, the old law was only a shadow, but the reality is found in Christ. Anyone who wants to go back to the old, and physically paint lambs blood on their doors for example, disrespects Christ Who was tortured and died to nail that way to the cross. And anyone who wishes to obey both laws not only is saying that Christ blood is not good enough, according to Romans 7:1-4 they are commuting spiritual adultery by following both Moses and Christ. Moses just led us to Christ, he is not in competition with Him.

The old law is still in writing so we can learn by comparing the physical things to spiritual things- just like Christ did in His parables, is what God is doing with the old and new testaments. But He says we are to rightly divide the word- what is in the Old Testament stays in the Old Testament. You cannot bring Old Testament laws into the New Testament. The bible says if you follow a law you must follow all of that law. Where are you going to find a 2,000 year old high priest to sacrifice on behalf of your sins?"

The sabbath is no longer physical rest on a physical day, the sabbath that remains for God's people is spiritual. It is the peace that surpasses understanding, a rest that our souls have now knowing that we are going to heaven, and rest that will continue when we are in heaven.​
 
M

masmpg

Guest
Our pastor once said, (this is how I remember it) if you think Yeshua came for us to eat pork chops and worship on a Sunday you have a wrong way of looking at the cross.

Cheap grace is telling people they can do what they like and still receive the blessings of God. Grace is to know we are not good enough to ever be perfect but we accept the salvation by the cross and death of Jesus Christ our Saviour.
Hello GandalfTheWhite, Ah yes cheap grace! The most important verse in the whole bible is Ephesians 2:8 but very few even know what it means, how we get it, where it comes from, and what it does for us. Because this is the most important verse I have spent my whole Christian life studying it, and so should every Christian today. Far too many who profess Jesus Name read verse 8 and leave it at that, many will cite verse 9 to prove their idea of do nothing Christianity, but what about the whole context which includes verse 10. A text without a context is a pretext.

Here is the whole context Ephesians:2:8: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Fist of all what is grace? Many will say unmerited favor, which is a good definition. Jesus took our punishment that we deserve so we can have what He deserves eternal life.

Where do we find grace? I believe that the cross is the most evident display of God's grace and we read in 1Corinthians:1:18: "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." The cross is the power of God that forgives all our sins when we ask Him to and also gives us the power to overcome all temptation when we ask Him to. When we are tempted all we need to do is look to the cross and see Jesus hanging there for that sin we are just about to commit, which put Him there in the first place, and we will have victory, if we actually believe it.

What is grace for. This is the biggie and there is a verse that tells us what we have been given grace for. Most people argue this but this is what the bible states not me. In Romans:1:5: "By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:" We have been given grace FOR OBEDIENCE to the faith. . . This is the hard part. Obedience to the faith goes far beyond obedience to any laws. Jesus raised the dead, healed the sick, walked on water, and so did the disciples because they were obedient to the faith. We can do these things too, why aren't we??? To become obedient to the faith we must first be obedient to God in all things because we are told who will receive the Holy Spirit in Acts:5:32: "And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." ONLY those who obey God will receive the Holy Spirit. For those denominations that state that obedience is not necessary for salvation they need to stop deceiving people into thinking they are speaking in tongues, slain in the Spirit... I have asked many people on forums, while shopping, wherever I go and run into someone who professes to be Christian if obedience is necessary for salvation. The answers I get are quite shocking. It goes to show how few "Christians" actually read and study to show themselves approved unto God through God's holy word the KJV bible.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
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I like to throw this in once in awhile.

HELP!
I am in bondage to a day of rest!
The problem isn't taking a day off (Who would want that?). The problem is dragging Old Testament laws into the New Testament.
 
M

masmpg

Guest
Just like I said in another thread just seconds ago,...

"
Re: Done Away?


Jesus did not come to take away God's law, but to fulfill it. However, the physical way of doing it He nailed to the cross. Love (which is not physical but spiritual) fulfills all the laws of the prophets in a spiritual way instead of a physical way. Let me give you an example...

The sabbath is no longer physical rest on a physical day, the sabbath that remains for God's people is spiritual. It is the peace that surpasses understanding, a rest that our souls have now knowing that we are going to heaven, and rest that will continue when we are in heaven.​

Hello OneFaith, I would like to share a principle which many lose site of when the say that all we have to do is love. If we love God with all our heart mind soul and body it would be impossible to break one of the first four commandments.
If we love our neighbor as ourselves it would be impossible to break one of the last six commandments. Can you kill, rob, commit adultery, covet, lie to, not honor your parents if you really love them? The form of love Jesus was referring to is agape. Agape is unconditional love, something we humans know very little of, but it is still something we must do, and in order for us to display agape love Jesus must dwell in our hearts by faith because the carnal mind is not capable of it.

