So what about the fourth commandment?

[disciplemike]

Interesting thing about how to "keep" the Sabbath.


Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as YHVH thy God hath commanded thee.Deuteronomy 5:12 (KJV, MBM)

The word "Keep" is this in Hebrew:
H8104 (shaw-mar) to guard, protect, hedge about (as with thorns)

So, the Scripture is saying, We are to guard the Sabbath.

Do not let anyone tell you it does not matter, or it is done away with.
Stay on guard!
Stay on guard!

 

[JimmieD]

Interesting thing about how to "keep" the Sabbath.

Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as YHVH thy God hath commanded thee.Deuteronomy 5:12 (KJV, MBM)

The word "Keep" is this in Hebrew:
H8104 (shaw-mar) to guard, protect, hedge about (as with thorns)

So, the Scripture is saying, We are to guard the Sabbath.

Do not let anyone tell you it does not matter, or it is done away with.
Stay on guard!
Stay on guard!

But if you use your power, internet, TV, etc.. on the Sabbath and place said demand for goods and services on other people, then apparently it's ok. So is it good to "keep" the Sabbath up until it interferes with your modern conveniences?

 

[Wall]

Either the person Is under law and on their own or they are under grace and giving GOD all the credit,but a person can't say that they are under law and also under grace both.

I know you don't want to hear that over and over,but Its bible truth.

[FONT=&quot]No its not a bible truth

EPH.2 [8] FOR BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED THROUGH FAITH; [/FONT]

Grace through faith

REV.14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND THE FAITH OF JESUS.

After alls said and done, youll find in the last book of the bible Gods saints keeping His commandments while under grace. Thats a bible truth!

 

[abcdef]

No its not a bible truth

EPH.2 [8] FOR BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED THROUGH FAITH;

Grace through faith

REV.14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND THE FAITH OF JESUS.

After alls said and done, youll find in the last book of the bible Gods saints keeping His commandments while under grace. Thats a bible truth!

Will you make your spiritual life be be governed by the material world?

Are you closer to Jesus when the sun goes down or when it rises?

If you were in space, orbiting the earth, the sun would rise and fall many times in one day,

How would you keep the Sabbath then?

What if you were a slave on a Roman ship and you didn't know what day it was,

And you had to slave every day,

How could you not work against the Sabbath?

You will make so many laws that it is impossible NOT to sin. (Ro 8:2)
====

Keep the Sabbath holy

Is any day, or time of day, to be any holier than any other?

Isn't every moment holy in our lives toward God?

Shall we set aside one day to be especially sinless or are all days and nights to be sinless.

Does God (love) change or is He always the same regardless of where the earth is spinning in the solar system?

Does the Holy Spirit (God) within us change on the Sabbath or on Monday or Friday?

Just asking.

 

[Wall]

Will you make your spiritual life be be governed by the material world?

Are you closer to Jesus when the sun goes down or when it rises?

If you were in space, orbiting the earth, the sun would rise and fall many times in one day,

How would you keep the Sabbath then?

What if you were a slave on a Roman ship and you didn't know what day it was,

And you had to slave every day,

How could you not work against the Sabbath?

You will make so many laws that it is impossible NOT to sin. (Ro 8:2)
====

Keep the Sabbath holy

Is any day, or time of day, to be any holier than any other?

Isn't every moment holy in our lives toward God?

Shall we set aside one day to be especially sinless or are all days and nights to be sinless.

Does God (love) change or is He always the same regardless of where the earth is spinning in the solar system?

Does the Holy Spirit (God) within us change on the Sabbath or on Monday or Friday?

Just asking.

Are we to obey God or simply ignore Him?

Just askin

 

[KohenMatt]

Will you make your spiritual life be be governed by the material world?

Are you closer to Jesus when the sun goes down or when it rises?

Closer? No. But it's not a matter of how close I feel to God on that day. It's a matter of Him setting that aside as holy. I recognize it as such.

