Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God
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I would say I agree with most of it.
I do not believe that scripture supports, that "we equally conquer sin."
Nor do I believe that scripture supports that "we are working for our salvation."
I believe that scripture teaches the complete and finished work of salvation on the cross won for us by Jesus and that finished work is imputed to us as born again believers and we are made completely righteous in Him, our salvation is secure in Him and He is able to complete the good work that He has begun in us.
Philippians 1:6
I appreciate your clarification, I think I better understand your beliefs.
I do not believe that scripture supports, that "we equally conquer sin."
Nor do I believe that scripture supports that "we are working for our salvation."
I believe that scripture teaches the complete and finished work of salvation on the cross won for us by Jesus and that finished work is imputed to us as born again believers and we are made completely righteous in Him, our salvation is secure in Him and He is able to complete the good work that He has begun in us.
Philippians 1:6
I appreciate your clarification, I think I better understand your beliefs.
Well what I am saying is this...
If I live with an awareness of I must avoid sin, where is my focus?
If I live with an awareness of chasing love, where is my focus?
Why is this important to me? Because Jesus said if our eye is light our whole body is, but if dark our whole body is, I believe He is connecting the important of focus. I once wrote a post on all the places that Scripture highlights where we place our focus. And how we are to set our minds on Christ.
But a lot of people have their mind set on sin because they believe it helps them be righteous and holy. Maybe to a certain degree it might, but for me I've found I become what I focus on. And I focus on Him and I don't desire sin. And anywhere I do, I need to see Him in a new way.
It's really 2 lenses.
As an interesting aside if you do a word study on righteousness, there is a lot of connections with generosity. Which still links us to loving one another.
Through Christ and the cross the whole point is to set us free from the slavery to sin.
If this is not the result in our lives, then we are still due for judgement and condemnation.
I have never said I am working for salvation. I walk in my salvation.
Emotionally it is like saying I have fallen in love with my wife, got married and am working
so we can share our lives together. The work is because of the love and commitment, it
is not to prove the love and commitment. Because we are together and love is flowing
why would I not live like this, but if I did not live like this how could I claim I love or even
have a live relationship.
If this is not the result in our lives, then we are still due for judgement and condemnation.
I have never said I am working for salvation. I walk in my salvation.
Emotionally it is like saying I have fallen in love with my wife, got married and am working
so we can share our lives together. The work is because of the love and commitment, it
is not to prove the love and commitment. Because we are together and love is flowing
why would I not live like this, but if I did not live like this how could I claim I love or even
have a live relationship.
I believe I understand where Peter is coming from.
If I'm correct he is focusing on that our faith will show works. Which I agree with.
I do think Christians can still stumble because we have a lot of letters written by Paul saying you are stumbling! But I think the transformation that God does which is writing His laws on our heart and mind creates a desire in us for Him and His ways.
What I have found to be the case, is that even when people are saved, if they don't understand who He is and what His great promises are for their life, they still struggle with sin because of self protection, trust issues, emotional issues, and a lot of lies about what is good in their minds. I believe this takes us into the full weight of Scripture that stresses renewing our minds to prove the Will of God. And that truth will set us free.
I personally do not look at people as not desiring the will of God - if they are truly saved.
Once they are saved, they do desire the things of God, now they need to know more about who they are joined with and have their mind renewed to His goodness and kindness. Which will only amplify their desire to do the things He desires.
I think this is also a connection of grace. We see and know things about Him because of His grace. And if others had that same grace I believe they would as well. I don't hold pride in my knowledge of Him, I thankfully look to Him and thank Him for His grace. I believe this grace He has given us is a responsibility and invitation to be able to share it with others as well.
A lot of people come to me with problems they see in the church, invariably my question is so what are you going to do about what God has given you eyes to see?
If I'm correct he is focusing on that our faith will show works. Which I agree with.
I do think Christians can still stumble because we have a lot of letters written by Paul saying you are stumbling! But I think the transformation that God does which is writing His laws on our heart and mind creates a desire in us for Him and His ways.
What I have found to be the case, is that even when people are saved, if they don't understand who He is and what His great promises are for their life, they still struggle with sin because of self protection, trust issues, emotional issues, and a lot of lies about what is good in their minds. I believe this takes us into the full weight of Scripture that stresses renewing our minds to prove the Will of God. And that truth will set us free.
I personally do not look at people as not desiring the will of God - if they are truly saved.