Jesus said in John:14:15: "If ye love me, keep my commandments." He certainly was referring to love but if what He said here is what you say than this statement is in error. The way you say it goes like this "If you love Me love me" That just does not make any sense. We are told throughout the new testament about the law, grace, and how they work together. If we were to follow just Paul's writings we will have a hard time understanding the gospel, that is what James, Peter and John are for. They all balance out God's holy word the KJV bible.

You mentioned "The sabbath is no longer physical rest on a physical day". I prefer to follow what God's holy word the KJV bible which states in Hebrews:4:4: "For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief." I prefer not to follow after the same example of unbelief like the Israelites of old who did not keep the sabbath, nor did they enter into the promised land. The Israelites created a hedge around the sabbath commandment and made it burdensome instead of praising God for giving them, and us a holy day of rest, which BTW He blessed and sanctified. There is nowhere in the bible that states that God's TEN commandments are not binding today. Please read John 14:26 and pray that the Holy Spirit will "guide you into all truth". If that verse were understood and followed by all who profess to be Christians there would be one denomination and one translation of God's holy word.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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very true! I am also satisfied with what God has said through his prophets (like Moses) and apostles (like Paul)!
so can we assume there will be no more hang gliding (doing your own pleasure) on GOD's holy Sabbath ? (or is Isiah not included in the Prophets ?)
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
83
Hello OneFaith, I would like to share a principle which many lose site of when the say that all we have to do is love. If we love God with all our heart mind soul and body it would be impossible to break one of the first four commandments.
If we love our neighbor as ourselves it would be impossible to break one of the last six commandments. Can you kill, rob, commit adultery, covet, lie to, not honor your parents if you really love them? The form of love Jesus was referring to is agape. Agape is unconditional love, something we humans know very little of, but it is still something we must do, and in order for us to display agape love Jesus must dwell in our hearts by faith because the carnal mind is not capable of it.

Jesus said in John:14:15: "If ye love me, keep my commandments." He certainly was referring to love but if what He said here is what you say than this statement is in error. The way you say it goes like this "If you love Me love me" That just does not make any sense. We are told throughout the new testament about the law, grace, and how they work together. If we were to follow just Paul's writings we will have a hard time understanding the gospel, that is what James, Peter and John are for. They all balance out God's holy word the KJV bible.

You mentioned "The sabbath is no longer physical rest on a physical day". I prefer to follow what God's holy word the KJV bible which states in Hebrews:4:4: "For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief." I prefer not to follow after the same example of unbelief like the Israelites of old who did not keep the sabbath, nor did they enter into the promised land. The Israelites created a hedge around the sabbath commandment and made it burdensome instead of praising God for giving them, and us a holy day of rest, which BTW He blessed and sanctified. There is nowhere in the bible that states that God's TEN commandments are not binding today. Please read John 14:26 and pray that the Holy Spirit will "guide you into all truth". If that verse were understood and followed by all who profess to be Christians there would be one denomination and one translation of God's holy word.
If a widow remarries, is it possible that her new husband will do and say things that her old husband did and said? Might he also say "hello"? Might he also sit down at the dinner table? It may be the same word or action, but it is not the same person. Just because it's not the same person doesn't mean they don't have to also eat and greet.

God's law must be followed- and it is the same law yesterday, today, and tomorrow- whether thousands of years ago, or thousands of years from now, if the Lord wills the earth to last that long. So let's look at "do not murder" for example...

Lets say someone is holding a knife above a sleeping person, about to lunge it into their heart. And I physically take hold of thier hands, and physically make them drop the knife. Physically the law to not murder was obeyed.

Now let's say they are about to lunge the knife, and I tell them not to do it and to put the knife down, and they do. Again, physically the law not to murder was obeyed.

Now let's say the person was tempted to commit murder, but told them self not to do it, remembering that they love the person, and they love God, and conclude that satisfying a short-lived emotion of anger is not worth harming the one you love. That you you protect them from such things, not cause such things. And in the fight of love verses temptation, love wins. Love (which is spiritual) is the most excellent way. Because if you love God and your neighbor, you don't need a list to tell you not to murder them, it comes naturally from the heart.

