When Paul wrote a letter to young Timothy...

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Jul 1, 2016
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#1
When he wrote this, the New Testament was not even written yet. (your thoughts?)
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
 

HS

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2016
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#2
Where did you get the information that the letter to Timothy was written before the new testament? I just googled it and it was written quite late but that is only one source.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#3
When he wrote this, the New Testament was not even written yet. (your thoughts?)
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
All Scripture = Old Testament + New Testament.
In the time, when some NT letter was missing yet, All Scripture refers to what was already written and to what will be written in its time.
 
Jul 1, 2016
2,639
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#4
Where did you get the information that the letter to Timothy was written before the new testament? I just googled it and it was written quite late but that is only one source.
The new testament was not written, even later when it was written, there were only handwritten copies. No one in the first century had a new testament. Also, if you will notice from the previous verse, he tells Timothy, that from a child you have known the sacred writings.
 
Jul 1, 2016
2,639
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#5
All Scripture = Old Testament + New Testament.
In the time, when some NT letter was missing yet, All Scripture refers to what was already written and to what will be written in its time.
no, that was not the context of his letter. The sacred writings refers to the Tanach. No one had a new testament in the first century.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#6
no, that was not the context of his letter. The sacred writings refers to the Tanach. No one had a new testament in the first century.
No one had OT or NT in the first century. Whole OT was maybe in temple. Certainly not in the houses of normal people.
All Scripture in this context refers to "what you have access to", from OT or NT, mostly from reading in church or oral traditions.
 
T

TonyJay

Guest
#7
Why don't we just cut to the chase: surely by now you should be insisting that all male Christians should be circumcised.
 
Jul 1, 2016
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#8
Why don't we just cut to the chase: surely by now you should be insisting that all male Christians should be circumcised.
well of course they should be circumcised of the heart, just like it says in the Old Testament and New Testament.
 
Jul 1, 2016
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#9
No one had OT or NT in the first century. Whole OT was maybe in temple. Certainly not in the houses of normal people.
All Scripture in this context refers to "what you have access to", from OT or NT, mostly from reading in church or oral traditions.
The "sacred writings" that Timothy knew when he was a child was not the NT. You can twist it any way you want, but that don't make it so, neighbor.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#10
The "sacred writings" that Timothy knew when he was a child was not the NT. You can twist it any way you want, but that don't make it so, neighbor.
Actually, you are twisting whatever you can. NT is clear that OT is Scripture and NT is Scripture. Do not try to propagate your wrong jewish views upon Christians in every thread.

Timoteus knew OT writings (probably not all of them) when he was a child and he knew NT writings (yes, not all of them) when he was adult. Simple enough.
 
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Jul 1, 2016
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#14
Actually, you are twisting whatever you can. NT is clear that OT is Scripture and NT is Scripture. Do not try to propagate your wrong jewish views upon Christians in every thread.

Timoteus knew OT writings (probably not all of them) when he was a child and he knew NT writings (yes, not all of them) when he was adult. Simple enough.
this is what happens when you listen to preachers who try to build up congregations. The truth is twisted. Believe what you will.
 

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
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#15
Well, since Paul would be writing most of the NT anyway, he may have just told young timmy all about it.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#17
The "sacred writings" that Timothy knew when he was a child was not the NT. You can twist it any way you want, but that don't make it so, neighbor.
I don't know the answer but I wanted to say that paul said that timothy had known the holy scriptures from a child,so then wasn't scripture written on parchment back then?

2 timothy 3:14-15

King James Version(KJV)

14.)But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15.)And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
 
B

bikerchaz

Guest
#18
When he wrote this, the New Testament was not even written yet. (your thoughts?)
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
I agree with you, when the church first started there were no pocket bibles, no 'new testament and psalms' no KGV or NIV or anything else, Just Jesus in the Holy Spirit within. Not everyone did receive the Holy Spirit though, like Simon in Acts 8. And even though some did they still had control of who they were and what they did as Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5.

