Matthew 7 21

Mimi84 · Jul 25, 2016

Hey folks, hope you are all well today..

Does anyone else struggle with salvation? I do at times.. Reading lovely verses then get pulled back to worrying again when reading chapters like Matthew 7 21. Is this aimed at us all?

I'm not the type to take certain parts of the bible seriously and leave other bits out

Stephanie X

Stunnedbygrace · Jul 25, 2016

Ah, mimi, I know what you are saying!
There is a push and pull in me that I have noticed. It is especially when I read the OT. It doesn't happen as much to me as it used to, thank God. But it used to be often. Reading the law and the prophets actually got me...doubting if I had understood the gospel right!

I thought this was partly because there was something inside me that seemed to want to gravitate back to performing the law. But sometime much later, I saw that it was more that when I saw the words humanly and literally that this push and pull happened. But that when I was shown the spirit of the words, I didn't have the...agonizing. Don't know if that will make sense to you...

mailmandan · Jul 25, 2016

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. *Seeking to obtain salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

These many people (who are unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in "their accomplishments/works" to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus never knew them which means they were never saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin.

Without faith it's impossible to please God. This is why Jesus referred to them as workers of iniquity/lawlessness! They were self righteous, just as ALL who trust in works-righteousness are.

I'll never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of someone who thinks salvation is by works.

Mimi84 · Jul 25, 2016

Thank you Stunnedbygrace

I guess the fear will leave me then.. I'm hoping and praying for that

Mimi84 · Jul 25, 2016

Thank you mailmandan

You used to be Catholic now Christian.. That's great..

Yes it's hard for us at times to think just believing is enough when I know I'm such a sinner..

I'm not a mature Christian yet. Your reply makes a lot of sense and has put me at ease

Stunnedbygrace · Jul 25, 2016

Mimi84 said:

Oh yes, if we just keep trusting our Lord, He will lead us quite well out of that fear!
He will give us understanding if we keep asking Him.
I have said to Him more times than I could count - It just becomes very muddled and confusing to me but I trust you to show me, Lord. If you don't show me then I will just go on in this confusion forever. So I will just wait for You and keep trusting You.

Mimi84 · Jul 25, 2016

Yes I get very very confused and scared at times.. We are in a spiritual battle.. My head was never this wrecked before I got saved but I also never felt the beautiful peace and joy of God either

Stephanie

Adstar · Jul 25, 2016

Mimi84 said:

Matthew 7:
21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Mini84,, take close note of what the ones that shall be rejected are relying on to justify their salvation to Jesus.. """ many wonderful works """ WORKS .. Yes you can take this passage seriously indeed..

1 John 3 :
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Do you see how the ones

InSpiritInTruth · Jul 25, 2016

Mimi84 said:

Keep reading, Jesus tells us what the wise man and foolish man looks like.

Matthew 7:21-27 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."

It is very clear in the above that Jesus was saying be a doer of His words and sayings, not just a hearer who does not.

Utah · Jul 25, 2016

Mimi84 said:

Remember this, my sister, the fact that you're worried about it means that you actually don't have to worry about it. Your heart is right with God. Be at peace and know His loving grace is sufficient.

Utah · Jul 25, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

Keep reading, Jesus tells us what the wise man and foolish man looks like.

Matthew 7:21-27 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."

It is very clear in the above that Jesus was saying be a doer of His words and sayings, not just a hearer who does not.

It's all at the foot of the Cross.

Th0mas · Jul 25, 2016

1 Thessalonians 5:

19 Do not put out the Spirit's fire;
20 do not treat prophecies with contempt.
21 Test everything. Hold on to the good.

Compared to:

Jeremiah 24:2

One basket had very good figs, like those that ripen early; the other basket had very bad figs, so bad they could not be eaten.

If there is a need to say, from that above it may be thought that when reading explanations of scripture a person should separate the parts that are true from the parts that are false in the explanations and "Hold on to the good." and that there should be no biased judgement.

What may you think after looking at what you may look at below ?

"Wherefore said He not, “but he that doeth my will?” Because for the time it was a great gain for them to receive even this first; yea it was very great, considering their weakness. And moreover He intimated the one also by the other. And withal this may be mentioned, that in fact there is no other will of the Son besides that of the Father.

And here He seems to me to be censuring the Jews chiefly, laying as they did the whole stress upon the doctrines, and taking no care of practice. For which Paul also blames them, saying, “Behold thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, and knowest His will:” “Who then are these men?” you ask. Many of them that believed received gifts such as he that was casting out devils, and was not with Him; such as Judas; for even he too, wicked as he was, had a gift. And in the Old Testament also this may be found, in that grace hath oftentimes wrought upon unworthy persons, that it might do good to others. That is, since all men were not meet for all things, but some were of a pure life, not having so great faith, and others just the contrary; by these sayings, while He urges the one to show forth much faith, the others too He was summoning by this His unspeakable gift to become better men. Wherefore also with great abundance did He bestow that grace. For “we wrought,” it is said, “many mighty works.” But “then will I profess unto them, I knew you not.” For “now indeed they suppose they are my friends; but then shall they know, that not as to friends did I give to them.”

