Why do Catholics break the Commandment about Idols?

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Dec 10, 2015
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#1
Exodus 20:3-5
[SUP]3 [/SUP]“You shall have no other gods before Me.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]“You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]You shall not worship them or serve them.

Statues and Pictures of Mary are Idols because Catholics do pray to them.

So how can they Justify their Praying to Mary which God has said we are not to do?
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
6,877
1,949
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#2
Because they get taught those heresies from childhood on to the point that theyre simply brainwashed..at least most catholics not all.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
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#3
Exodus 20:3-5
[SUP]3 [/SUP]“You shall have no other gods before Me.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]“You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]You shall not worship them or serve them.

Statues and Pictures of Mary are Idols because Catholics do pray to them.

So how can they Justify their Praying to Mary which God has said we are not to do?
"Why, when in Bible..." is a protestant style of thinking.

Catholics do not think in this way, they trust church and priests. They are their authorities. They are taught that they cannot understand Bible and need the church to explain it to them.
 
M

MadParrotWoman

Guest
#4
"Why, when in Bible..." is a protestant style of thinking.

Catholics do not think in this way, they trust church and priests. They are their authorities. They are taught that they cannot understand Bible and need the church to explain it to them.
I agree, it's doctrine and ritual over God's word. It has been passed down the centuries through families and has grown in such a way that whole countries - especially parts of Europe and South America practice it. It has become the norm so much so that it isn't often questioned in those parts.
 
Feb 26, 2015
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#5
Because people in the Catholic Church are brain washed into accepting that Salvation is ONLY received from the Catholic Church. Therefore to go against the teachings of the Church could have major consequences on their receiving Salvation and entering into Heaven.
 

HQ

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2014
196
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#6
A big part of the problem is that Catholics didn't actually start reading the bible until very recently. For the longest time the priest and the "Missal" were their only sources of information for most Catholics. Things have changed though and many parishes are actually having bible studies. Will be interesting to see if some seeds start sprouting as a result. It was a bible study at work that opened my eyes to the Word many moons ago.
 
Jul 1, 2016
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#7
One thing we can notice, the two longest commandments, in giving the most detail, are the 2nd and the 4th. It seems like God knew which ones "believers" would try to disobey the most. And it isn't just catholics.
 
Feb 9, 2010
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#8
Exodus 20:3-5
[SUP]3 [/SUP]“You shall have no other gods before Me.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]“You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]You shall not worship them or serve them.

Statues and Pictures of Mary are Idols because Catholics do pray to them.

So how can they Justify their Praying to Mary which God has said we are not to do?
Also they break many others in the give honor,glory,to people,category,when all honor,glory,goes to God.

Like calling the Pope Holy Father,and head of the Church,3 strikes right there that Jesus addressed all 3 to where the Pope is out of line for claiming such things.Jesus said call no man father in a spiritual capacity,and the man Christ Jesus said,why call Me good,there is only one good,and that is God,and Christ is the head of the Church.

Calling Mary the mother of God,and the Queen of heaven,when Jesus pointed to His disciples and said,whoever does the will of God,the same is My mother,brother,and sister,and a woman said,blessed is the woman that gave birth to Jesus,but Jesus said,yea rather,blessed are those that hear the word of God,and does it.

They seem to like to exalt certain saints too,and call certain individuals priest,when Jesus made all the saints kings,and priests,unto God the Father.

Joseph Smith had a belief not in the Bible,dragged it in to the Bible,ta da,the Mormon Church,Alice Bailey dragged the occult,and nature worship,and witchcraft,in to the Bible,and ta da,you have the new age movement,but others have contributed like Madam Blavatsky,but it appears as if Alice elevated it quite a lot.

L. Ron Hubbard dragged his belief in to the Bible,and ta da,you have Scientology.

And so on,which the Roman Catholic Church did the same thing,dragged their religious ways,before the Bible,in to the Bible,and ta da,you have the Roman Catholic Church.

The ways that are not of the Bible,that they drag in to the Bible,kind of becomes their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures.

A lot of people will interpret the Bible according to their view of reality.