Once they are saved, they do desire the things of God, now they need to know more about who they are joined with and have their mind renewed to His goodness and kindness. Which will only amplify their desire to do the things He desires.
I think this is also a connection of grace. We see and know things about Him because of His grace. And if others had that same grace I believe they would as well. I don't hold pride in my knowledge of Him, I thankfully look to Him and thank Him for His grace. I believe this grace He has given us is a responsibility and invitation to be able to share it with others as well.
A lot of people come to me with problems they see in the church, invariably my question is so what are you going to do about what God has given you eyes to see?
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I agree with you. The focus on sin, or failure, or perceived failure is missing the point. It is
like saying you make a successful company by studying how you fail, rather than studying
what you are actually selling and how to do it better.
The mistake though is to ignore sin or not realise it destroys everything around us, and
can be kept in check. There is a known psychological state similar to OCD where the
patient always self condemns and is never satisfied. A lot of the language I have read
and the background of legalism by some people indicates some theology has nothing to
do with the Lord, rather lack of self acceptance.
And you focus on love for me is where my heart is. So much of sin and life failure is
because people do not feel accepted loved and cared for at a very basic life level.
If you see testimonies of abused people, it is their number one problem, discounting
their lack of worth, even in their own eyes.
So some of your view or approach is not shared that widely. This is why theology
often fails to encompass nuances that can turn a position into something brilliant,
from something that can be very destructive. It is also why I try and not be too
judgemental, but want to work through the issues, because it is through the journey
we arrive, we are not born in the right location.
like saying you make a successful company by studying how you fail, rather than studying
what you are actually selling and how to do it better.
The mistake though is to ignore sin or not realise it destroys everything around us, and
can be kept in check. There is a known psychological state similar to OCD where the
patient always self condemns and is never satisfied. A lot of the language I have read
and the background of legalism by some people indicates some theology has nothing to
do with the Lord, rather lack of self acceptance.
And you focus on love for me is where my heart is. So much of sin and life failure is
because people do not feel accepted loved and cared for at a very basic life level.
If you see testimonies of abused people, it is their number one problem, discounting
their lack of worth, even in their own eyes.
So some of your view or approach is not shared that widely. This is why theology
often fails to encompass nuances that can turn a position into something brilliant,
from something that can be very destructive. It is also why I try and not be too
judgemental, but want to work through the issues, because it is through the journey
we arrive, we are not born in the right location.
Yes exactly! We look at Christ as the "successful company" as you have stated. He is our perfect example. And He gave His life for those He loved. And He actually commands us to do the same.
I have also found lack of self-acceptance to be a huge issue in my own life. I actually think this stems a lot from perfection mindsets and orphanism, which is basically trying to "earn" something. Because we have not accepted we are loved, we are working to get love rather than receiving it. Jesus was given because God did love the world not so He could love the world.
I agree with you also that sin should not be ignored. I think it is a great way for us to discern where lies exist and also where people's minds need to be renewed to the Lord's goodness and kindness. I actually believe that when we understand how good He is and how destructive sin is, we won't want it. The problem is that deception is deceiving. It's very nature is to deceive. It is the moment we realize we are deceived that we are no longer under deception. And thus we can turn toward the truth and be freed.
You're right also that religion is worthless if it doesn't include loving and caring for others. I believe this is actually the core of theology and the true measure if we "understand" something. Do we actually live it? Because if we don't live it, we need to learn not teach. And I think this is a good reminder for myself in some areas as well.
I have also found lack of self-acceptance to be a huge issue in my own life. I actually think this stems a lot from perfection mindsets and orphanism, which is basically trying to "earn" something. Because we have not accepted we are loved, we are working to get love rather than receiving it. Jesus was given because God did love the world not so He could love the world.
I agree with you also that sin should not be ignored. I think it is a great way for us to discern where lies exist and also where people's minds need to be renewed to the Lord's goodness and kindness. I actually believe that when we understand how good He is and how destructive sin is, we won't want it. The problem is that deception is deceiving. It's very nature is to deceive. It is the moment we realize we are deceived that we are no longer under deception. And thus we can turn toward the truth and be freed.
You're right also that religion is worthless if it doesn't include loving and caring for others. I believe this is actually the core of theology and the true measure if we "understand" something. Do we actually live it? Because if we don't live it, we need to learn not teach. And I think this is a good reminder for myself in some areas as well.
It seems like you can either serve money or God, love one or the other and your eye can be evil in that way
For example,
Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Here is the context of the same
Mar 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.
Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Here is where the single and evil eye is
Prov 28:22 He that hasteth to be rich hath an evil eye, and considereth not that poverty shall come upon him.
Light and darkness as it relates to our brethren also
1 John 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
Same shown here similarly of the evil eye, in the sense of selfishness,
Duet 15:9 Beware that there be not a thought in thy wicked heart,
saying, The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand; and thine eye be evil against thy poor brother,
and thou givest him nought; and he cry unto the LORD against thee,
and it be sin unto thee.
The question of the love of God dwelling in such a one here
1 John 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good,
and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
1 John 3:18 My little children,
let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
Which you can see the same principal play out in them which were covetous here
Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other;
or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Luke 16: 14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
They esteemed abomination
Luke 16:15 And he said unto them Ye are they which justify yourselves before men;
but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
These guys deriding Jesus on this thing, and justifying themselves as well, would seem to indicate the same sort of perverse disputings found here as well
1 Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds,
and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
Prov 28:22 Hethat hasteth to be rich hath an evil eye, and considereth not that poverty shall come upon him.
Prove 23:6 Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye,
neither desire thou his dainty meats:
Mark 7:21-23 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries,
fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
The lense seems more about having a love of money, or love of the world or the things of the world verses a love of God in respects to that eye, and the Pahrisees loved money (not God)
For example,
Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Here is the context of the same
Mar 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.
Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Here is where the single and evil eye is
Prov 28:22 He that hasteth to be rich hath an evil eye, and considereth not that poverty shall come upon him.
Light and darkness as it relates to our brethren also
1 John 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
Same shown here similarly of the evil eye, in the sense of selfishness,
Duet 15:9 Beware that there be not a thought in thy wicked heart,
saying, The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand; and thine eye be evil against thy poor brother,
and thou givest him nought; and he cry unto the LORD against thee,
and it be sin unto thee.
The question of the love of God dwelling in such a one here
1 John 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good,
and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
1 John 3:18 My little children,
let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
Which you can see the same principal play out in them which were covetous here
Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other;
or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Luke 16: 14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
They esteemed abomination
Luke 16:15 And he said unto them Ye are they which justify yourselves before men;
but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
These guys deriding Jesus on this thing, and justifying themselves as well, would seem to indicate the same sort of perverse disputings found here as well
1 Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds,
and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
Prov 28:22 Hethat hasteth to be rich hath an evil eye, and considereth not that poverty shall come upon him.
Prove 23:6 Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye,
neither desire thou his dainty meats:
Mark 7:21-23 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries,
fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
The lense seems more about having a love of money, or love of the world or the things of the world verses a love of God in respects to that eye, and the Pahrisees loved money (not God)
You may look at parts of an explanation below, all of the explanation may be looked at by using the link below.
"16:10-13. He that is faithful in little, is faithful also in much; and he that is unjust in little, is unjust also in much. If therefore you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will give you the true? And if you have not been faithful in that which is another's, who will give you, that which is your own? No servant can serve two lords: for either he will hate the one, and love the other: or he will honour the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
THE most distinguished and experienced teachers, when they wish to fix any important doctrine deep in the minds of their disciples, omit no kind of reasoning able to throw light upon the chief object of their thoughts; at one time weaving arguments together, at another employing apposite examples, and so gathering from every quarter whatever is serviceable for their use. And this we find Christ also, Who is the Giver unto us of all wisdom, doing in many places. For oftentimes He repeats the very same arguments upon the subject, whatever it may be, that the mind of those who hear may be led on to an exact understanding of His words. For look again, I pray, at the purport of the lessons set before us: for so you will find our words to be true. "He that is faithful in little," He says, "is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in little, is unjust also in much."
