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K
I am an absolute believer in a young earth. In fact, this has played a critical role in my renewed faith. I've always been a believer and have believed in the power of Jesus's sacrifice to save the world from it's sins, however the age of the earth is NOT a topic to be taken lightly as I see many throw it under the carpet.
When people say things such as - "It doesn't matter how old the earth is." then those same people are playing into the plan of satan. Oh no. I'm stepping on some toes. I know. Because there are a lot of people who have made this comment.
Why do I say this? Well, look at what satan's plan is. It is to LIE and deceive people in order to destroy any possible amount of faith they may have in God. I went my whole life assuming that what science taught us about the age of the earth to be true. I believed along with everyone else that it was billions of years old.
Now, let's just assume for a moment that new undeniable evidence were to come along through channels of SCIENCE indicating that the earth were actually only 10,000 years old. That raises questions to why we believed for so long that the earth was billions of years old. Who actually wants you to believe that. There is a LOT of effort being placed on getting you to believe that. It would have been satan's plan.
What would the age of the earth have to do with satan's plan of destroying faith?
Slow down and think about it. When you mentally perceive of the universe to be billions of years old, we as people begin to make up stories about what happened during all that time. We talk about ice ages, and many other grandiose stories. Every story that we create about what happened during those billions of years that we have been trained to believe in allow doubt to creep into our minds. Doubt about a real God. The real God, who has told us what ACTUALLY happened.
I believe that God preserved this information about the creation of the earth deliberately because he knew it would be something satan would use against men. Please stop thinking that it is a meaningless point.
When we say things like "it has nothing to do with my salvation." Your right. Hands down. The age of the earth is not going to save you. But, you know what else isn't going to save you? The bible. The bible doesn't save anyone either. We know that ONLY the blood of Christ has saved us. But, we're not going to suggest to Christians to get rid of their bibles are we? Or even slightly hint to it's insignificance. No. Because it is thru the words in the bible that we have a leading chance to understand the Kingdom of Heaven.
The BIBLE
From the scriptures we understand that the teachings of God were that DEATH did not exist until the fall of Adam and Eve. There was NO death of ANY kind. This is a critical point. I believe that included animals and all creations of God. Death did not exist.
SCIENCE
Science teaches us the opposite. Of course. There's no way to get around that when you teach someone that the earth was billions of years old.
FOOD FOR THOUGHT
Scientifically, we know that the sun is gradually getting smaller and the earth moves away from the sun by and inch or so, each year. You can do this math even if you are in elementary school. If the sun is getting smaller, and we are moving away from the sun at that rate, that means that billions of years ago, the earth couldn't have even existed.....and if it did, you can bet your next paycheck there wasn't any water on it. No ICE ages, etc.
There is far too much other evidence of a young earth.
The most important part is that you don't let satan get in your life and fool you and others.
Love to everyone,
Kyle
When people say things such as - "It doesn't matter how old the earth is." then those same people are playing into the plan of satan. Oh no. I'm stepping on some toes. I know. Because there are a lot of people who have made this comment.
Why do I say this? Well, look at what satan's plan is. It is to LIE and deceive people in order to destroy any possible amount of faith they may have in God. I went my whole life assuming that what science taught us about the age of the earth to be true. I believed along with everyone else that it was billions of years old.
Now, let's just assume for a moment that new undeniable evidence were to come along through channels of SCIENCE indicating that the earth were actually only 10,000 years old. That raises questions to why we believed for so long that the earth was billions of years old. Who actually wants you to believe that. There is a LOT of effort being placed on getting you to believe that. It would have been satan's plan.
What would the age of the earth have to do with satan's plan of destroying faith?
Slow down and think about it. When you mentally perceive of the universe to be billions of years old, we as people begin to make up stories about what happened during all that time. We talk about ice ages, and many other grandiose stories. Every story that we create about what happened during those billions of years that we have been trained to believe in allow doubt to creep into our minds. Doubt about a real God. The real God, who has told us what ACTUALLY happened.