Now the list, the Ten Commandments (which were only the tip of the iceberg of Old Testament law) was done in a physical way, as were the other laws. But God's same law (the law of the prophets) is fulfilled spiritually by love. They were told not to murder, and we are told not to murder, so what's the difference? The difference is that even though both ways produce the same product, we are under new management- no longer franchised, but our boss is the original owner's Son. His procedures are different than the other guy's. Dare you say to him, "I'm going to follow the old procedures instead of yours because the end product is the same anyways."?

The Ten Commandments are part of the old law, a law that Christ nailed to the cross. So can we murder now that we are no longer under the Ten Commandments? No! Because God's law still remains, we just obey it differently under Christ than we did under Moses. Under Moses if you physically took human life without God's permission you were guilty of murder. Under Christ if you hate your brother you are already guilty of murder- even if you don't physically do it.

Under Christ we still have physical things to do, because we are still in physical bodies- "If your enemy is hungry, feed him." But God's law is no longer written on physical tablets, but on our hearts. The physical things under Moses were a shadow of the real things under Christ. For example, the physical layout of the tabernacle was identical to the spiritual layout of the heavenly realm. You must wash (baptism) to get inside the holy place (church), you must enter the most holy place (heaven) to be with God- which only the high priest could do. But Christ tore away the divide so that those in the holy place could enter the most holy place.

To say we are no longer under Moses or the Old Testament is not to say we stop obeying God, we just now do so in a spiritual way instead of a physical way- which at times looks identical because we still remain in physical bodies, but Christ is our boss- not Moses.
 
M

masmpg

Guest
You contradicted yourself here. First you said that "God's law must be followed- and it is the same law yesterday, today, and tomorrow- whether thousands of years ago, or thousands of years from now, if the Lord wills the earth to last that long." Then you stated "The Ten Commandments are part of the old law, a law that Christ nailed to the cross."

I will say that God's TEN commandments are not part of the law which Moses wrote in a book, the ceremonial law, and placed it separate from the law God wrote with His own finger on stone to show that it is eternal.
I really do not understand what you are trying to say here. Did you know that Adam all the way to the last person to die in Christ will be saved by grace? The only thing the cross did was end the sacrificial services like we read in the book of Hebrews.
You stated "
But God's law is no longer written on physical tablets". Here is a bible verse that hopefully will help you out, found in Revelation:11:19: "And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail." The ark of the testimony is in heaven and still contains the physical TEN commandments written with the finger of God in stone.

Can you support this all from scripture?

I will say that not everyone on earth are living in the spirit, most are carnal and need the TEN commandments to bring then to a knowledge of their sins,and that is the ONLY thing the TEN commandments were given to do. NO law whether written or spiritual can save anybody, all the law does is point out sin.

Here is an example. If we are driving down the road in a 55MPH zone and we are driving 55MPH does that law have any bearing on us? No it does not. But if we are speeding, and breaking that law and receive a ticket we must appear before the judge to receive our punishment, and it is his prerogative to give us grace and dismiss the infraction, or he can throw the book of the law at us. WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT LAW? It is still there to show when we are doing wrong. The idea that states that the law is done away is quite a stretch if you think it through. many go so far as to say that all God's laws are done away with, and I ask them if they are still standing, because the law of gravity was written by Him.

Paul speaks very clearly in Romans 7&8 about the difference between the carnal mind and the Spiritual mind. Believ me those who are carnal need to see what is written in the old testament TEN commandment law.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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ive never seen anyone on this thread say the law saves anyone.... did I miss that someplace???
I too have never seen anyone on this thread say the law saves anyone.

but I did ask on another thread if a Christian male who refuses to be circumcised can be saved. I think the only response I got was "I don't know".




I think it's a very important question because

3 Are you so foolish? Having begun [d]by the Spirit, are you now [e]being perfected by the flesh?

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gal+3&version=nasb
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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not for me. thanks.
although, you can glean some interesting history in these places.
I agree. who needs all that human interpretation?

we can just go by what the Bible says... if hang gliding isn't mentioned, then each person judges for themselves.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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so can we assume there will be no more hang gliding (doing your own pleasure) on GOD's holy Sabbath ? (or is Isiah not included in the Prophets ?)
first, you might be interested in this post I wrote to Mike

(first an aside

the gentleman at 119 ministries has a different take on the "pleasure" verse... my summary of his teaching is that is means "no doing your regular business" on the sabbath

NO PLEASURE ON THE SABBATH

)