But in what way men may become faithful, the Saviour Himself next taught us: and I will explain how. A certain Pharisee besought Him to eat bread with him on the sabbath day, and Christ consented: and having gone there, He sat down to meat: and there were many others also feasting with them. And none of them by any means resembled men who possessed nothing, but, on the contrary, they were all persons of distinction, and great haughtiness, and lovers of the foremost seats, and thirsting after vainglory, being clothed as it were in the pride of wealth. What then said Christ to His inviter? "When you make a dinner or a supper, call not your friends, nor your brethren, neither your kinsmen, nor your rich neighbours, lest they also invite you again, and a re-compense be made you. But when you make a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, and the blind. And you shall be blessed, because they cannot recompense you; for you shall be recompensed at the resurrection of the just." This then I think is a man's being faithful in little, that he have pity upon those who are in need, and distribute assistance from his means to such as are in extreme distress. But we, despising a way thus glorious and sure of reward, choose one dishonourable and without reward, by treating with contempt those who are in utter poverty, and refusing even sometimes to admit their words into our ears; while, on the other hand, we luxuriously provide a costly table, either for friends who live in pomp, or for those whose habit it is to praise and flatter, making our bounty an occasion for indulging our love of praise. But this was not God's purpose in permitting us to possess wealth. If therefore we are unfaithful in the little, by |514 not conforming ourselves to the will of God, and bestow the best portion of ourselves upon our pleasures and our boasts, how can we receive from Him that which is true? And what is this? The abundant bestowal of those divine gifts which adorn man's soul, and form in it a godlike beauty. This is the spiritual wealth, not that fattens the flesh, which is held by death, but rather that saves the soul, and makes it worthy of emulation, and honourable before God, and that wins for it true praises.
It is our duty therefore to be faithful unto God, pure in heart, merciful and kind, just and holy: for these things imprint in us the outlines of the divine likeness, and perfect us as heirs of eternal life. And this then is that which is true.
When therefore any are unfaithful in that which is another's, in those things namely, which are added unto them from without, how shall they receive that which is their own? How, that is, shall they be made partakers of the good things which God |515 gives, which adorn the soul of man, and imprint upon it a divine beauty, spiritually formed in it by righteousness and holiness, and those upright deeds which are done in the fear of God.
And that it is a thing impossible for one and the same person to divide himself between contraries, and still be able to live blamelessly, He shows by saying, "No man can serve two lords: for either he will hate the one, and love the other, or he will honour the one, and despise the other." And this indeed is a plain and evident example, and very suitable for the elucidation of the subject before us. For that which follows is, so to speak, the conclusion of the whole argument: "for you cannot serve God and mammon." For if, He says, a man be a slave of two masters, of diverse and contrary wills, and whose minds are irreconcilable with one another, how can he please them both? For being divided in endeavouring to do that which each one approves, he is in opposition to the will of both: and so the same person must inevitably appear bad and good. If therefore, He says, he determine to be true to the one, he will hate the other, and set him of course at nought. It is not therefore possible to serve God and mammon. For the unrighteous mammon, by which wealth is signified, is a thing given up to voluptuousness, and liable to every reproach, engendering boasting, and the love of pleasure, making men stiff-necked, the friends of the wicked, and contemptuous: yes, what base vice does it not produce in them that possess it?
But the goodwill of God renders men gentle, and quiet, and lowly in their thoughts; long-suffering, and merciful, and of exemplary patience, not loving lucre, nor desirous of wealth, content with food only and raiment, and especially fleeing from "the love of money, which is the root of all evils:" joyfully |516 undertaking toils for piety's sake; fleeing from the love of pleasure, and earnestly shunning all feeling of wearisomeness in good works, while constantly they value, as that which wins them reward, the endeavour to live uprightly, and the practice of all soberness. This is that which is our own, and the true. This God will bestow on those who love poverty, and know how to distribute to those who are in need that which is another's, and comes from without, even their wealth, which also has the name of mammon."
Cyril of Alexandria, Commentary on Luke.
Cyril of Alexandria, Commentary on Luke (1859) Sermons 99-109. (Luke 13:22-16:13) pp. 460-516.
"16:10-13. He that is faithful in little, is faithful also in much; and he that is unjust in little, is unjust also in much. If therefore you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will give you the true? And if you have not been faithful in that which is another's, who will give you, that which is your own? No servant can serve two lords: for either he will hate the one, and love the other: or he will honour the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
THE most distinguished and experienced teachers, when they wish to fix any important doctrine deep in the minds of their disciples, omit no kind of reasoning able to throw light upon the chief object of their thoughts; at one time weaving arguments together, at another employing apposite examples, and so gathering from every quarter whatever is serviceable for their use. And this we find Christ also, Who is the Giver unto us of all wisdom, doing in many places. For oftentimes He repeats the very same arguments upon the subject, whatever it may be, that the mind of those who hear may be led on to an exact understanding of His words. For look again, I pray, at the purport of the lessons set before us: for so you will find our words to be true. "He that is faithful in little," He says, "is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in little, is unjust also in much."