I believe that God preserved this information about the creation of the earth deliberately because he knew it would be something satan would use against men. Please stop thinking that it is a meaningless point.
When we say things like "it has nothing to do with my salvation." Your right. Hands down. The age of the earth is not going to save you. But, you know what else isn't going to save you? The bible. The bible doesn't save anyone either. We know that ONLY the blood of Christ has saved us. But, we're not going to suggest to Christians to get rid of their bibles are we? Or even slightly hint to it's insignificance. No. Because it is thru the words in the bible that we have a leading chance to understand the Kingdom of Heaven.
The BIBLE
From the scriptures we understand that the teachings of God were that DEATH did not exist until the fall of Adam and Eve. There was NO death of ANY kind. This is a critical point. I believe that included animals and all creations of God. Death did not exist.
SCIENCE
Science teaches us the opposite. Of course. There's no way to get around that when you teach someone that the earth was billions of years old.
FOOD FOR THOUGHT
Scientifically, we know that the sun is gradually getting smaller and the earth moves away from the sun by and inch or so, each year. You can do this math even if you are in elementary school. If the sun is getting smaller, and we are moving away from the sun at that rate, that means that billions of years ago, the earth couldn't have even existed.....and if it did, you can bet your next paycheck there wasn't any water on it. No ICE ages, etc.
There is far too much other evidence of a young earth.
The most important part is that you don't let satan get in your life and fool you and others.
Love to everyone,
Kyle
Hi,
You said "I belive that included animals...". But it is only your intepretation, Bible does not say that. So it is not very good if it has become your "critical point".
These "moving away" (of moon or sun or whatever) arguments try to simplify things too much, the laws of universe are more complex than just basic math.
You said "I belive that included animals...". But it is only your intepretation, Bible does not say that. So it is not very good if it has become your "critical point".
These "moving away" (of moon or sun or whatever) arguments try to simplify things too much, the laws of universe are more complex than just basic math.
K
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I won't engage much further in this conversation. However, just to address the points you raised I will respond to those only and give you the last word if you so choose.
About death. There is no credible reason to exclude all forms of life.
Math of sun / earth distance increasing yearly by 15 cm with a current distance of 149.6 millions km. I agree. It's not trivial math. But, it's easy to understand that if the earth were billions of years old. It would have been entirely uninhabitable without water. But genesis tells us that water came on the first day, even before light.
So, I'll take the bible's side on this one.
I love you brother. I'm not here to criticize. I'm here to wake up and wake others up also. But, it's up to each individual. I'm not here to save people. Jesus already did that.
Kyle
About death. There is no credible reason to exclude all forms of life.
Math of sun / earth distance increasing yearly by 15 cm with a current distance of 149.6 millions km. I agree. It's not trivial math. But, it's easy to understand that if the earth were billions of years old. It would have been entirely uninhabitable without water. But genesis tells us that water came on the first day, even before light.
So, I'll take the bible's side on this one.
I love you brother. I'm not here to criticize. I'm here to wake up and wake others up also. But, it's up to each individual. I'm not here to save people. Jesus already did that.
Kyle
If there was no death, there was no need for the tree of life and the thread "you will die" meant nothing, because Adam could not know what death is.
The eating from the tree of life would grant Adam the eternal life.
So the natural order was even for him to die.
Bible said - and death came upon all men. Nothing more, the rest is our interpretation. What is not said explicitly should not be the critical points of our theology.
---
During the formation of the planet, the water was all over the surface and there was darkness because the atmosphere was thick.
You can see that for example here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYOarZKipnU
12:00 is Gen 1:2
The eating from the tree of life would grant Adam the eternal life.
So the natural order was even for him to die.
Bible said - and death came upon all men. Nothing more, the rest is our interpretation. What is not said explicitly should not be the critical points of our theology.
---
During the formation of the planet, the water was all over the surface and there was darkness because the atmosphere was thick.
