The Saviour of the world

[Yahshua]

A lot of people claim to have the Messiah living within, but their actions and words violate God's commandments. It will not work this way. God is not the author of confusion. If Christ is within a person, and making the choices, then their physical life will be very similar to His. Easy believism is when people claim to be Christian but living like the rest of the world. They claim they love God, but it just isn't showing. This is when it is said, "depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness".

I always found it a strange notion to call the practice of obeying God's law "lawlessness". In any other realm of thinking (our own society's laws for instance), no one would have difficulty understanding how incorrect this line of thinking is.

It's such a strong delusion like Paul prophesied in Thessalonians; a delusion brought on by misunderstanding Paul's own writings like Peter warned would happen without having a firm grasp of the basics of God's truth. Unfortunately, most of our education regarding the things of God start at Matthew 1 instead of Genesis 1.

Paul says the law is our schoolmaster which *leads* us to Christ, yet if everyone is taught to skip "elementary school" on the very first day of "enrollment", how can they be sure they're being led to the correct Christ and not another christ? They're not following the schoolmaster to get to him.

Regardless...it's prophesied that God himself sent this strong delusion, so there's nothing we can do to change it actually. We simply must prey and plead that God decides to open eyes and reveal the truth one day soon.

 

[Adstar]

On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Matthew 7:22-23 (ESV2011, MBM)

NOTE: How the ones that Jesus said will be rejected are trying to Justify Themselves before Him through their works!!!!

I bet they where all preached to by preachers who told them they had to do works to be saved or to maintain their own salvation...

 

[Adstar]

it seems humans have been saved except those who reject or deny the salvation freely offered - wincam

Yes.. Salvation is 100% dependent on people believing Jesus and trusting 100% in what He did to secure their salvation..

 

[Adstar]

it is not at all to simply believe - according to Jesus Christ it is simply simply very difficult if not well nigh impossible for an adult to simply simply believe - wincam

That's why it is the job of the Words of God,, His message to Move a person into belief... Many people first love the message of Jesus before they actually believe Jesus exists.. It is a big mistake to think they one must first be convinced of the existence of Jesus before they can then go on to consider the message of Jesus.. to use an old term of expression that's putting the cart before the horse..

 

[Grandpa]

I always found it a strange notion to call the practice of obeying God's law "lawlessness". In any other realm of thinking (our own society's laws for instance), no one would have difficulty understanding how incorrect this line of thinking is.

It's such a strong delusion like Paul prophesied in Thessalonians; a delusion brought on by misunderstanding Paul's own writings like Peter warned would happen without having a firm grasp of the basics of God's truth. Unfortunately, most of our education regarding the things of God start at Matthew 1 instead of Genesis 1.

Paul says the law is our schoolmaster which *leads* us to Christ, yet if everyone is taught to skip "elementary school" on the very first day of "enrollment", how can they be sure they're being led to the correct Christ and not another christ? They're not following the schoolmaster to get to him.

Regardless...it's prophesied that God himself sent this strong delusion, so there's nothing we can do to change it actually. We simply must prey and plead that God decides to open eyes and reveal the truth one day soon.

If you did obey Gods Law it wouldn't be lawlessness.

Just because you think you are following Gods Law does not mean that you are.

It is because you are following a law that you can't obey is why you are lawless. You constantly break it. That's what makes you lawless.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

 

[FreeNChrist]

They're not following the schoolmaster to get to him.

Because we have already 'got to Him'.

"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." Gal 3:24-25

 

[Yahshua]

If you did obey Gods Law it wouldn't be lawlessness.

Just because you think you are following Gods Law does not mean that you are.

It is because you are following a law that you can't obey is why you are lawless. You constantly break it. That's what makes you lawless.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Incorrect sir. What makes you lawless isn't that you keep *breaking* the law. That makes you a "law-breaker" in constant need of God's mercy, grace and forgiveness.

No, what makes one lawless is living a life believing you don't *need* the law *at all*; "without the law". Lacking-law. Law-less. The word explains itself.

Christ will say to those people who practice law-LESS-ness, "Get away from me. I don't know you." But to law-BREAKERS who repent he forgives because they at least acknowledge its necessity in their lives and how they're wrong to break it (i.e. they acknowledge they're "sinners").

God’s law isn't the problem. It's not what failed. Man failed/fails. And not until heaven and earth passes away will it be removed. So the notion that the law isn't needed anymore in one's life is, in fact, lawlessness.