If they are an occultist,that is how they will see it.

If they are prejudice,that is how they will see it,like the throne of David moved to England,giving them the God given right to rule,and the royal family descendants of David,and the ten lost tribes of Israel,being European,and the mark Cain received was black skin.

Like African Americans are the true Jews,along with others.

And so forth of people that have a belief,that is not part of the Bible,and interpret the Bible according to that belief.

Which the true Jews,and Jews,for God said He would bring again the captivity of Jacob,and bring the whole house of Israel back to their land,after the Roman Empire scattered them in to the nations,and when Israel became a nation,I do not see Europeans,African Americans,Latinos,Native Americans,and Mexicans,going back to Israel,but the people that are going back there are the true Jews,which is none of those other people,because God said He is going to bring the whole house of Israel back to their land,and none of those groups are going there.
 
Jul 14, 2016
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#9
Hi everyone. Is all prayer worship? That's an important question; If all prayer is worship, your accusations have grounds. If not, then it is only right to find out why.
Catholics don't worship Mary; They don't bow down to idols. I know it may appear that way; Just as it appears to a muslim that a christian worships three gods merely because they lack understanding about the Trinity. In their ignorance because they do not grasp the doctrine of The Trinity and because of what their imam may say, they conclude with an ignorant and incorrect belief that christians idolize a man while worshiping three gods. You very well know christians don't worship three gods, but one God; You very well know christians worship God in the flesh, the man Jesus Christ.

It's only fair and right to hear what a catholic appologist has to say on these matters. You wouldn't want someone from another religion---A muslim for example---to give come to an ignorant conclusion about Christianity just because their imam told them something, would you? Wouldn't you want to be given a chance to explain your beliefs instead of them coming to their own conclusions without at least consulting about what you believe?
 
Last edited:
Jul 8, 2016
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#10
A Catholic response: God's blessings

Some Protestants accuse the Catholic Church of having dropped one of the 10 Commandments. "You're idolators! You worship statues! And because you do, your Church dropped the commandment against graven images!"

The truth, of course, is that the Catholic Church did not and could not change the Ten Commandments. Latin Catholics and Protestants simply list them differently. It is incredible that such a pernicious lie could be so easily spread and believed, especially since the truth could easily be determined by just looking into the matter. But the rumor lives.

Now, below are the ways in which Protestants and Roman Catholics enumerate the Commandments:

[FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif] Most common Protestant listing: [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt have no other gods before me
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy
Honour thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour
Thou shalt not covet
[/FONT]​
[FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Latin Catholic listing: [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt not have other gods besides Me
Thou shalt not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vain
Remember to keep holy the Lord’s day
Honor thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not murder
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods
[/FONT]​
[FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]So what the heck? What did happen to the commandment about graven images in the Catholic listing? Did the Church just "drop" a commandment?

