Indulgences save you??????

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Mec99

Banned
#1
Jul 4, 2015
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#1
Matthew 4:17
[SUP]17 [/SUP]From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Matthew 4:17 means to be Repentant in the Heart.

Why did the Catholic Church turn the Repentant of the Heart into paying Indulgences for the forgiveness of ones Sins?

Why does Power and Money mean more to the Catholics then entering into Paradise with Jesus? The Catholic Church Motto was "Indulgences save you!".

How can Money give Salvation to anyone? And why did the Catholic Church teach this?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#2
Jul 3, 2015
55,857
26,019
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#2
Jerome erred in translating repent/ance as penance. The original
Greek word is/was Metanoia, which is defined as a "change of mind."
 
Yonah

Yonah

Senior Member
#3
Oct 31, 2014
1,074
103
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#3
truth is I don't know much of the Catholic beliefs but I will say this, within that faith are many sincere and precious souls who our Savior died to redeem, as is in any faith, to answer the question of greed though : the answer is very simple, you can always tell by a persons actions and words who their god really is.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#4
Jul 31, 2013
36,647
13,124
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#4
the sale of indulgences is an obviously false and obviously corrupt scheme, isn't it?

i mean, you do see that, right? so you're not asking a serious question -- just kind of making a point of bringing it up?

well, i will say this though -- this happened at a time when much of the church was illiterate concerning scripture. when much of the church was illiterate concerning theology. when the church itself was highly politicized internally and highly involved in secular affairs, with lots of concerns in secular governments and worldly possessions and power. so that perhaps even those people who were literate enough in scripture were able to convince themselves somehow that this was 'OK' and justifiable -- because of the financial gain and the gain of influence it gave the church.

do you guys think we ought to be watching out for this kind of thing to be going on again? that we have a 'church membership' that is far larger than the body of actual believers, and that we don't by and large know much about doctrine, or the scripture, and that we have corporately much more interest in how the church relates to secular things like government, politics, worldly power, influence, and membership?

& if you agree with any of that, what do you think that you, personally, can do about it? what can i personally do about this? ((other than complaining about it on the internet, or secluding myself because 'they all bad'))


sum it up:

* can something like this happen again?
* what can you & i personally do to combat it happening ?
 
Yonah

Yonah

Senior Member
#5
Oct 31, 2014
1,074
103
48
#5
posthuman said:
the sale of indulgences is an obviously false and obviously corrupt scheme, isn't it?

i mean, you do see that, right? so you're not asking a serious question -- just kind of making a point of bringing it up?

well, i will say this though -- this happened at a time when much of the church was illiterate concerning scripture. when much of the church was illiterate concerning theology. when the church itself was highly politicized internally and highly involved in secular affairs, with lots of concerns in secular governments and worldly possessions and power. so that perhaps even those people who were literate enough in scripture were able to convince themselves somehow that this was 'OK' and justifiable -- because of the financial gain and the gain of influence it gave the church.

do you guys think we ought to be watching out for this kind of thing to be going on again? that we have a 'church membership' that is far larger than the body of actual believers, and that we don't by and large know much about doctrine, or the scripture, and that we have corporately much more interest in how the church relates to secular things like government, politics, worldly power, influence, and membership?

& if you agree with any of that, what do you think that you, personally, can do about it? what can i personally do about this? ((other than complaining about it on the internet, or secluding myself because 'they all bad'))


sum it up:

* can something like this happen again?
* what can you & i personally do to combat it happening ?
Click to expand...
yes it can , and the fact is, there will always be those who chose a different way... rather then study for themselves they choose to listen and follow others who speak lies and error, leading many astray because they lean on the arm of flesh rather then our Savior.
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#6
Feb 24, 2009
3,027
1,022
113
New Zealand
#6
The Roman Catholic Church began veering from biblical teaching early on. I think the start of it was instead of having one pastor/bishop for one church, they had multiple churches under one bishop. Too much power given to one person.

Then they had pedo-baptism (infant baptism).. not accepting scripture that shows babies under the age of accountability being kept under grace by God. Also changing the mode of baptism to 'sprinkling'.. which also extended to adults.. instead of immersion.

They also had baptism for salvation.. as part of the sacraments. Not accepting scripture/having their own way of saying baptism can save eternally as part of a series of other works.

Then there is worship of Mary.. elevating her to be prayed to.. along with saints.

There are other things too.

There are catholics that are saved though.. many of them. Because they understood salvation. They are learning the wrong kind of teaching but this doesn't mean they were never saved.
 
B

Bestil_Andno

Member
#7
Jun 8, 2016
98
3
0
#7
Mec99 said:
Matthew 4:17
[SUP]17 [/SUP]From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Matthew 4:17 means to be Repentant in the Heart.

Why did the Catholic Church turn the Repentant of the Heart into paying Indulgences for the forgiveness of ones Sins?
Click to expand...
Hey Mec,

With all due respect, your post reveals pretty clearly that you do not understand the doctrine of indulgences. You have stood up a straw man.

Indulgences simply do not forgive a person's sins. The Catholic Church doesn't teach that and never has. You are mistaken.

Why does Power and Money mean more to the Catholics then entering into Paradise with Jesus?
Click to expand...
That is an awfully broad brush that you are painting Catholics with right there.

I think a better way to phrase it would be: "Why does Power and Money mean more to some people then entering into Paradise with Jesus?" And the "some people" could be some Catholics, some non-Catholic Christians, or even non-believers.

The Catholic Church Motto was "Indulgences save you!".
Click to expand...
Cite a source please?

How can Money give Salvation to anyone? And why did the Catholic Church teach this?
Click to expand...
Cite a source please?

Look, you misunderstand what indulgences are. I apologize that I will have to post this and be unable to continue the discussion with you. Seriously. I will not have access to a computer for a few days and I know how public threads can become after a couple of days. I'll be so far out of the loop that it is hard to ever get back in it.

So I have attached a couple of links for you below so you can learn what indulgences are from a Catholic perspective. I would recommend that you read them and don't freak out. Yes, they are from a Catholic source. But doesn't that make sense? I mean, if you want to know about something Catholic....you should ask a Catholic. If you want to know something about a Baptist....you should ask a Baptist. If you want.....well, you get the idea. I understand that you probably will still not agree with indulgences....however, at least you will have a better understanding of how Catholics view the topic and what indulgences really are (and are not).

God bless.

Primer on Indulgences | Catholic Answers

Myths about Indulgences | Catholic Answers
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#8
Jul 3, 2015
55,857
26,019
113
#8
Those who claim that indulgences are no longer part of (Roman Catholic) Church teaching have the admirable desire to distance themselves from abuses that occurred around the time of the Protestant Reformation. They also want to remove stumbling blocks that prevent non-Catholics from taking a positive view of the Church. As admirable as these motives are, the claim that indulgences are not part of Church teaching today is false. See more here: https://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/PRIMINDU.HTM
 
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