Because we have already 'got to Him'.

"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." Gal 3:24-25

"...to bring us unto Christ.."

How does one "already" get to Christ if the content that specifically distinguishes the true Christ from any false ones is avoided from the very beginning? Also, how is true understanding of Christ's work achieved if the content that explains it isn't accepted?

Remember, anyone who doesn't come in "through the gate", but another way, is a robber and a thief. We can't "already" get to him. We first must acknowledge how we are lawbreakers, necessitating understanding God's law.

 

[Grandpa]

Incorrect sir. What makes you lawless isn't that you keep *breaking* the law. That makes you a "law-breaker" in constant need of God's mercy, grace and forgiveness.

No, what makes one lawless is living a life believing you don't *need* the law *at all*; "without the law". Lacking-law. Law-less. The word explains itself.

Christ will say to those people who practice law-LESS-ness, "Get away from me. I don't know you." But to law-BREAKERS who repent he forgives because they at least acknowledge its necessity in their lives and how they're wrong to break it (i.e. they acknowledge they're "sinners").

God’s law isn't the problem. It's not what failed. Man failed/fails. And not until heaven and earth passes away will it be removed. So the notion that the law isn't needed anymore in one's life is, in fact, lawlessness.



"...to bring us unto Christ.."

How does one "already" get to Christ if the content that specifically distinguishes the true Christ from any false ones is avoided from the very beginning? Also, how is true understanding of Christ's work achieved if the content that explains it isn't accepted?

Remember, anyone who doesn't come in "through the gate", but another way, is a robber and a thief. We can't "already" get to him. We first must acknowledge how we are lawbreakers, necessitating understanding God's law.

So a person robs a bank.

But he knows that robbing a bank is against the law.

So he's not lawless. Because, dang it, he's sorry.

So then the next time he robs a different bank. But in his mind, he's not lawless. Because, once again, he's sorry.


But the Christian, who tells you that he's dead to the law, doesn't rob any banks. The Christian doesn't really care about banks that much.

So in your little depiction the Christian is lawless because he has no need for the law, but the guy robbing banks is following the right road... Kind of upside down to me. But everyone is entitled to their opinions, I suppose.

 

[disciplemike]

NOTE: How the ones that Jesus said will be rejected are trying to Justify Themselves before Him through their works!!!!

I bet they where all preached to by preachers who told them they had to do works to be saved or to maintain their own salvation...

you are brainwashed into reading that upside down.

He does not say, depart from me you who are trying to keep the law.
No, no, no.

Read it like it is written neighbor.

 

[Yahshua]

So a person robs a bank.

But he knows that robbing a bank is against the law.

So he's not lawless. Because, dang it, he's sorry.

So then the next time he robs a different bank. But in his mind, he's not lawless. Because, once again, he's sorry.


But the Christian, who tells you that he's dead to the law, doesn't rob any banks. The Christian doesn't really care about banks that much.

So in your little depiction the Christian is lawless because he has no need for the law, but the guy robbing banks is following the right road... Kind of upside down to me. But everyone is entitled to their opinions, I suppose.

I like the condescension. Mighty "christian" of you. But to your example...

With regard to your example, you're not characterizing what "lawless" people actually say. The Christian you've depicted actually fulfills God's prophecy of having the law within him to not want to rob a bank. The law of "do not steal" is written inside and he follows it perfectly through the power of Christ.

But to the lawless ones; they do not say "I am dead to the law thus I don't steal". They actually say, "The law is insufficient so if I even try *NOT* to steal I've not accepting that all my past and FUTURE thefts are all cover by my insurance plan call 'Christ'; thefts I'm BOUND to do constantly anyhow because I can't help myself so I don't worry about it. My insurance plan covers it all."

But no the robber in your example isn't law-LESS, he's specifically a law-BREAKER; a law-TRANSGRESSOR.

And I'd wager that the Messiah would say to that robber (if he's contrite and truly sorry) exactly what he said he would say to the lowly publican who beat upon his chest saying "please forgive me, a sinner". Christ said that man would be justified before the other one who prided himself on not being a sinner, especially before the particular Christian you've depicted. The robber's knowledge of the law brings that robber to his knees at the feet of Christ in submission else he wouldn't apologize constantly (unless you're being sarcastic about him being sorry?).

Paul even said of himself that the sin he commits is not himself but sin in his flesh; that he doesn't desire to do it (Romans 7:16-17). So the robber who truly doesn't want to rob anymore but who still does would fit this category.