You can see that for example here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYOarZKipnU
12:00 is Gen 1:2
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I'm not putting anything in between those verses when I showed the actual Hebrew meaning of "without form, and void", along with showing how the state of the earth at verse 2 is about a flood of waters covering an already existing earth.
My suggestion of what could have happened to cause the earth to go into that "without form, and void" ruined state of Gen.1:2 comes from first understanding that God originally created His creation at Gen.1:1 and not at verse 2, and that something had to have happened in after verse 1 to cause the ruined state of the earth at verse 2.
You are speculating on the context of the Jer.4:22-28 verses, whereas I am not. God was angry with the Jews because they were rebellious against Him, so He warned of bringing the destroyer upon them, and at verse 22 He said they were stupid children ("sottish") and have none understanding; then... He begins to remind them of a destruction that He Himself did upon the earth long ago, with tohuw va bohuw ("without form, and void") tied in with the state of the earth at Gen.1:2.
I find it amazing that God's people would allow man's pseudo-science to influence their interpretation of the state of the earth at Gen.1:2, which they allow one to think it means the earth was not formed yet then, and only in some gaseous state of nothingness from a mistranslation of Hebrew tohuw va bohuw. Understanding Revelation 21 where it says in the future there will be no more sea is a matter linked to that event of Gen.1:2-9, but I doubt you will ever be allowed to understand it as long as you follow man's reasoning on those Biblical events.
My suggestion of what could have happened to cause the earth to go into that "without form, and void" ruined state of Gen.1:2 comes from first understanding that God originally created His creation at Gen.1:1 and not at verse 2, and that something had to have happened in after verse 1 to cause the ruined state of the earth at verse 2.
You are speculating on the context of the Jer.4:22-28 verses, whereas I am not. God was angry with the Jews because they were rebellious against Him, so He warned of bringing the destroyer upon them, and at verse 22 He said they were stupid children ("sottish") and have none understanding; then... He begins to remind them of a destruction that He Himself did upon the earth long ago, with tohuw va bohuw ("without form, and void") tied in with the state of the earth at Gen.1:2.
I find it amazing that God's people would allow man's pseudo-science to influence their interpretation of the state of the earth at Gen.1:2, which they allow one to think it means the earth was not formed yet then, and only in some gaseous state of nothingness from a mistranslation of Hebrew tohuw va bohuw. Understanding Revelation 21 where it says in the future there will be no more sea is a matter linked to that event of Gen.1:2-9, but I doubt you will ever be allowed to understand it as long as you follow man's reasoning on those Biblical events.
But there's that reasoning of man type of thinking you're doing there again.
The difference when studying God's Word is to heed what the actual Scripture states, regardless of whether we truly understand it at that point in our study yet. A little speculation is fine, as long as it follows the line given in Scripture and not from a philosophical type reasoning like the Greeks, etc.
At the end of the Revelation we are shown there is no more death after the lake of fire event, and we are shown the tree of life and God's River of the waters of life existing. In Ezekiel 47 we're even shown the tree of life existing in the middle east on earth in the future, which is a parallel to Revelation.
Just after having read those Scriptures, does that mean we immediately must apply a scientific type reasoning to it in order to interpret those Scriptures? Haven't you figured out yet that in the world to come there's things then that will never manifest during this present world? So how... can you go applying man's scientific reasoning of today to those eternal things of the world to come? You cannot, and it only shows how you are actually following the reasoning style of the ancient Greeks who loved hearing of new ideas but never actually came to the truth in God's Word.
So, like Revelation says for the world to come, there won't be any more death. And the tree of life will exist then with no death. So since that is true per God's Word, then what makes you think the tree of life couldn't exist prior... to death entering in?
Furthermore, haven't you read 1 John where he said the devil is who sinned from the beginning? Sin began with the devil rebelling against God, coveting His throne. It didn't begin with Adam. Flesh sin is what began with Adam. And by the time of the serpent in Eden tempting Eve, that shows Satan was already in his role of today as tempter, having fallen, which also means... death was assigned to the devil before... Adam.