If you were in space, orbiting the earth, the sun would rise and fall many times in one day,

How would you keep the Sabbath then?

Clocks.

What if you were a slave on a Roman ship and you didn't know what day it was,

The sun.

And you had to slave every day,

How could you not work against the Sabbath?

If you're a slave, you have no choice. Do you think God would be pleased by this?
BTW, the priests worked twice as hard on the Sabbath as the other 6 days of the week.

You will make so many laws that it is impossible NOT to sin. (Ro 8:2)

What laws about the Sabbath matter most? God's, or man's?

Keep the Sabbath holy

Is any day, or time of day, to be any holier than any other?

What did God say about that?

Isn't every moment holy in our lives toward God?

Absolutely. But God setting aside the Sabbath as holy apart from all other days is still a fact.

Shall we set aside one day to be especially sinless or are all days and nights to be sinless.

Sinning less was never the point of the Sabbath, or mentioned as such.

Does God (love) change or is He always the same regardless of where the earth is spinning in the solar system?

Does God change His ways at all? No. He set the solar system up the way it is, and based His Sabbath off it.

Does the Holy Spirit (God) within us change on the Sabbath or on Monday or Friday?

Just asking.

Nope. And God never addressed this. That isn't a part of the instructions He gave about the Sabbath.

Man has made A LOT of rules and regulations about the Sabbath. The instructions God gave for the Sabbath are very basic. Questions like the ones you have asked here reveal a legalistic attitude regarding the Sabbath that God never intended.

 

[KohenMatt]

But if you use your power, internet, TV, etc.. on the Sabbath and place said demand for goods and services on other people, then apparently it's ok. So is it good to "keep" the Sabbath up until it interferes with your modern conveniences?

What were the instructions God gave for the Sabbath? What specific Scriptures address the Sabbath and the instructions for it?

 

[JimmieD]

What were the instructions God gave for the Sabbath? What specific Scriptures address the Sabbath and the instructions for it?

If you have a point to make, just make it.

 

[Vigil]

I am hesitant to admit this... But I have a problem with the western modern institution of the Church. Maybe its cause I'm a bit anti-social and self conscious by nature, or I don't like how it has to be structured the same way all times, or maybe the fact that I prefer to be interactive in a discussion and not be "talked too". I'm not saying I can't listen people, I understand there are people far more wiser and more experienced than me, and you need "leaders" in a church so people are all on the same page. But the whole experience of the "institution" of what Church has become seems more like a...Show to me. I'm not saying such churches aren't holy, nor am I disparaging those that attend Church, clearly they are simply following this commandant. I just am generally uncomfortable in the setting.

I am struggling with this, cause I know what most Christians would typically say. Most are in two camps "Get over it, you have to go." or "Where two or more are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them." I obviously subscribe to the second notion, but still feel "guilty at times. When I go I always feel like I'm not "worthy" or at the same place as other people in the church. I feel I'm not ready yet, cause I still have a lot of issues to sort out, and I don't want to "slip up" and do something wrong at church. (I'm a work in progress.) I know this is not necessarily true, its just a very hard thing to deal with for me.

I will say this, the first Christians (Who imo must have been far more devout than most of us in contemporary times.) Did not have bibles, they were outlawed from gathering and were forced to gather in secret. In their homes, in the catacombs, in the desolate places of the wilderness. They broke bread together, and worshipped, and discussed, and learned. It was not a giant room of people who had to sit down in rows and rise and sit to a consistent "system" of a service. It was more like "bible-study" which I actually do enjoy.

I know people will have strong opinions on this, and I pray to Jesus to make me more devout, and show me if I am in error in thinking this way.

 

[KohenMatt]

If you have a point to make, just make it.

If anyone is going to have a discussion about what observing the Sabbath looks like, the verses giving instruction about observing the Sabbath should be given.

 

[Vigil]

If anyone is going to have a discussion about what observing the Sabbath looks like, the verses giving instruction about observing the Sabbath should be given.

I think the sabbath should look like how the earliest Christians observed it.