16 And if I do what I do not desire, I admit that the Law is good.

17 In that case, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.

 

[FreeNChrist]

"...to bring us unto Christ.."

How does one "already" get to Christ if the content that specifically distinguishes the true Christ from any false ones is avoided from the very beginning? Also, how is true understanding of Christ's work achieved if the content that explains it isn't accepted?

Remember, anyone who doesn't come in "through the gate", but another way, is a robber and a thief. We can't "already" get to him. We first must acknowledge how we are lawbreakers, necessitating understanding God's law.

........Huh?

 

[Yahshua]

........Huh?

Don't worry about it.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Don't worry about it.

....I wasn't.

 

[Yahshua]

....I wasn't.

Then why'd you ask "huh"? Seems if you didn't care to know you'd have just left it alone?

 

[Adstar]

you are brainwashed into reading that upside down.

He does not say, depart from me you who are trying to keep the law.
No, no, no.

Read it like it is written neighbor.

The Laws of our Lord Jesus Christ is to Love the Lord they God and to love they neighbour as thyself and to trust in the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of ones sins.. All the Law as you call the Law [OT Torah law] does is reveal to all men that they are sinners needing the Atonement of the Messiah Jesus Christ... You are preaching OT Torah law doing as a way for Christians to be saved through self justification.. But you and those like you break the Torah Law every day and thus since you rely on OT Torah law doing for salvation you will be judged as Lawless by God.. Those who embrace the Law of Justification through Faith in What Jesus said and did will be deemed righteous in spirit ( Not righteous in flesh because this sinfull flesh shall be cast away upon the day of reasurection) and they will be accounted worthy to enter into eternal life with God..

 

[disciplemike]

You are preaching OT Torah law doing as a way for Christians to be saved through self justification..

Ok, lying is not for Christians.
Find any post where I say keeping the law is necessary for salvation.
Why do you have to lie, or assume? Just be fair and don't assign things to me I did not say.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Find any post where I say keeping the law is necessary for salvation.

Obedience to the word of God is not legalistic.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Then why'd you ask "huh"?

Not cause I was worried.

 

[Adstar]

Ok, lying is not for Christians.
Find any post where I say keeping the law is necessary for salvation.
Why do you have to lie, or assume? Just be fair and don't assign things to me I did not say.

So you never say that Christians must keep the law?

 

[Grandpa]

I like the condescension. Mighty "christian" of you. But to your example...

With regard to your example, you're not characterizing what "lawless" people actually say. The Christian you've depicted actually fulfills God's prophecy of having the law within him to not want to rob a bank. The law of "do not steal" is written inside and he follows it perfectly through the power of Christ.

But to the lawless ones; they do not say "I am dead to the law thus I don't steal". They actually say, "The law is insufficient so if I even try *NOT* to steal I've not accepting that all my past and FUTURE thefts are all cover by my insurance plan call 'Christ'; thefts I'm BOUND to do constantly anyhow because I can't help myself so I don't worry about it. My insurance plan covers it all."

But no the robber in your example isn't law-LESS, he's specifically a law-BREAKER; a law-TRANSGRESSOR.

And I'd wager that the Messiah would say to that robber (if he's contrite and truly sorry) exactly what he said he would say to the lowly publican who beat upon his chest saying "please forgive me, a sinner". Christ said that man would be justified before the other one who prided himself on not being a sinner, especially before the particular Christian you've depicted. The robber's knowledge of the law brings that robber to his knees at the feet of Christ in submission else he wouldn't apologize constantly (unless you're being sarcastic about him being sorry?).

Paul even said of himself that the sin he commits is not himself but sin in his flesh; that he doesn't desire to do it (Romans 7:16-17). So the robber who truly doesn't want to rob anymore but who still does would fit this category.

16 And if I do what I do not desire, I admit that the Law is good.

17 In that case, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.

You pretty much missed the whole point of who was the lawless one and who wasn't.

But legalists do that for some reason. They are all about law until you tell them how it applies to them as well. Then all of a sudden they preach grace. At least for a second while the law is applying to them.

I wonder why you can't see that the one who breaks the law is lawless? I suppose you probably do, it just upsets your vain jangling. Not very much, but a little.

You know why its ok to apply bible verses to yourself in the same manner you try to apply them to others? Its because we are all in the same boat. We are all transgressors of Gods Perfect Law. Whether meaning to or not, whether good intentioned or not, makes little difference.