The difference when studying God's Word is to heed what the actual Scripture states, regardless of whether we truly understand it at that point in our study yet. A little speculation is fine, as long as it follows the line given in Scripture and not from a philosophical type reasoning like the Greeks, etc.
At the end of the Revelation we are shown there is no more death after the lake of fire event, and we are shown the tree of life and God's River of the waters of life existing. In Ezekiel 47 we're even shown the tree of life existing in the middle east on earth in the future, which is a parallel to Revelation.
Just after having read those Scriptures, does that mean we immediately must apply a scientific type reasoning to it in order to interpret those Scriptures? Haven't you figured out yet that in the world to come there's things then that will never manifest during this present world? So how... can you go applying man's scientific reasoning of today to those eternal things of the world to come? You cannot, and it only shows how you are actually following the reasoning style of the ancient Greeks who loved hearing of new ideas but never actually came to the truth in God's Word.
So, like Revelation says for the world to come, there won't be any more death. And the tree of life will exist then with no death. So since that is true per God's Word, then what makes you think the tree of life couldn't exist prior... to death entering in?
Furthermore, haven't you read 1 John where he said the devil is who sinned from the beginning? Sin began with the devil rebelling against God, coveting His throne. It didn't begin with Adam. Flesh sin is what began with Adam. And by the time of the serpent in Eden tempting Eve, that shows Satan was already in his role of today as tempter, having fallen, which also means... death was assigned to the devil before... Adam.
Adam and Eve were taken out of the garden because if they did eat of the tree of life in their sinful state they would have ended up in hell because they would live forever after.
God protected them by taking them out of the garden because He loved them and wanted to give them a chance of redemption.
The tree of life was there in the garden...
God protected them by taking them out of the garden because He loved them and wanted to give them a chance of redemption.
The tree of life was there in the garden...
B
thats a good thought on Gen.1:1 the earth could have been complete at 1:1 then something happened to make it void formless then reshaped into what we know today as earth. Some bible scholar views are that Gen.1:1 is the introduction title to Genesis creation. could very well be because before people started using the word bible which took the building of the city of Byblos for the word to come into existence ""Byblos a major city were the mass production of paper was being sold"" before all that the word Torah canon etc. the book title. but even before Hebrew word writings, the very first writings was a smaller volume. the bible Torah scripture etc. in general was passed down verbally in the beginning and then once papyrus was invented people started writing these accounts on paper. the bible was built in stages as well, the accounts happened over many many years thus where added over time to what is known as the complete bible OT n NT combined.. In my opinion even statements about the water being a gas could well be because water can be in a gas,liquid,solid and scripture doesn't discribe the state of the water in the beginning. A person could say create hydrogen and helium with a dash of lithium a pinch of beryllium add a breath of oxygen/life you got a light Galaxy pie, bake at 14 billion degrees out comes a spiral Galaxy pie with little sparkling pieces of fruit in the spirals, sprinkle some sugar drops around the sparkle fruit "yummies That's a nice pie, Parkay or butter 
Indeed, planet Earth was created in the verse 1. But not the "dry land".
The surface of the planet was covered by waters. Then the days of 'terraforming' creation started.
Which is exactly what also the science says. So I see no reason to look for some other explanation.
I am not arguing about hebrew "without form and void", but I prefer the LXX reading "invisible and unprepared".
LXX is a very precise translation of the older hebrew text that is lost now. But this is not a crucial point. We can stick to "without form and void", but it gives less sense (what is under the water is not "void").
I do not know what you mean by pseudo-science, but Genesis is proved by science. According to mainstream science, the surface of planet was covered by waters and the land appeared from it later. So there is no problem for a Christian.
I think Jeremiah, in context, is about war and about the destroyed land during that war. I dont see why "without form and void" should point to something between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2.
The surface of the planet was covered by waters. Then the days of 'terraforming' creation started.
Which is exactly what also the science says. So I see no reason to look for some other explanation.
I am not arguing about hebrew "without form and void", but I prefer the LXX reading "invisible and unprepared".