 

[KohenMatt]

I think the sabbath should look like how the earliest Christians observed it.

While that is very helpful information, the starting point of a discussion about observing the Sabbath needs to be God's instructions about it.

 

[Vigil]

While that is very helpful information, the starting point of a discussion about observing the Sabbath needs to be God's instructions about it.

I would think the first Christians observed Gods instructions much better than we do now. Tbh I have seen very few specifics on what the sabbath should "look like" but a lot of what it should NOT look like. If you can find biblical NT instructions other than "woman should not speak in church, and should wear hats." I would be interested in seeing it.

 

[Ariel82]

I prefer Bible studies and small groups to traditional services. Mainly because I don't like to be preached at either, but I have been to a few services where the preacher has members of the congregation pray together and praise God as a group. The sermon is only a small part of service.

The Sabbath was made for man, not men for the Sabbath. God wants us to set time out of our lives to be with Him without worry for the future or striving to do work.

Whether a person takes 3.5 hours out of every day or 24 hours a week all at once on the seventh day, it's a personal choice between them and God.

Discussion of the Sabbath makes me think of the difference between resting and working,

Some people make Sabbath observance into a work or chore they do. Its not meant to be.

Sabbath means rest. Sometimes we get so busy doing things for others, we are like Martha, when God wants us to be like Mary.

I watch my children run and play, go to school and learn, do their chores, create masterpieces of artwork to show me. They get so busy doing, but eventually they get tired and need to snug and rest.

So for me the Sabbath is any time of rest God gives me to just be still and know He is God.

It doesn't have to be the seventh day of the week, because sometimes we are called to do God's work on the Jewish Sabbath.

The first mention of observing the Sabbath as a commandment was with Moses and the gathering of manna. The Israelites didn't trust God, lusted after the idols that left behind. They didn't listen to God's commandments to only gather what is needed for the day. So worms grew in the manna. However the day before the Sabbath they could gather twice as much and no worms.

Anyway, Vigil the Sabbath should be about rest. How early church meetings should look like Is another subject....they should be orderly not Hollywood productions, focused on fellowship not gluttony, praising God...gtg

 

[KohenMatt]

I would think the first Christians observed Gods instructions much better than we do now. Tbh I have seen very few specifics on what the sabbath should "look like" but a lot of what it should NOT look like. If you can find biblical NT instructions other than "woman should not speak in church, and should wear hats." I would be interested in seeing it.

I think it's helpful to go even further back in the Word to see what God said about the Sabbath from the beginning. Then we can progress to the NT to see how it was observed then, and then how it progressed (or regressed) into more modern Christianity.

 

[KohenMatt]

It doesn't have to be the seventh day of the week, because sometimes we are called to do God's work on the Jewish Sabbath.

Many good things in your post, but this comment brings up an excellent point.

The Levites were called to do twice the amount of work on the Sabbath as they usually did with double sacrifices. Yes, Israel was called to rest on the Sabbath, but the Levites served God and served the people even more on the Sabbath. If we believe we are a kingdom of priests, and if we believed we have the High Priest in us, then we should expect to serve God even more on the Sabbath.

When I go into church on Saturday morning, I'm there to serve, not be served. And this is the same standard Jesus set up as well.

 

[garee]

Interesting thing about how to "keep" the Sabbath.


Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as YHVH thy God hath commanded thee.Deuteronomy 5:12 (KJV, MBM)

The word "Keep" is this in Hebrew:
H8104 (shaw-mar) to guard, protect, hedge about (as with thorns)

So, the Scripture is saying, We are to guard the Sabbath.

Do not let anyone tell you it does not matter, or it is done away with.
Stay on guard!
Stay on guard!

On guard touche..LOL

Who is saying we are not to keep them by staying on guard? Seeing the work has been done from the foundation of the world. The Sabbath is simply used in parables as shadows .it is not something we could judge one another in respect to. It is easy to see by looking at the two different rendering of the fourth commandment , both renditions together is a picture of salvation.