But in what way men may become faithful, the Saviour Himself next taught us: and I will explain how. A certain Pharisee besought Him to eat bread with him on the sabbath day, and Christ consented: and having gone there, He sat down to meat: and there were many others also feasting with them. And none of them by any means resembled men who possessed nothing, but, on the contrary, they were all persons of distinction, and great haughtiness, and lovers of the foremost seats, and thirsting after vainglory, being clothed as it were in the pride of wealth. What then said Christ to His inviter? "When you make a dinner or a supper, call not your friends, nor your brethren, neither your kinsmen, nor your rich neighbours, lest they also invite you again, and a re-compense be made you. But when you make a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, and the blind. And you shall be blessed, because they cannot recompense you; for you shall be recompensed at the resurrection of the just." This then I think is a man's being faithful in little, that he have pity upon those who are in need, and distribute assistance from his means to such as are in extreme distress. But we, despising a way thus glorious and sure of reward, choose one dishonourable and without reward, by treating with contempt those who are in utter poverty, and refusing even sometimes to admit their words into our ears; while, on the other hand, we luxuriously provide a costly table, either for friends who live in pomp, or for those whose habit it is to praise and flatter, making our bounty an occasion for indulging our love of praise. But this was not God's purpose in permitting us to possess wealth. If therefore we are unfaithful in the little, by |514 not conforming ourselves to the will of God, and bestow the best portion of ourselves upon our pleasures and our boasts, how can we receive from Him that which is true? And what is this? The abundant bestowal of those divine gifts which adorn man's soul, and form in it a godlike beauty. This is the spiritual wealth, not that fattens the flesh, which is held by death, but rather that saves the soul, and makes it worthy of emulation, and honourable before God, and that wins for it true praises.
It is our duty therefore to be faithful unto God, pure in heart, merciful and kind, just and holy: for these things imprint in us the outlines of the divine likeness, and perfect us as heirs of eternal life. And this then is that which is true.
When therefore any are unfaithful in that which is another's, in those things namely, which are added unto them from without, how shall they receive that which is their own? How, that is, shall they be made partakers of the good things which God |515 gives, which adorn the soul of man, and imprint upon it a divine beauty, spiritually formed in it by righteousness and holiness, and those upright deeds which are done in the fear of God.
And that it is a thing impossible for one and the same person to divide himself between contraries, and still be able to live blamelessly, He shows by saying, "No man can serve two lords: for either he will hate the one, and love the other, or he will honour the one, and despise the other." And this indeed is a plain and evident example, and very suitable for the elucidation of the subject before us. For that which follows is, so to speak, the conclusion of the whole argument: "for you cannot serve God and mammon." For if, He says, a man be a slave of two masters, of diverse and contrary wills, and whose minds are irreconcilable with one another, how can he please them both? For being divided in endeavouring to do that which each one approves, he is in opposition to the will of both: and so the same person must inevitably appear bad and good. If therefore, He says, he determine to be true to the one, he will hate the other, and set him of course at nought. It is not therefore possible to serve God and mammon. For the unrighteous mammon, by which wealth is signified, is a thing given up to voluptuousness, and liable to every reproach, engendering boasting, and the love of pleasure, making men stiff-necked, the friends of the wicked, and contemptuous: yes, what base vice does it not produce in them that possess it?
But the goodwill of God renders men gentle, and quiet, and lowly in their thoughts; long-suffering, and merciful, and of exemplary patience, not loving lucre, nor desirous of wealth, content with food only and raiment, and especially fleeing from "the love of money, which is the root of all evils:" joyfully |516 undertaking toils for piety's sake; fleeing from the love of pleasure, and earnestly shunning all feeling of wearisomeness in good works, while constantly they value, as that which wins them reward, the endeavour to live uprightly, and the practice of all soberness. This is that which is our own, and the true. This God will bestow on those who love poverty, and know how to distribute to those who are in need that which is another's, and comes from without, even their wealth, which also has the name of mammon."
Cyril of Alexandria, Commentary on Luke.
Cyril of Alexandria, Commentary on Luke (1859) Sermons 99-109. (Luke 13:22-16:13) pp. 460-516.
The HG's are still arguing a useless argument if they're right..... not to mention wasting valuable time. I suggest you rethink your stance on HG, & go back to saved by grace thru consistent, active faith. The best way to prove it is to study everything you can on faith, especially James & Romans. Grace alone won't cut it..... The just shall live by FAITH.