LXX is a very precise translation of the older hebrew text that is lost now. But this is not a crucial point. We can stick to "without form and void", but it gives less sense (what is under the water is not "void").
I do not know what you mean by pseudo-science, but Genesis is proved by science. According to mainstream science, the surface of planet was covered by waters and the land appeared from it later. So there is no problem for a Christian.
I think Jeremiah, in context, is about war and about the destroyed land during that war. I dont see why "without form and void" should point to something between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2.
I think its important to know what genre we are reading.
Revelation is a book of images, Genesis is mainly history record.
Maybe the tree of life in Genesis, talking snake etc are also images, I do not know.
But Revelation is certainly the book of images, so like the city is just the image of the Church, so the tree of life is only the image of Christ.
There will be no real, "physical" tree of life in our future life, when we will be in the spiritual bodies.
So I dont think this "tree of life" from Revelation should change anything on the fact that Adam needed to eat from the tree of life to not to die.
He was not immortal without it (whatever the "it" was, the real tree or something only symbolized by the tree).
Revelation is a book of images, Genesis is mainly history record.
Maybe the tree of life in Genesis, talking snake etc are also images, I do not know.
But Revelation is certainly the book of images, so like the city is just the image of the Church, so the tree of life is only the image of Christ.
There will be no real, "physical" tree of life in our future life, when we will be in the spiritual bodies.
So I dont think this "tree of life" from Revelation should change anything on the fact that Adam needed to eat from the tree of life to not to die.
He was not immortal without it (whatever the "it" was, the real tree or something only symbolized by the tree).
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We need to stop seeing the book of Revelation as just a book of images. Yes, there is symbolism but usually you can tell it is symbolic. Though the letters to those churches told them straight out what they were doing wrong, except for one church who God had nothing wrong to say about. There is history that has already occurred in it and history that will occur in the future. The tree of life in Genesis, is the same tree of life in Revelation. I don't see this as just an image as some people apparently do. Revelation is not just images, there is realism as well, keep in mind when John describes future things, he has a hard time describing it and can only describe in pictures that the Jewish audience would understand.
As for this topic, I think it has been derailed. We have left what should been a discussion of on old earth and young earth and now have pursued rabbit trails. Let us get back on topic people and enough of the snide remarks from both sides. We are Christians and the world should know it by our love for each other, which Jesus prayed for. God bless.
As for this topic, I think it has been derailed. We have left what should been a discussion of on old earth and young earth and now have pursued rabbit trails. Let us get back on topic people and enough of the snide remarks from both sides. We are Christians and the world should know it by our love for each other, which Jesus prayed for. God bless.
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We'll just have to disagree then...
Romans 8 has another lesson linked to the ruined state of the earth at Gen.1:2.
Rom 8:18-25
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Paul was speaking of the world to come with that. The Greek word for "creature" there is the same word translated to "creation" further down. So Paul is speaking of God's creation here. The creation waits for the manifestation of the sons of God, which Paul is pointing to the future world to come with that time of manifesting.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him Who hath subjected the same in hope,
The creation was "made subject to vanity", when was that?
Did God do that with the of flood of Noah's day? That is the only major event of destruction upon the whole earth clearly written of prior to today, and Paul was speaking about the creation existing in a state of vanity in the present now tense. Yet we are not shown any real earth changes between the time of Adam and after Noah, except men and animals being wiped off the surface of the earth. God didn't tell Noah to collect two of every tree and plant, which shows He didn't destroy those things off the earth with Noah's flood.
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
God placed His creation into "the bondage of corruption" for this present world, as it like us seeks the coming redemption in Christ Jesus. That is why today's state of creation is imperfect; everything dies, the majority of the earth is uninhabitable because of waters overspread upon it, and even much of the existing land is uninhabitable because deserts, steep canyons, subzero zones, etc.
A deeper study in God's Word on these things reveals how His creation of today is not... how He originally made His creation. At the end of Revelation we are told there will be no more death. Apply that concept to His creation, and it reveals a glory that is practically unimaginable compared to today's bondage state of the creation.
