Is the Passover and other bread and wine ceremonies same our different?

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Drcraig1

Guest
#1
Many claim to be Christians, but what is the definition of a Christian? It's a follower of Christ. So if we truly follow Christ, shouldn't we follow his examples that are to lead is to the kingdom of heaven?

Revelation: 22. 18. I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

If we add or subtract, we cannot receive eternal life. So what about the Passover? In order to understand about this clearly let's see about the covenants that God mentioned in the book of Jeremiah.

Jeremiah: 31. 31. "The days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 32. It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them, " declares the Lord. 33. "This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the Lord. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34. No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the Lord. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

In order to understand about the new covenant, we must see about the old covenant. This old covenant is what led the Israelites out of Egypt.

Exodus: 12. 10. Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it. 11. This is how you are to eat it: with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in your hand. Eat it in haste; it is the Lord's Passover. 12. "On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the Lord. 13. The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt. 14. "This is a day you are to commemorate; for the generations to come you shall celebrate it as a festival to the Lord—a lasting ordinance.
On the 14th day of the first month, acoording to the sacred calendar, was the night God gave the Israelites instructions on how to make this last plague pass over God's people. They had to eat the flesh of the lamb and put the blood around the door to be protected.

So since that was the old covenant God made was the Passover, which is suppose to be kept as an lasting ordinance. Then what's the new covenant that will make God never remember our sins anymore?

Matthew: 26. 26. While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body." 27. Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

The reality of the flesh and blood is actually bread and wine. The reality of the lamb that was sacrificed on the night of the Passover is actually Christ, who is known as the Lamb also. So let's see what they were eating that night.

Matthew: 26. 17. On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?" 18. He replied, "Go into the city to a certain man and tell him, 'The Teacher says: My appointed time is near. I am going to celebrate the Passover with my disciples at your house.'" 19. So the disciples did as Jesus had directed them and prepared the Passover.

They ate the Passover. So let's confirm again that this is the New covenant God mentioned to Jeremiah in the old testament.

Luke: 22. 19. And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me." 20. In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

So many Christians say, we don't have to do the Passover, so let's see if the apostles kept Passover after Jesus ascended to heaven.

1 Corinthians: 11. 23. For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24. and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me." 25. In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me." 26. For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. 27. So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.

What was the night the Lord was betrayed? It was the night of the Passover. So if we don't keep God's covenant can we say we are doing God's will? No. If you subtract Passover and add any other bread and wine ceremony, can you say it has the same promise as the Passover?
That is up to your discernment. That's why the bible says:

Matthew: 7. 21. "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' 23. Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

So should we our should we not keep Passover?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
#2
I suspect you didn't read my comment on your previous thread. Your logic is faulty because you are trying to prove each point with a single supporting verse, which is taken out of context from other verses on the subject. You take an element of the quoted verse, conclude that it says something very specific and far-reaching, and then make a tenuous connection to another issue and repeat the process. This is how bad doctrine comes about.

The Old Covenant is far more than simply the blood of lambs spread on doorposts. The New Covenant is far more than simply bread and wine. If you want to spread blood on your door posts, be my guest. I suspect your neighbours might have an issue with it as well (especially if you live in an apartment).

Please, if you want to teach, do your homework thoroughly first, and form cogent, well-supported arguments rather than single-verse chains with rather weak links. Don't violate the major teachings of Scripture as you examine the minor issues. Also, as this is a discussion forum and not a lecture forum, you may want to invite discussion rather than merely support for your conclusions.
 
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Drcraig1

Guest
#3
Can you show me versus supporting that this is false teaching?
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#4
Many claim to be Christians, but what is the definition of a Christian? It's a follower of Christ. So if we truly follow Christ, shouldn't we follow his examples that are to lead is to the kingdom of heaven?

Revelation: 22. 18. I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

If we add or subtract, we cannot receive eternal life. So what about the Passover? In order to understand about this clearly let's see about the covenants that God mentioned in the book of Jeremiah.

Jeremiah: 31. 31. "The days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 32. It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them, " declares the Lord. 33. "This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the Lord. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34. No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the Lord. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

In order to understand about the new covenant, we must see about the old covenant. This old covenant is what led the Israelites out of Egypt.

Exodus: 12. 10. Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it. 11. This is how you are to eat it: with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in your hand. Eat it in haste; it is the Lord's Passover. 12. "On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the Lord. 13. The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt. 14. "This is a day you are to commemorate; for the generations to come you shall celebrate it as a festival to the Lord—a lasting ordinance.
On the 14th day of the first month, acoording to the sacred calendar, was the night God gave the Israelites instructions on how to make this last plague pass over God's people. They had to eat the flesh of the lamb and put the blood around the door to be protected.

So since that was the old covenant God made was the Passover, which is suppose to be kept as an lasting ordinance. Then what's the new covenant that will make God never remember our sins anymore?

Matthew: 26. 26. While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body." 27. Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

The reality of the flesh and blood is actually bread and wine. The reality of the lamb that was sacrificed on the night of the Passover is actually Christ, who is known as the Lamb also. So let's see what they were eating that night.

Matthew: 26. 17. On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?" 18. He replied, "Go into the city to a certain man and tell him, 'The Teacher says: My appointed time is near. I am going to celebrate the Passover with my disciples at your house.'" 19. So the disciples did as Jesus had directed them and prepared the Passover.

They ate the Passover. So let's confirm again that this is the New covenant God mentioned to Jeremiah in the old testament.

Luke: 22. 19. And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me." 20. In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

So many Christians say, we don't have to do the Passover, so let's see if the apostles kept Passover after Jesus ascended to heaven.

1 Corinthians: 11. 23. For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24. and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me." 25. In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me." 26. For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. 27. So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.

What was the night the Lord was betrayed? It was the night of the Passover. So if we don't keep God's covenant can we say we are doing God's will? No. If you subtract Passover and add any other bread and wine ceremony, can you say it has the same promise as the Passover?
That is up to your discernment. That's why the bible says:

Matthew: 7. 21. "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' 23. Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

So should we our should we not keep Passover?
Why did you change the meaning of Rev 22:18-19 to try and make it sound like it is talking about the Bible?
 
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Drcraig1

Guest
#5
It is talking about the bible. The bible is a book of prophecy. 2000 years ago when John wrote prophecy it was transcribed on a scroll. That's why it's described as a scroll of prophecy. That's why when Jesus preached in the synogog he read off of a scroll.

Luke: 4. 16. He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read, 17. and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
 
Jan 15, 2011
736
27
28
#6
Revelation 22:18-19 does specifically relate to the book of Revelation, but can also have a broader application to the entirety of scripture. Case in point, those words are also mentioned in the OT.

Drcraig1 here's a good scripture for your discussion:

1 Corinthians 5:6-8
6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.[c] 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.