The principle is that we can only serve one master. Scripture is loaded with examples of where we put our focus.
Matt 16:23 But Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me. For you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."
This context had nothing to do with money, but everything to do with Peter's focus vs Jesus'.
I could post probably 10-15 more examples if I wanted to, but I agree with what you're saying, we want to be lead by God not by the desire for money. Being lead by anything, but God is incorrect.
Remember how Satan challenged Jesus? If you be the Son of God do this... This is an example of Jesus trying to be lead by fear/lies instead of God's declaration (this is My Son)...
Jesus laid down a principle and then He applied it to money, but when you understand the principle of focus, you'll see it through out Scripture.
This idea goes back to the ideas behind repentance and renewing of the mind, the action is a turning away from, but also a turning toward. A lot of people understand the turning away from part, but the turning toward part is a little bit less taught, which is why I am stressing it.
People believe knowing the lies and sins will set them free.
But Jesus said it is know the truth that sets people free.
Jesus said repent for the Kingdom is at hand, basically saying the Kingdom is in front of you.
And further being lost has a lot to do with focus as well.
2 Co 4:4 among them the god of this world [Satan] has blinded the minds of the unbelieving to prevent them from seeing the illuminating light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
This theme is all through out Scripture, remember Paul says open the eyes of their heart? Remember Scripture that says the just shall live by faith? And then Hebrews 11 ties faith to seeing unseen things?
I am showing you different examples so the pattern is a little clearer.
Yes this applies to money as well, but it's not only money.
It's the Lordship of Christ.
Matt 16:23 But Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me. For you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."
This context had nothing to do with money, but everything to do with Peter's focus vs Jesus'.
I could post probably 10-15 more examples if I wanted to, but I agree with what you're saying, we want to be lead by God not by the desire for money. Being lead by anything, but God is incorrect.
Remember how Satan challenged Jesus? If you be the Son of God do this... This is an example of Jesus trying to be lead by fear/lies instead of God's declaration (this is My Son)...
Jesus laid down a principle and then He applied it to money, but when you understand the principle of focus, you'll see it through out Scripture.
This idea goes back to the ideas behind repentance and renewing of the mind, the action is a turning away from, but also a turning toward. A lot of people understand the turning away from part, but the turning toward part is a little bit less taught, which is why I am stressing it.
People believe knowing the lies and sins will set them free.
But Jesus said it is know the truth that sets people free.
Jesus said repent for the Kingdom is at hand, basically saying the Kingdom is in front of you.
And further being lost has a lot to do with focus as well.
2 Co 4:4 among them the god of this world [Satan] has blinded the minds of the unbelieving to prevent them from seeing the illuminating light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
This theme is all through out Scripture, remember Paul says open the eyes of their heart? Remember Scripture that says the just shall live by faith? And then Hebrews 11 ties faith to seeing unseen things?
I am showing you different examples so the pattern is a little clearer.
Yes this applies to money as well, but it's not only money.
It's the Lordship of Christ.
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I don't think its useless.
If you don't believe you are fully saved, how do you believe you are empowered?
You say by the Spirit? But the mere act of the Spirit joining with you, shows that you have been made Holy and Righteous.
You say you have been reborn? But how do you become unreborn?
It is reasoning like this that stops people from fully participating in the promises of God that bring us into participation with His nature.
This teaching has people thinking they have two natures, but the reality is the old nature was crucified. What is being renewed is their understanding of what God has done. That's why it says it proves the Will of God.
Do you know what the Will of God is according to Scripture?
The idea that this is about salvation shows how far from the Authors' intent this idea can take us.
You think you can perfect yourself by the flesh? By your obedience? Your obedience is only because God's love and mercy for you. He alone will get the glory on that one.
Are you saved? Yes. Why? Because Jesus died for me. For good? Well if I continue to follow Jesus, this idea takes us away from JOINING and BEING FOUND IN HIM.
A better question would be, why do you love Him? Because He loved me first. Why do you do good? Because of His grace and mercy. What about the others? They need Jesus.
Which one of those reflects Paul's heart more?
C.
If you don't believe you are fully saved, how do you believe you are empowered?
You say by the Spirit? But the mere act of the Spirit joining with you, shows that you have been made Holy and Righteous.
You say you have been reborn? But how do you become unreborn?
It is reasoning like this that stops people from fully participating in the promises of God that bring us into participation with His nature.
This teaching has people thinking they have two natures, but the reality is the old nature was crucified. What is being renewed is their understanding of what God has done. That's why it says it proves the Will of God.
