Enjoyment vs loving of self = sin

[nzlotrfan]

Hopefully this makes sense.

Jesus commands us to love one another. When I am sitting down and watching a TV show for example, I am not loving others but really taking time out for myself only. That is, doing something that satisfies only the self.

So would that not mean that we are constantly sinning? But then what standard should one aim for? Is God ok with those frequent moments when we choose self (like example above) rather than serving someone or loving someone? Or is God not ok with that and ideally wants us to be serving and loving all of the time which, imo, is unrealistic.

I'm just trying to reconcile this thought.. thanks!

 

[TonyJay]

If all you do is watch TV, then yes, I think you may have an issue.

This is an issue of balance is it not?

 

[nzlotrfan]

If all you do is watch TV, then yes, I think you may have an issue.

This is an issue of balance is it not?

But is balance biblical? To further expand on my example, could it not be a sin when you choose to spend money on yourself? Like buying nice clothes, a nice lunch, going to the movies, etc etc.. it's all just for self.

 

[bikerchaz]

Hi, Please bare with me as I try and explain something. You don't have children yet, when you do they are strange creatures. I don't know what relationship you had with your parents, mine was a mixed one, my mother was very loving and protective and my father was at best ignorant and at worst a bully. Now I know Jesus I have a relationship with the creator Father, and He has shown me such love contained within those little people (my children). My two boys are still young and their activities and play interest me very much, I love to watch them play, I also love to watch them rest. there are days when I don't see much of them because they have some game on their pc, but they know I am not far away and I know where they are.

As with us so it is with God. God has shown me what fatherhood is all about, he has done it through my own children and through His sacrifice. You are a child of God and you have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ, you talk to them daily (when you pray in the morning), you eat with them (when given thanks and blessed your food), you discuss your life and things that effect you daily (when you read the word daily) and you sleep with them (When you pray at night). For most of us we pray constantly as if talking to a partner (wife etc) throughout the day, so watching a little telly is neither here or there.

If the Spirit is convicting you of complacency within your relationship with Father then that is another matter and has been said it could be a matter of balance and there could be an issue, but not one that will beat the living daylights out of you, it would be just a prompt, something like I say to my children, I give a gentle prod and say 'come and talk to me, how's your day going?'

Talk to Father, spend time with Jesus, watch a bit of telly, you are a child of God you have a big brother in Jesus, enjoy the life they have given you just as with your children one day you will look at them and feel the joy of life within them, this is in itself a gift from God and I am enjoying every minuet of it, just enjoy yourself in Jesus.

 

[John146]

"I" is always in the middle of sIn.

 

[TonyJay]

But is balance biblical? To further expand on my example, could it not be a sin when you choose to spend money on yourself? Like buying nice clothes, a nice lunch, going to the movies, etc etc.. it's all just for self.

Are you asking a question or making a statement?
I seriously do not want yet another straw-man argument here.

 

[John146]

"I" is always in the middle of sIn.

Take a look at the word "time". Get rid of the i and the me and you're left with a t, or cross. Our time here on earth is precious. We've only got a certain amount of time. It's the most valuable thing we can give to God, our loved ones and the body of Christ. We can use our time for the glory of God or on I,I,I and me,me,me (a little devotion I use for my kids).

 

[Depleted]

Are you asking a question or making a statement?
I seriously do not want yet another straw-man argument here.

New definition of strawman argument? If it's something that hints at even possibly, just maybe, disagreeing with me, it's a strawman argument?

NZ wasn't strawmanning. He was asking a question. You answered with eastern religion beliefs and were surprised at the obvious next question asked.

 

[TonyJay]

New definition of strawman argument? If it's something that hints at even possibly, just maybe, disagreeing with me, it's a strawman argument?

NZ wasn't strawmanning. He was asking a question. You answered with eastern religion beliefs and were surprised at the obvious next question asked.

Ah no!
Read a few more of my posts - I am not into eastern religious beliefs.

 

[Depleted]

Hopefully this makes sense.

Jesus commands us to love one another. When I am sitting down and watching a TV show for example, I am not loving others but really taking time out for myself only. That is, doing something that satisfies only the self.

So would that not mean that we are constantly sinning? But then what standard should one aim for? Is God ok with those frequent moments when we choose self (like example above) rather than serving someone or loving someone? Or is God not ok with that and ideally wants us to be serving and loving all of the time which, imo, is unrealistic.

I'm just trying to reconcile this thought.. thanks!

It makes sense. I think you're missing part of what Jesus said though also. It's not just loving others. It's loving God completely first. Loving others without loving God first will make this thoroughly your effort and so will wear you down quickly. But loving others is a side effect of loving God first.

Yes. Everything we think and do should be Godward and out of love. It shows us the bar we're to reach. It also shows our inadequacies to reach that bar, so our need for God in us. To me, loving God fully and loving others is not sinning. Loving self is.

The only way I know to figure out what it would be like to be what Jesus wants us to be is to check out his life and the lives of those who trusted him. Jesus did need alone time. The 40 days in the wilderness wasn't to confront Satan. It was to commune with his Father. That was his downtime. Satan was the outcome of what happens when we focus on God. (He doesn't like it, so tries to change that in us. Even foolish enough to try it on Jesus.)