Isaiah gives us examples of carnivorous animals that will become herbivores in that future new heavens and a new earth.
Revelation says there will be no more sea, so where's all the waters of the oceans going to go? That involves a major link to the events of Gen.1:2-9 about the waters of a flood overspread upon an already existing earth...
Science knows there are tropical animal and plant fossil remains at both the north and south poles. In New Mexico there exists the putrefied forest, which is actually a group of fossilized palm tree trunks. Even of late, the geologist Robert M. Schoch has proven the Giza plateau in Egypt was once like a tropical rain forest, and not a desert at all. I also have to mention the woolly mammoths found frozen in the ice in the Arctic still with plant vegetation in their mouths, and undigested in their stomachs, showing they were caught in an open field grazing when a sudden flood of waters fell upon them at the same time of an instant freeze (that has been, and still is, very puzzling to scientists).
Science says the earth's plates shifting and various ice ages have produced that above fossil evidence. I say it is evidence of the original perfect creation God created at Genesis 1:1, which suggests the original creation involved a fully closed canopy atmosphere around the earth producing an even climate like in a greenhouse, thus how tropical plant and animals could exist at both poles, and in areas like New Mexico, etc., as a good majority of dinosaur fossils in the U.S. are found in the western regions. In the world to come, I believe that is what God is going to put back, moving the waters of today's oceans and seas back up... into the sky's atmosphere, plugging all the holes in it to re-create the original canopy cover around the earth He made at His original perfect creation.
It's especially the holes in our cloud atmosphere that causes today's violent weather on earth, heating up the air near the earth's surface which rises to mix with cold air up high, stirring up storms, waters evaporating and rising to fill the clouds, etc. I see that having ended with the world to come. The 'no more sea' idea in Revelation links to that.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Just as we await the coming redemption by our Lord Jesus, the creation also groans and travaileth in pain waiting for deliverance from the bondage God put it in for this world.
Romans 8 has another lesson linked to the ruined state of the earth at Gen.1:2.
Rom 8:18-25
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Paul was speaking of the world to come with that. The Greek word for "creature" there is the same word translated to "creation" further down. So Paul is speaking of God's creation here. The creation waits for the manifestation of the sons of God, which Paul is pointing to the future world to come with that time of manifesting.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him Who hath subjected the same in hope,
The creation was "made subject to vanity", when was that?
Did God do that with the of flood of Noah's day? That is the only major event of destruction upon the whole earth clearly written of prior to today, and Paul was speaking about the creation existing in a state of vanity in the present now tense. Yet we are not shown any real earth changes between the time of Adam and after Noah, except men and animals being wiped off the surface of the earth. God didn't tell Noah to collect two of every tree and plant, which shows He didn't destroy those things off the earth with Noah's flood.
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
God placed His creation into "the bondage of corruption" for this present world, as it like us seeks the coming redemption in Christ Jesus. That is why today's state of creation is imperfect; everything dies, the majority of the earth is uninhabitable because of waters overspread upon it, and even much of the existing land is uninhabitable because deserts, steep canyons, subzero zones, etc.
A deeper study in God's Word on these things reveals how His creation of today is not... how He originally made His creation. At the end of Revelation we are told there will be no more death. Apply that concept to His creation, and it reveals a glory that is practically unimaginable compared to today's bondage state of the creation.
Isaiah gives us examples of carnivorous animals that will become herbivores in that future new heavens and a new earth.
Revelation says there will be no more sea, so where's all the waters of the oceans going to go? That involves a major link to the events of Gen.1:2-9 about the waters of a flood overspread upon an already existing earth...
Science knows there are tropical animal and plant fossil remains at both the north and south poles. In New Mexico there exists the putrefied forest, which is actually a group of fossilized palm tree trunks. Even of late, the geologist Robert M. Schoch has proven the Giza plateau in Egypt was once like a tropical rain forest, and not a desert at all. I also have to mention the woolly mammoths found frozen in the ice in the Arctic still with plant vegetation in their mouths, and undigested in their stomachs, showing they were caught in an open field grazing when a sudden flood of waters fell upon them at the same time of an instant freeze (that has been, and still is, very puzzling to scientists).