Um, no. The Old Testament was around long before the time of the Apostles, and the Decalogue, which is found in three different places in the Bible (Exodus 20 and Exodous 34 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21), has not been changed by the Catholic Church. Chapter and verse divisions are a medieval invention, however, and numbering systems of the Ten Words (Commandments), the manner in which they are grouped, and the "short-hand" used for them, vary among various religious groups. Exodus 20 is the version most often referred to when one speaks of the Ten Commandments, so it will be our reference point here. Here's how the relevant portion of Exodus 20 reads:
[/FONT]
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]2 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]3 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]4 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]5 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]6 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]7 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]8 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]9 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: [/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]10 [/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]11 [/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]12 [/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]13 [/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt not kill. [SUP]1[/SUP] [/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]14 [/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt not commit adultery. [/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]15 [/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt not steal. [/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]16 [/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. [/FONT][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]17 [/FONT][/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]So we have 16 verses and Ten Commandments (this we know because of Exodus 34:28 and Deuteronomy 4:13 which speak of the "Ten Words" of God). How to group these verses and Commands? Here's how different groups have handled this: [/FONT]
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #eee9e9, colspan: 3"][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif] Verses Grouped Together[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 10%, bgcolor: #eee9e9"][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Counted as Commandment # [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 30%, bgcolor: #f5f5f5"][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Jewish [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 30%, bgcolor: #f5f5f5"][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Latin Catholic, Lutheran [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 30%, bgcolor: #f5f5f5"][FONT=verdana, sans-serif]Eastern Catholic, Orthodox, Most Protestant[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]1[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]2 (commandment to believe)[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]3, 4, 5, 6[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]3[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]2[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]3, 4, 5, 6[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]7[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]4, 5, 6[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]3[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]7[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]8, 9, 10, 11[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]7[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]4[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]8, 9, 10, 11[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]12[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]8, 9, 10, 11[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]5[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]12[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]13 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]12[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]6[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]13 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]14[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]13 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]7[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]14[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]15 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]14[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]8[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]15 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]16[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]15[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]9[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]16[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]17a (commandment against lust) [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]16[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]10[/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]17 [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]17b (commandment against greed) [/FONT]
[/TD]
[TD][FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]17[/FONT]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]When the Commandments are listed, they are often listed in short-hand form, such that, for ex., verses 8, 9, 10 and 11 concerning the Sabbath become simply "Remember the Sabbath and to keep it holy." Because Latin Catholics group 3, 4, 5 and 6 together as all pertaining to the concept "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me," we are accused of having "dropped" the commandment against idols. That Eastern Catholics list the Commandments differently never enters the equation for people who think this way; they are simply against those they probably call the "Romish popers" and that's that (I hope it doesn't bother them that Jews would accuse them of totally forgetting the First Commandment, or that Latin Catholics could accuse some Protestants of skipping lightly over the commandments against lust. And why don't the Protestants who have a problem with our numbering system go after the Lutherans for the same thing, anyway?).

Bottom line:
[/FONT]

  • [FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]chapter and verse numbering in the Bible came about in the Middle Ages[/FONT]

  • [FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]the Catholic Church (which includes Eastern Catholics, too) has two different numbering systems for the Commandments given, one agreeing with the most common Protestant enumeration; [/FONT]

  • [FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]the Latin Church's numbering is the most common in the Catholic Church and is the one referred to by Protestants who, ignoring Eastern Catholic Churches, accuse the Catholic Church of having dropped a Commandment;[/FONT]

  • [FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif] no Commandment has been dropped, in any case, but the Latin Church's shorthand for the Commandments looks different than the typical Protestant version because of how the Commandments are grouped; [/FONT]

  • [FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]everyone knows how to find Exodus 20 in the Bible, anyway -- even us stoopid Latin Catholics; and [/FONT]

  • [FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]we don't care how they are grouped together; we only care that they are understood and obeyed -- not because we are under the Old Testament Moral and Ceremonial Law with its legalism and non-salvific ritual (we aren't!), but because we are to obey God as children of the New Covenant, whose moral law includes the Two Great Commandments (to love God and to love our neighbor) which surpass the Decalogue, and whose Sacraments surpass empty ritual, being media of grace.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif]Footnote:
[SUP]1[/SUP] The Septuagint, the Latin Vulgate (the official Scripture of the Church), and the original Douay-Reims phrase the Fifth Word as "Thou shalt not murder"; later Douay-Reims versions, such as the Challoner, and the King James Bible, etc., phrase it as "Thou shalt not kill." "Thou shalt not murder," however, is the original intent and the meaning of the earliest texts. Catholics, of course, have 2,000 years of Church teaching and the Magisterium to interpret Scripture, and the meaning of the Fifth Commandment is that one is not to take innocent life. It doesn't entail pacifism, ignoring the needs of self-defense and justice, worrying about squashing bugs, etc.
[/FONT]
 
Jul 14, 2016
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#11
Hey guys, are we allowed to post links to catholic websites in here that give an appologetic defence of any of their doctrines? Just checking. I'm new and don't want to break any rules.
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#12
Really an idol can be anything you give your time, heart, love, desire to and for.. A lot of people have idols.. Why does anyone? Bc man has the propensity to lean towards deception.
 