Once in respect to creation when the lamb of God did the work and the use of the exit of the exodus to represent the same work and same rest . Two different reasons. Why the difference if not one witnesses to the other?


Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, “and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm”: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Exo 20:11 “For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day” : wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Ceremonial laws cannot give us rest... they point to the rest (Christ) as shadows.

Scripture informs us the work has been finished from the foundation of the world . When do you think it was finished? Are you mixing faith (the unseen) when looking at it? Or are you trusting shadows are the substance that does quicken our souls??

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.(no faith) For we which have believed (have faith) do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works “were finished” from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the “seventh day” from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.Heb 4:1

 

[ukok102nak]

Interesting thing about how to "keep" the Sabbath.


Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as YHVH thy God hath commanded thee.Deuteronomy 5:12 (KJV, MBM)

The word "Keep" is this in Hebrew:
H8104 (shaw-mar) to guard, protect, hedge about (as with thorns)

So, the Scripture is saying, We are to guard the Sabbath.

Do not let anyone tell you it does not matter, or it is done away with.
Stay on guard!
Stay on guard!

:haha: try to understand this as a servant
who understand the scriptures
and not with the understanding that comes from earthly wisdom
as it is written
:read:
Daniel: 11. 21. And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
22. And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
23. And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
32. And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

33. And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34. Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35. And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

:ty:

godbless us all always

 

[Wall]

FWIW > Noahide laws in Acts 15 from The Jewish Encyclopedia

So you believe these "Noahide" laws found in Acts 15 are to be kept by the church

ACTS 15 [17] That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. [18] Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. [19] Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among THE GENTILES are turned to God: [20] But that we write unto them, that THEY ABSTAIN FROM POLLUTIONS OF IDOLS, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. [21] For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

ACTS 15 as a whole was speaking as to whether gentiles needed to be circumcized or not.

ACTS 15 [4] And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. [5] But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That IT WAS NEEDFUL TO CIRCUMCISE THEM, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

ACTS 15 [24] Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, YE MUST BE CIRCUMCISED, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Nothing to do with the 10 commandments. So lets look into what pollution of idols {V 20} is all about. Its there we find that we are to be keeping Gods sabbath day.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

LEVITICUS 19 [3] Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and KEEP MY SABBATHS: I am the Lord your God. [4] TURN YE NOT UNTO IDOLS, NOR MAKE TO YOURSELVES MOLTEN GODS: I am the Lord your God.

LEVITICUS 26 [1]Ye shall MAKE YOU NO IDOLS NOR GRAVEN IMAGE, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God. [2] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.

EZEKIEL 20 [16]Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, BUT POLLUTED MY SABBATHS: FOR THEIR HEART WENT AFTER THEIR IDOLS.

I don’t know what the connection might be as to why graven images and idols are a sign that you don’t keep Gods sabbath but if the WORD says so I believe it. We could have a debate on what an idol is but that would go nowhere but in circles. Does your church have any standing images? I know the churches that do keep the sabbath don’t have any standing images or crosses.

 

[Vigil]

I think it's helpful to go even further back in the Word to see what God said about the Sabbath from the beginning. Then we can progress to the NT to see how it was observed then, and then how it progressed (or regressed) into more modern Christianity.

Well while I certainly think the OT has many many merits, and should not be discarded, we know much of the "law" was "replaced" with "grace". Leviticus, and I think numbers possibly are some books that provide insight into the early sabbath. However we both know what the Sabbath had become by the time of Jesus. We know the Sabbath basically means to "rest" and we know we use that rest to worship and give glory to God.

Jesus said "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath."

so is there really any "specific" way to observe the Sabbath? Other than following the basic principals we observe as Christians and applying them to a gathering? It seems like when Jesus said "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." he gave us a lot of leeway on how to observe it, because of how societies, and cultures vary. It makes sense because there has to be multiple ways to observe as needed by the situation. When Christians were persecuted we could hardly afford to gather en-mass in the open like we do now.