Human Independence

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iwant2serve

Senior Member
Apr 12, 2009
513
28
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#1
After Adam sinned (declared human independence) God call a nation to be his own through Abraham. In 1 Samuel 8 Israel declared their independence fro God again. They asked for a king to rule over them saying we what a king to judge us, go before us and lead us into battle. After all the things Samuel warned them that king would do they replied We want to be like all the other nations.

God had called this people out to be his own and that they should not be like all the other nations. God said I will be your God and you will be my people. In other words I will be your King and you will be my citizens. What Israel asked for God was already to them. Yet because God called them to be his people he continued to be with them calling them back but they continued to rely on their independence.

Take time to read the story then post your comments.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#2
I would not call this "independence". This word does not fit in, imho.
 

iwant2serve

Senior Member
Apr 12, 2009
513
28
28
#3
well anytime you declare that you no longer want to be under a King as a nation you are declaring your independence.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
764
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Australia
#4
well anytime you declare that you no longer want to be under a King as a nation you are declaring your independence.
I see what your saying, perhaps its more like this illustration? Look at England, they have a Prime Minister but the Queen still rules yeah? The Prime Minister still submits to the Kingdom. A good King should submit themselves to God (unlike Saul).
Do you think that illustration could be accurate?
 
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
39
0
#5
After Adam sinned (declared human independence) God call a nation to be his own through Abraham. In 1 Samuel 8 Israel declared their independence fro God again. They asked for a king to rule over them saying we what a king to judge us, go before us and lead us into battle. After all the things Samuel warned them that king would do they replied We want to be like all the other nations.

God had called this people out to be his own and that they should not be like all the other nations. God said I will be your God and you will be my people. In other words I will be your King and you will be my citizens. What Israel asked for God was already to them. Yet because God called them to be his people he continued to be with them calling them back but they continued to rely on their independence.

Take time to read the story then post your comments.
God said He put before Israel,a blessing,and a curse.If they followed God in the truth,a blessing,and nobody would be able to mess with them without paying the price,and they would prosper in their nation,but a curse if they went a whoring after other gods,which God would have prophets to tell them to turn back to God,but if they did not heed after a certain time,God said He would allow other nations to come against them,and defeat them,and they would be led captive,and taken to other nations.

But if God allowed a nation to come against them,and lead them captive,He always brought them back to their land,for He said,I am the LORD,I change not,therefore you sons of Jacob are not consumed.

God said when Israel is astray,being disobedient,that any time they call on Him in the truth,even in the latter days,God will work among them again,and cause things to be right again.

The Bible says all Israel shall be saved,which is the kingdom restored to them in the millennial reign of Christ,because the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Israel got chance after chance to be right with God,and will always get chance after chance,for God will never give up on them,and will work with them again,and bring them to the truth,that Jesus is their Messiah.

Israel wanted a king,but God said I am your King,but they persisted,so God gave them Saul,but it did not work out,so God took him off the throne,and gave it to David,and said his throne shall be established forever.

The world will come together and try to solve their problems,and after the 6 trumpets,they do not turn to God,but they want human interaction to help them,but God says I am your God,but they want the ways of man,so God will give them the beast,which it will not work out,so God will put Him down,and Jesus will rule on the throne of David for 1000 years.
 

iwant2serve

Senior Member
Apr 12, 2009
513
28
28
#6
I see what your saying, perhaps its more like this illustration? Look at England, they have a Prime Minister but the Queen still rules yeah? The Prime Minister still submits to the Kingdom. A good King should submit themselves to God (unlike Saul).
Do you think that illustration could be accurate?
I mean like the USA we declared our independence by rebelling against England and became a free nation. As Israel was chosen by God to be his people (citizens of his Kingdom) they choose to be independent and like all the other nations. In other words they were telling God a man can lead them better than he can.
 

Yonah

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2014
1,074
103
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#7
ok so how many (despite what they might say) actually do that on an individual basis? How many actually pray and seek heavenly council for every day choices? yes many are not requiring prayer but some are, are we really a peculiar people, or do we resemble the worldly? can folks tell a difference about you without you needing to tell them your a Christian? fact is its hard to surrender our will to His, it takes time and building of habits to do so...
See in a way we all are declaring our independence from God by our own actions of not fully trusting Him, rather it be not trusting in His completed work on the cross, or trusting in His everyday provision and protection. there is great peace to be had when this trust is achieved and maintained.
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
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#8
This op feels like...ouch.
I think the church has gone the same way.
I don't think you clearly see things as they're happening, but see them clearer in retrospect.
It feels like the church has said, we don't want this Holy Spirit to guide us because if He speaks to us we will die. Give us words and doctrines like Israel had to rule over us...
 

HQ

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2014
196
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#9
God's way tends to be inconvenient to mankind because His timetable does not correspond with our own expectations. We tend to look for a quick and easy solution to immediate problems whereas God has a long term view. When we get impatient and go our own way we get burned every time. We always seem to forget to trust Him for the best possible outcome.
 
Jul 12, 2016
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#10
First thing to consider... Jesus did NOT come for ANY other, but for the LOST sheep of ISRAEL. So God sent the ISRAEL Messiah. They were the people that wanter Jesus dead because they did not understand His MADE FREE.

You are a slave. No matter how INDEPENDED you declare yourself. You are a slave to one of two masters. And you CANNOT serve both. You are either a slave to God and His righteosness or you are a slave to sin and Satan.

This is very clear in the bible. Lets just get the Israel sheep on board. The free in Christ is the only free from evil. Even for slaves with earthly masters. It is a holy spiritual FREE.

Jesus said if He makes me free, I will be free indeed. So free that He lives in me.
 

iwant2serve

Senior Member
Apr 12, 2009
513
28
28
#11
This op feels like...ouch.
I think the church has gone the same way.
I don't think you clearly see things as they're happening, but see them clearer in retrospect.
It feels like the church has said, we don't want this Holy Spirit to guide us because if He speaks to us we will die. Give us words and doctrines like Israel had to rule over us...
I can agree with that statement about the church and how it has left the doctrine of the Bible and taken on the doctrine of men. IMO most churches are a religious gathering instead of a coming together to worship our heavenly Father and his Son via the Holy Spirit.
 

iwant2serve

Senior Member
Apr 12, 2009
513
28
28
#12
Either I am missing something or I am being misunderstood by many. I know we all at times move on what we believe is best for us and some on what we believe God has spoken to us. I know Jesus came for to Israel fist to present the Kingdom to them and they missed it. When one declares their independence they have the thinking they I can do this on my own, I made this happen, or it's because I made it happen. As a country we in America do not answer to another country for our government but we choose our leaders.