But whether the people did or not it was their belief and faithfulness in their baptism that guaranteed their salvation. A lot of what went on at the first seems alien to us now, I wonder why? When I look around at the church (small c intended) as it is, I can't help but think it would be alien to those who first believed. A paid hierarchy, pew sitters who let others do everything and have control, even if they do allow a few 'lay preachers' to pacify those with a lot to say.

Even the spoken rhetoric within the church (small c again) makes the church something we go to instead of 'being'. Sitting there and may be shaking hands with those you can reach from your seat as a fellowship greeting, then not seeing anyone again for a week or so. Unless you are close family with anyone and with the exception of a mid week discussion group.

Fellowship is being together, but it is more than that, it is living and loving together, and it also works both ways round. Knowing someone is in trouble or struggling with a problem and not offering to help or not helping without throwing charity in their face is one thing. If it is us that is having trouble we must also ask for help both physical and spiritual, confessing and praying for each other.

The first time Church was instituted it grew beyond anything imaginable. Everyone held everything in common, Wow what a statement. I would love to know how it worked out in reality, may be there was a big chest with coin and as a bill came the coin went, as a wage came in so did the coin. A special birthday celebration and more coin went out, a bonus at work and more coin went in.

If this were the case I can hear the excuses now for not doing anything like this, but this is pure conjecture because we might have the 'Acts' written down now but we don't have any ledgers LOL. But to consider this way of living within the communities we live in today, it would be such a huge witness.

Ananias and His wife were part of that way of life. The members of that first living Church were all in, this did not mean that everything they as individuals owned had to be put in to the pot. their money was their money and it was not a sin to have what was theirs. The sin came when they said they had given everything and had not, they lied to the Spirit, the Church, the living body of Christ whose members we are. If they had said nothing except "we want to give this" and left it at that there would have been no problem.

The problem, any problem within us being Church, comes from us as humans not being able to let go. We have to control, we have to take charge of our lives, it is a huge step to completely let go and let God. This is where satan comes into the mix, what if I let go and nothing happens? May be it is for me to do something? Then we listen and tell ourselves we have to do good to show others who God is and then the roller-coaster rumbles on and on and on and on. This is trying to do good works to earn salvation.***

Now today we have the bible, a collection of books that God has had a hand in putting together, because nothing that important would be left to us completely out of His influence, and yes it is important, but it is not all we have. It is only a guide a stick to measure with, a measuring tape we can put the Spirit up to to make sure we are hearing true, and yes we can do without it if we have to, the early Church did. The only Torah anyone had access to was in a synagogue, no one had a private copy at home unless you were immensely wealthy.

Jesus said He would teach us. Jesus will lead us. If we listen with our hearts we can make out His voice from among the crowd, this is not a strange concept. in a field full of sheep a ewe can distinguish her lambs bleating, in a colony of nesting birds like penguins each can hear their own offspring. So it is with us, we can hear His voice above the clamouring multitude of misdirection and He leads His flock, He will lead us to good pasture and give us the choicest of food. Himself.

(*** I will not and am not going to get into any grace argument over this statement. God has works for us to do and He brings them to us we do not have to go looking for them. The love shown to us through the death of Jesus instigates it's own way in each of us to show our love back to Jesus who died on the cross 2000 years ago)
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#19
When he wrote this, the New Testament was not even written yet. (your thoughts?)
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
Has been discussed here many times, yet it remains viable. He (as was Jesus and the other Apostles) was referring to the Scriptures of the First Testament. Does not in any way make the Four Gospels, Book of Acts, the Epistles, or Revelation any less Scripture or Holy Spirit inspired, for God is the Author of ALL SCRIPTURE.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,097
6,480
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#20
this is what happens when you listen to preachers who try to build up congregations. The truth is twisted. Believe what you will.
Not really. It was common practice for the Epistles to be passed around congregation to congregation, city to city and read/shared with all, so they knew what the Apostles were writing.

Still, the references made are referring to the Scriptures from the First Testament, for the Epistles had not yet been declared to be Scripture. Although they were the instructions given by the Apostles through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, to the Church, so, in that context, they were Scripture.

(One day, I'm thinking you will finally reveal your true motivation with all these comments/suggestions you are posting)