Feb 26, 2015
737
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#13
One of the Commandments DeaconMike is we are not to bow down to Statues and Pictures. We do have pictures of Pope John Paul II bowing down to a statue of Mary, praying to the Statue.

Pope John Paul II saw no problems with Worshiping Mary as his Savior and God.

He will spend Eternity in the Lake of Fire, not with God.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#14
even the days are named after objects would wearing a cross be a form of idolism to much complexity surely some would say no not those things just the statues and stuff, are headstones written as needed I mean there's all kinds of things that could be labeled.
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
155
63
#15
Hi everyone. Is all prayer worship? That's an important question; If all prayer is worship, your accusations have grounds. If not, then it is only right to find out why.
Catholics don't worship Mary; They don't bow down to idols. I know it may appear that way; Just as it appears to a muslim that a christian worships three gods merely because they lack understanding about the Trinity. In their ignorance because they do not grasp the doctrine of The Trinity and because of what their imam may say, they conclude with an ignorant and incorrect belief that christians idolize a man while worshiping three gods. You very well know christians don't worship three gods, but one God; You very well know christians worship God in the flesh, the man Jesus Christ.

It's only fair and right to hear what a catholic appologist has to say on these matters. You wouldn't want someone from another religion---A muslim for example---to give come to an ignorant conclusion about Christianity just because their imam told them something, would you? Wouldn't you want to be given a chance to explain your beliefs instead of them coming to their own conclusions without at least consulting about what you believe?

Don't assume that believers are ignorant on this. Some on this site used to be Catholic, so they're very familiar with the teachings and requirements of the catholic church, those things which they abandoned when their eyes were opened to the truth.

A catholic apologist would be one of those described as a blind man leading the blind. If he does not have the truth then he will twist the scriptures to support catholicism, because he doesn't have the eyes to see. The bible can be twisted multiple ways, but there is only one truth, and it's the Holy Spirit that interprets.

Matthew 15:14: "Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch"


It needs to be said in this thread though that catholics are blindly following the blind. They are held in bondage to this catholic system, and cannot see how they're being deceived.

Catholicism teaches that Mary was sinless like Jesus. They put her as equal to Jesus and claim she is the mother of God! The reality is, she was born a sinner like everyone else (for ALL have sinned and fallen short). She was chosen as a vessel to birth Jesus (His humanity) but she did not give birth to God. She is not equal to God. It's satan that likes to think he's equal to God. This is where the similarities can be seen because it's him that wants to be like the most High. God is God and did not need a sinless person to give birth to a sinless Jesus. It's just silly.

Unfortunately they show adoration for Mary, she is the focus of that system... the woman. (Isn't it interesting that satan chose a woman to represent his main religious system, considering it was a woman that sinned first in the garden). They're showing adoration for a sinful woman, yet they claim she was sinless like Jesus. This is why they show her adoration and believe that she is a mediator. She is a main focal point of Catholicism.

My mother-in-law would say she doesn't worship Mary, but yet she lights a candle to Mary everyday and also says her hail Marys. She also has statues and paintings of Mary in her house.

At the end of the day, we're to worship God in spirit and in truth. John 4:24: God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

If a person is not born of the spirit then they're in the world and scriptures say they are a child of satan.

1 John 3:10: In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

John 8:44-47: "You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”
 
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#16
Hello Katy,

You said "The bible can be twisted multiple ways, but there is only one truth, and it's the Holy Spirit that interprets."

Right, so which of the protestant denominations holds the one truth? Which one has the correct authority? Which one interprets the bible correctly? Which of the 5,000+ christian sects is the correct one? Is it Anglicanism, which itself is divided over the issue of homosexuality? Is it Lutherism or Calvinism, which interprets the bible differently concerning The Real Presence? Pentecostalism or Baptist? Anglican or Non-Denominational?

If you're going to cite ex-catholics as a source rather than a catholic appologist, how is that any different than a Jehovah's Witness citing an ex-protestant Jehovah's Witness from doing the same thing?
 
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#17
"She[Mary] did not give birth to God."

Don't you believe that Jesus is God in the flesh? You believe that Jesus was "begotten, not made" don't you?