Science says the earth's plates shifting and various ice ages have produced that above fossil evidence. I say it is evidence of the original perfect creation God created at Genesis 1:1, which suggests the original creation involved a fully closed canopy atmosphere around the earth producing an even climate like in a greenhouse, thus how tropical plant and animals could exist at both poles, and in areas like New Mexico, etc., as a good majority of dinosaur fossils in the U.S. are found in the western regions. In the world to come, I believe that is what God is going to put back, moving the waters of today's oceans and seas back up... into the sky's atmosphere, plugging all the holes in it to re-create the original canopy cover around the earth He made at His original perfect creation.
It's especially the holes in our cloud atmosphere that causes today's violent weather on earth, heating up the air near the earth's surface which rises to mix with cold air up high, stirring up storms, waters evaporating and rising to fill the clouds, etc. I see that having ended with the world to come. The 'no more sea' idea in Revelation links to that.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Just as we await the coming redemption by our Lord Jesus, the creation also groans and travaileth in pain waiting for deliverance from the bondage God put it in for this world.
We need to stop seeing the book of Revelation as just a book of images. Yes, there is symbolism but usually you can tell it is symbolic. Though the letters to those churches told them straight out what they were doing wrong, except for one church who God had nothing wrong to say about. There is history that has already occurred in it and history that will occur in the future. The tree of life in Genesis, is the same tree of life in Revelation. I don't see this as just an image as some people apparently do. Revelation is not just images, there is realism as well, keep in mind when John describes future things, he has a hard time describing it and can only describe in pictures that the Jewish audience would understand.
As for this topic, I think it has been derailed. We have left what should been a discussion of on old earth and young earth and now have pursued rabbit trails. Let us get back on topic people and enough of the snide remarks from both sides. We are Christians and the world should know it by our love for each other, which Jesus prayed for. God bless.
As for this topic, I think it has been derailed. We have left what should been a discussion of on old earth and young earth and now have pursued rabbit trails. Let us get back on topic people and enough of the snide remarks from both sides. We are Christians and the world should know it by our love for each other, which Jesus prayed for. God bless.
You can have a different view on Revelation, but for me its an image.
I am sure that when one has this view, he is seeing it everywhere. But why do you think Genesis says this, in the first place?
Every translation has "and the earth/land was without form and void" (based on Massoretic text) or "and the earth/land was invisible and unprepared" (based on LXX text).
Where do you see that there was a different creation before this? Where do you see "and the earth become void..."?
Every translation has "and the earth/land was without form and void" (based on Massoretic text) or "and the earth/land was invisible and unprepared" (based on LXX text).
Where do you see that there was a different creation before this? Where do you see "and the earth become void..."?
Jude v6, "And the angels which kept not their first estate,but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgement of the great day."
Also see 2 Pet 2:4
Rev 22:5, "And there shall be no night there."
The angels who rebelled are in a place of darkness until the time of judgement, (Rev 20:13, death and hell).
Where is this place of darkness?
Away from God's love and presence it might be assumed.
Could it be the darkness and void referred to in Gen 1?
I always have assumed that it was talking about the great void of outer space that you see at night.
Just think of it without all the stars and galaxies that were created, an endless void.
Only Where God is, and where God is not.
Where love is, and where love is not.
This theme is seen throughout the scriptures.
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Also see 2 Pet 2:4
Rev 22:5, "And there shall be no night there."
The angels who rebelled are in a place of darkness until the time of judgement, (Rev 20:13, death and hell).
Where is this place of darkness?
Away from God's love and presence it might be assumed.
Could it be the darkness and void referred to in Gen 1?
I always have assumed that it was talking about the great void of outer space that you see at night.
Just think of it without all the stars and galaxies that were created, an endless void.
Only Where God is, and where God is not.
Where love is, and where love is not.
This theme is seen throughout the scriptures.
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