And why marvel if He hath bestowed gifts on men that have believed on Him, though without life suitable to their faith, when even on those who have fallen from both these, He is unquestionably found working? For so Balaam was an alien both from faith and from a truly good life; nevertheless grace wrought on him for the service of other men. And Pharaoh too was of the same sort: yet for all that even to him He signified the things to come. And Nebuchadnezzar was very full of iniquity; yet to him again He revealed what was to follow after many generations. And again to the son of this last, though surpassing his father in iniquity, He signified the things to come, ordering a marvellous and great dispensation. Accordingly because then also the beginnings of the gospel were taking place, and it was requisite that the manifestation of its power should be abundant, many even of the unworthy used to receive gifts. Howbeit, from those miracles no gain accrued to them; rather they are the more punished. Wherefore unto them did He utter even that fearful saying, “I never knew you:” there being many for whom His hatred begins already even here; whom He turns away from, even before the judgment.

Let us fear therefore, beloved; and let us take great heed to our life, neither let us account ourselves worse off, in that we do not work miracles now. For that will never be any advantage to us, as neither any disadvantage in our not working them, if we take heed to all virtue. Because for the miracles we ourselves are debtors, but for our life and our doings we have God our debtor.

3. Having now, you see, finished all, having discoursed accurately of all virtue, and pointed out the pretenders to it, of divers kinds, both such as for display fast and make prayers, and such as come in the sheep’s hide; and them too that spoil it, whom He also called swine and dogs: He proceeds to signify how great is the profit of virtue even here, and how great the mischief of wickedness, by saying,

“Whosoever therefore heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, shall be likened unto a wise man.”

As thus: What they shall suffer who do not (although they work miracles), ye have heard; but ye should know also what such as obey all these sayings shall enjoy; not in the world to come only, but even here. “For whosoever,” saith He, “heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, shall be likened to a wise man.”

Seest thou how He varies His discourse; at one time saying, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord,” and revealing Himself; at another time, “He that doeth the will of my Father;” and again, bringing in Himself as judge, “For many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name, and I will say, I know you not.” And here again He indicates Himself to have the power over all, this being why He said, “Whosoever heareth these sayings of mine.”"

NPNF1-10. St. Chrysostom: Homilies on the Gospel of Saint Matthew - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

mpaper345 · Jul 25, 2016

Mimi84 said:

[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

It does not matter how close we are to God,the flesh is still going to bother us.

But sometimes it comes from us worrying about things,when God said cast your cares upon Him for He cares for you.

The Spirit will push for us to do good,and the flesh will pull on us to do its own thing,for they are contrary to each other,so everybody has a push and pull situation,even Paul,but some rely on the Spirit more,and make it more tolerable in their life,where they can endure it quite easily.

PilgrimPassingThru · Jul 25, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

Amen, and here again (now I can see why you opened a thread on this part) notice how Mathew is all chopped up and once again verse 24 (with the "therefore") is gone from the equation of the foundation Jesus speaks of (which is inclusive of the one coming to him, hearing his words and doing them).

I will just link to your thread on this on my agreement to your above

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ighteousness-not-just-hearer.html#post2717883

InSpiritInTruth · Jul 25, 2016

PilgrimPassingThru said:

I believe with some it might be a case of selective hearing, caused by selective doing. LOL

mailmandan · Jul 26, 2016

Utah said:

Amen! As we read on in Matthew 7:24-27, we find two different foundations with two different results, and not salvation by works, as some would suppose. Each house has a different material upon which its foundation is laid, and each house has a different final outcome. One house is built by a wise man upon a rock and it stands. The other is built by a foolish man upon the sand and it collapses.

Those deceived by their own self-righteousness in Matthew 7:22-23 were "outwardly" doing all the things that the righteous would do yet they did not truly know Christ (had no personal relationship with Christ) which stemmed from not truly believing in Him. The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone. The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness.

*Only those who truly believe in Him are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them. *The foolish man twists the words of Jesus and acts on their own self-righteous works system and calls that acting on the words of Jesus.

p_rehbein · Jul 26, 2016

The only REAL WAY to reach an understanding of Matthew 7, verse 21 is to read it in context with the whole Chapter. For that matter, reading the whole recorded Gospel of Christ. Do that, and Matthew 7, verse 21 will not be a mystery, nor a reason to doubt ones salvation.

May not be the answer you need, but it is the answer provided by God in the Gospel of Christ, and imparted unto us by the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. Any "sound byte" provided by man to shed wisdom will never be worth the worry.

Mimi84 · Jul 26, 2016

I have read it all.. Just not the most intellectual of ppl lol

Stunnedbygrace · Jul 26, 2016

Mimi84 said:

Hah! The most intellectual of people often have a harder time! They think they can figure it out by applying their mind to it and so they don't say: Lord, teach us this parable.

They have great confidence in their own mind.

Mimi84 · Jul 26, 2016

Lol.. That's true I suppose..

Matthew 7 21

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