Do you know what the Will of God is according to Scripture?
The idea that this is about salvation shows how far from the Authors' intent this idea can take us.
You think you can perfect yourself by the flesh? By your obedience? Your obedience is only because God's love and mercy for you. He alone will get the glory on that one.
Are you saved? Yes. Why? Because Jesus died for me. For good? Well if I continue to follow Jesus, this idea takes us away from JOINING and BEING FOUND IN HIM.
A better question would be, why do you love Him? Because He loved me first. Why do you do good? Because of His grace and mercy. What about the others? They need Jesus.
Which one of those reflects Paul's heart more?
C.
The HG's are still arguing a useless argument if they're right..... not to mention wasting valuable time. I suggest you rethink your stance on HG, & go back to saved by grace thru consistent, active faith. The best way to prove it is to study everything you can on faith, especially James & Romans. Grace alone won't cut it..... The just shall live by FAITH.
The idea that you would even not follow God after what He has done for you is almost preposterous to Paul.
Why do you think Paul says all things are permissible, but not profitable?
Why does Paul lay the case of why would we continue in sin? After being dead to it?
These are not ideas, these are realities to Paul.
That's the correct heart behind Scripture. Those who have been forgiven much love much.
But this idea of almost forgiven is actually limiting peoples acceptance of His love and ultimately the expression of His love through them. You want to know why the Church struggles to be His hands and feet? This is a big reason right here.
They don't believe they are accepted, so they can't teach the world they are.
They themselves barely understand God so they use fear to control themselves and others.
They don't understand what it means to truly TURN TO God.
They don't understand the ministry of reconciliation, so they are not ministers fully themselves.
This is definitely NOT a waste of time.
If this grace can touch the hearts of those who are so versed in Christ, then this grace can be released through them into their closest relationships and their families!
Have you SEEN the statistics on what the lifestyle of Christians looks like? And people think oh we just need more fear! We need to teach more discipline! NO. You need to apprehend and teach GRACE.
Why do you think Paul in every letter prays that would receive more GRACE?
And then you say things like HYPER-GRACE is wrong. Lol.
If only you knew, how wrong you were.
People who understand grace in its proper context actually sin less! Actually love more! But people have a problem with it! Why I want to know? Because it allows people to freely choose to love God? Saying they don't have to follow their religious ways, but that they actually can live out of His promises, that somehow it's wrong. Saying they can actually have a relationship with God and live with His Will on EARTH as it is in Heaven is somehow mixing Scripture?
Most proponents of these ideas are still waiting for God to move. Not realizing what He did on the cross. And then when people try to share their liberty they attack them and think it's for Christ.
This is definitely NOT a waste of time.
C.
Why do you think Paul says all things are permissible, but not profitable?
Why does Paul lay the case of why would we continue in sin? After being dead to it?
These are not ideas, these are realities to Paul.
That's the correct heart behind Scripture. Those who have been forgiven much love much.
But this idea of almost forgiven is actually limiting peoples acceptance of His love and ultimately the expression of His love through them. You want to know why the Church struggles to be His hands and feet? This is a big reason right here.
They don't believe they are accepted, so they can't teach the world they are.
They themselves barely understand God so they use fear to control themselves and others.
They don't understand what it means to truly TURN TO God.
They don't understand the ministry of reconciliation, so they are not ministers fully themselves.
This is definitely NOT a waste of time.
If this grace can touch the hearts of those who are so versed in Christ, then this grace can be released through them into their closest relationships and their families!
Have you SEEN the statistics on what the lifestyle of Christians looks like? And people think oh we just need more fear! We need to teach more discipline! NO. You need to apprehend and teach GRACE.
Why do you think Paul in every letter prays that would receive more GRACE?
And then you say things like HYPER-GRACE is wrong. Lol.
If only you knew, how wrong you were.
People who understand grace in its proper context actually sin less! Actually love more! But people have a problem with it! Why I want to know? Because it allows people to freely choose to love God? Saying they don't have to follow their religious ways, but that they actually can live out of His promises, that somehow it's wrong. Saying they can actually have a relationship with God and live with His Will on EARTH as it is in Heaven is somehow mixing Scripture?
Most proponents of these ideas are still waiting for God to move. Not realizing what He did on the cross. And then when people try to share their liberty they attack them and think it's for Christ.
This is definitely NOT a waste of time.
C.