I recommend reading up on church history.
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
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#18
"She[Mary] did not give birth to God."

Don't you believe that Jesus is God in the flesh? You believe that Jesus was "begotten, not made" don't you?

I recommend reading up on church history.
I'm off to bed now, so will reply to your other post tomorrow.

You took a small piece of what I said. Yes, Jesus is God in the flesh.

God existed before Mary.... Mary did not give birth to God or that would make her God. That should be obvious. She was a vessel used to give birth to Jesus (His flesh). Mary was the mother of Jesus.
 
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#19
I'm off to bed now, so will reply to your other post tomorrow.

You took a small piece of what I said. Yes, Jesus is God in the flesh.

God existed before Mary.... Mary did not give birth to God or that would make her God. That should be obvious. She was a vessel used to give birth to Jesus (His flesh). Mary was the mother of Jesus.
Hello Katy,

Here is the Catholic position on the matter. I hope this helps.

"Although Mary is the Mother of God, she is not his mother in the sense that she is older than God or the source of her Son’s divinity, for she is neither. Rather, we say that she is the Mother of God in the sense that she carried in her womb a divine person—Jesus Christ, God "in the flesh" (2 John 7, cf. John 1:14)—and in the sense that she contributed the genetic matter to the human form God took in Jesus Christ."

The title "Mother Of God" was a response to a heresy called Nestorianism, which taught that Jesus's divine and human nature were separate from one another. It has nothing to do with making Mary God, elevating her to deity, and everything about being the vessel used to give birth to Jesus. God bless.
 

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
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#20
Also they break many others in the give honor,glory,to people,category,when all honor,glory,goes to God.

Like calling the Pope Holy Father,and head of the Church,3 strikes right there that Jesus addressed all 3 to where the Pope is out of line for claiming such things.Jesus said call no man father in a spiritual capacity,and the man Christ Jesus said,why call Me good,there is only one good,and that is God,and Christ is the head of the Church.

Calling Mary the mother of God,and the Queen of heaven,when Jesus pointed to His disciples and said,whoever does the will of God,the same is My mother,brother,and sister,and a woman said,blessed is the woman that gave birth to Jesus,but Jesus said,yea rather,blessed are those that hear the word of God,and does it.

They seem to like to exalt certain saints too,and call certain individuals priest,when Jesus made all the saints kings,and priests,unto God the Father.

Joseph Smith had a belief not in the Bible,dragged it in to the Bible,ta da,the Mormon Church,Alice Bailey dragged the occult,and nature worship,and witchcraft,in to the Bible,and ta da,you have the new age movement,but others have contributed like Madam Blavatsky,but it appears as if Alice elevated it quite a lot.

L. Ron Hubbard dragged his belief in to the Bible,and ta da,you have Scientology.

And so on,which the Roman Catholic Church did the same thing,dragged their religious ways,before the Bible,in to the Bible,and ta da,you have the Roman Catholic Church.

The ways that are not of the Bible,that they drag in to the Bible,kind of becomes their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures.

A lot of people will interpret the Bible according to their view of reality.

If they are an occultist,that is how they will see it.

If they are prejudice,that is how they will see it,like the throne of David moved to England,giving them the God given right to rule,and the royal family descendants of David,and the ten lost tribes of Israel,being European,and the mark Cain received was black skin.

Like African Americans are the true Jews,along with others.

And so forth of people that have a belief,that is not part of the Bible,and interpret the Bible according to that belief.

Which the true Jews,and Jews,for God said He would bring again the captivity of Jacob,and bring the whole house of Israel back to their land,after the Roman Empire scattered them in to the nations,and when Israel became a nation,I do not see Europeans,African Americans,Latinos,Native Americans,and Mexicans,going back to Israel,but the people that are going back there are the true Jews,which is none of those other people,because God said He is going to bring the whole house of Israel back to their land,and none of those groups are going there.
You do realize who populated Israel after WW2 right?? IT WAS EUROPEANS and RUSSIANS!! This isn't that long ago, do you not have cable tv or books where you live?