Jesus and the disciples were often seen just hanging out when something else came along. Remember his time at Martha and Mary's house? You don't meltdown on your sister like that unless there was a lot of cleanup to do. Everyone was relaxing except one woman.

Where did Mary Magdalene wash Jesus' feet with expensive oils? The gang was relaxing at someone's house. You don't just pull out the expensive perfumed oils during a teaching at the temple or the public square.

Where did Jesus find his disciples when he returned from death? Fishing.

And it wasn't always crowded, since Jesus sent them off in twos.

So, there is downtime too. How we spend it may well be loving and it may be selfish. I think it's where our heads are while we're doing it.

Watching TV? Sometimes it's to spend time with hubby. Sometimes it's to be selfish.

I get what you're asking and have thought the same thing. I haven't reach the bar yet.

 

[Depleted]

Ah no!
Read a few more of my posts - I am not into eastern religious beliefs.

But balance isn't anything taught by God.

 

[TonyJay]

But balance isn't anything taught by God.

If you don't look after yourself you will useless in looking to help others - that includes time for recreation and rest.
Should I change the word "balance" to the phrase "common sense"?

 

[FreeNChrist]

Hopefully this makes sense.

Jesus commands us to love one another. When I am sitting down and watching a TV show for example, I am not loving others but really taking time out for myself only. That is, doing something that satisfies only the self.

So would that not mean that we are constantly sinning? But then what standard should one aim for? Is God ok with those frequent moments when we choose self (like example above) rather than serving someone or loving someone? Or is God not ok with that and ideally wants us to be serving and loving all of the time which, imo, is unrealistic.

I'm just trying to reconcile this thought.. thanks!

Jesus went to parties and enjoyed entertainment. And at other times withdrew Himself completely from others. There is nothing sinful about "me time", unless your whole life is about me time.

 

[tblue]

For me, the 'God consideration' became which shows I watched on TV, not that watching all TV was a spiritual hindrance.

I once had a strong habit of police shows, as well as other 'filler' programs/movies. When I began asking, "In what way is this program spiritually uplifting/edifying?" the need to 'make decisions' became apparent.

It was a process, however. I began to add Christian programming, and sorted through those to find the most helpful. As my thirst increased for Christian TV, it became a preference over other programs. After maybe six months or so, I became willing to let go of NCIS/Law and Order type shows. Please note: By then, it wasn't a *sacrifice* to let them go....my desire for other spiritually useful programs had simply become greater than my desire to hang on to unhelpful content.

Part of the process was asking myself *while watching* cop shows, "What is the 'hook' here? Why am I drawn to these programs?" The answers were several....but none had a spiritual bent, so I knew I was feeding 'the black hole within'.

It was in AA where I learned that denial/abstinence was not the way to go. The object was to 'choose/desire other', not to feel deprived, which often leads to going backwards.

 

[Depleted]

If you don't look after yourself you will useless in looking to help others - that includes time for recreation and rest.
Should I change the word "balance" to the phrase "common sense"?

Never mind.

 

[resurrection33]

Hopefully this makes sense.

Jesus commands us to love one another. When I am sitting down and watching a TV show for example, I am not loving others but really taking time out for myself only. That is, doing something that satisfies only the self.

So would that not mean that we are constantly sinning? But then what standard should one aim for? Is God ok with those frequent moments when we choose self (like example above) rather than serving someone or loving someone? Or is God not ok with that and ideally wants us to be serving and loving all of the time which, imo, is unrealistic.

I'm just trying to reconcile this thought.. thanks!

The Lord provides us with a life, which we are to enjoy. We can enjoy life and love one another simultaneously.

 

[Depleted]

For me, the 'God consideration' became which shows I watched on TV, not that watching all TV was a spiritual hindrance.

I once had a strong habit of police shows, as well as other 'filler' programs/movies. When I began asking, "In what way is this program spiritually uplifting/edifying?" the need to 'make decisions' became apparent.

It was a process, however. I began to add Christian programming, and sorted through those to find the most helpful. As my thirst increased for Christian TV, it became a preference over other programs. After maybe six months or so, I became willing to let go of NCIS/Law and Order type shows. Please note: By then, it wasn't a *sacrifice* to let them go....my desire for other spiritually useful programs had simply become greater than my desire to hang on to unhelpful content.

Part of the process was asking myself *while watching* cop shows, "What is the 'hook' here? Why am I drawn to these programs?" The answers were several....but none had a spiritual bent, so I knew I was feeding 'the black hole within'.

It was in AA where I learned that denial/abstinence was not the way to go. The object was to 'choose/desire other', not to feel deprived, which often leads to going backwards.

I'm not calling you out. I'm trying to understand. Is it just cop shows? Is there any kind of fiction you watch or read that's acceptable within you? My kind of shows are off-the-traditional, like Fringe, or Falling Skies, or Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. My kind of books are middle grade or YA novels, also in alternate realities or sci-fi/fantasy kind of things. I like the idea of desiring other, but I'm not sure if it's fine, within you, to read/watch any fiction, or if it's specifically cop shows that made you feel like you were filling your time with filler.

 

[John146]

TV has been an instrument of the evil one, for sure. It can also be used for good but rarely. Since the invention of the TV, most kids have learned to grow up listening to mindless shows for pure entertainment with some degrading adult authority. They know more about cartoons and reality shows than the word of God.