Apostle Paul On Tongues In 1 Corinthians
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You mean the 'cloven' tongue that manifested on Pentecost?? Absolutely not, the true cloven tongue has not ever ceased!
But there's a difference between the cloven tongue spoken on Pentecost which everyone present understood, compared to a gibberish speech which is not understood. You'd think when you come here to this thread you might read a little and understand my position without having to ask that question. See what I wrote previously.
But there's a difference between the cloven tongue spoken on Pentecost which everyone present understood, compared to a gibberish speech which is not understood. You'd think when you come here to this thread you might read a little and understand my position without having to ask that question. See what I wrote previously.
1 Corinthians 14
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Tongues are a sign to the Jews that the Gentiles have received the promise of the Holy Spirit, but the Jews would still not believe. There would come a point when the Jews were cut off all together and so would the sign gifts. No more going to the Jew first, but now all have the same opportunity through faith and not by sight. No more signs needed, just faith.
Acts 28
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Tongues are a sign to the Jews that the Gentiles have received the promise of the Holy Spirit, but the Jews would still not believe. There would come a point when the Jews were cut off all together and so would the sign gifts. No more going to the Jew first, but now all have the same opportunity through faith and not by sight. No more signs needed, just faith.
Acts 28
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
I just made a thread on this, and it addresses some of the false notions that tongues must be a language of the native people present so as to minister to them. I'll just share the OP.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...t-tongues-contrary-pentecost.html#post2737159
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...t-tongues-contrary-pentecost.html#post2737159
I don't see it anywhere and of course they were in a different covenant then the New Covenant. They were not sealed with the Holy Spirit and have become a new creation either.
They never even heard the name of Jesus before in order to experience this new birth in Christ. They were not there when the Holy Spirit came to dwell permanently in people that believed in Christ.
They never even heard the name of Jesus before in order to experience this new birth in Christ. They were not there when the Holy Spirit came to dwell permanently in people that believed in Christ.
U
Yes indeed it is not only a good try, it is correct.
I am not saying the translation had to be different however the understanding of the word in context is different.
You may ask why? Well......
Because spirit in English can also mean breath although it is now obsolete, not in use anymore since no one or barely anyone reads classic literature.
For example
Spenser
The mild air, with season moderate, / Gently attempered, and disposed so well, / That still it breathed forth sweet spirit.
If one were to study this in context one would understand that Spenser was using the word spirit but it means breath.
Therefore in Paul’s words he is saying...... we see that anyone who speaks in a different language will not be comprehended by those who hear it. Instead, they will find the words to be a mystery. A mystery is simply something unknown and which cannot be grasped without an explanation of the matter.
From there Paul gives very strict guidelines in the verses ahead for the speaking of tongues.
And he does say not to forbid speaking in tongues (a language) because it was necessary at that time in that church for understanding and learning of the gospel of Jesus the Christ.
I am not saying the translation had to be different however the understanding of the word in context is different.
You may ask why? Well......
Because spirit in English can also mean breath although it is now obsolete, not in use anymore since no one or barely anyone reads classic literature.
For example
Spenser
The mild air, with season moderate, / Gently attempered, and disposed so well, / That still it breathed forth sweet spirit.
If one were to study this in context one would understand that Spenser was using the word spirit but it means breath.
Therefore in Paul’s words he is saying...... we see that anyone who speaks in a different language will not be comprehended by those who hear it. Instead, they will find the words to be a mystery. A mystery is simply something unknown and which cannot be grasped without an explanation of the matter.
From there Paul gives very strict guidelines in the verses ahead for the speaking of tongues.
And he does say not to forbid speaking in tongues (a language) because it was necessary at that time in that church for understanding and learning of the gospel of Jesus the Christ.
Tongues is not mimicking sounds like a Parrot. It has a clear message coming from God with a spirtual meaning called prophecy .This is when he was still bringing new prophecy before he sealed up the possibility of another word.. Tongues is not a work of men. God can put his word in the mouth of a creature to perform the good pleasures of His will. Remember he performs that which is appointed to us.
Num 22:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
Would that above be a gift of tongues that we could attribute to the ass showing outwardly it has the Holy Spirit? What does a ass/donkey represent throughout the scriptures?
He is not served with human hand as earthen vessels .We in our human vessel as new creatures in Christ have the authority of God in us but it is never to be assumed of us .
We walk by faith the unseen not after experiences in these bodies as that seen.
And what would be the purpose of giving us a mystery without any understanding and call it a gift?
Num 22:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
Would that above be a gift of tongues that we could attribute to the ass showing outwardly it has the Holy Spirit? What does a ass/donkey represent throughout the scriptures?
He is not served with human hand as earthen vessels .We in our human vessel as new creatures in Christ have the authority of God in us but it is never to be assumed of us .
We walk by faith the unseen not after experiences in these bodies as that seen.
And what would be the purpose of giving us a mystery without any understanding and call it a gift?
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Yes indeed it is not only a good try, it is correct.
I am not saying the translation had to be different however the understanding of the word in context is different.
You may ask why? Well......
Because spirit in English can also mean breath although it is now obsolete, not in use anymore since no one or barely anyone reads classic literature.
For example
Spenser
The mild air, with season moderate, / Gently attempered, and disposed so well, / That still it breathed forth sweet spirit.
If one were to study this in context one would understand that Spenser was using the word spirit but it means breath.
Therefore in Paul’s words he is saying...... we see that anyone who speaks in a different language will not be comprehended by those who hear it. Instead, they will find the words to be a mystery. A mystery is simply something unknown and which cannot be grasped without an explanation of the matter.
From there Paul gives very strict guidelines in the verses ahead for the speaking of tongues.
And he does say not to forbid speaking in tongues (a language) because it was necessary at that time in that church for understanding and learning of the gospel of Jesus the Christ.
I am not saying the translation had to be different however the understanding of the word in context is different.
You may ask why? Well......
Because spirit in English can also mean breath although it is now obsolete, not in use anymore since no one or barely anyone reads classic literature.
For example
Spenser
The mild air, with season moderate, / Gently attempered, and disposed so well, / That still it breathed forth sweet spirit.
If one were to study this in context one would understand that Spenser was using the word spirit but it means breath.
Therefore in Paul’s words he is saying...... we see that anyone who speaks in a different language will not be comprehended by those who hear it. Instead, they will find the words to be a mystery. A mystery is simply something unknown and which cannot be grasped without an explanation of the matter.
From there Paul gives very strict guidelines in the verses ahead for the speaking of tongues.
And he does say not to forbid speaking in tongues (a language) because it was necessary at that time in that church for understanding and learning of the gospel of Jesus the Christ.
1) Don't have a clue who Spenser is and I don't believe he knows anything about speaking in tongues which is a spiritual reality - not to be grasped with the natural mind.
2) the mysteries are not spoken to men - they are being spoken to God. 1 Cor. 14:2
Remember there are 2 sides to tongues -
1) the devotional one where our spirit speaks to God privately and others are not involved. ( The devotional one is active by our will. 1Cor 14:14-15. )
2) then the public side where combined with interpretation. ( The public side with interpretation is done as the Holy Spirit wills. 1 Cor. 12:11 )
When I hear people saying that there are no speaking in tongues today supernaturally - it has the very same affect on me as if atheists say to me that Jesus Christ is not real and it is just something that people made up. I know without a doubt that both groups are dead wrong.
Praying in the spirit in tongues is as natural to me as breathing and talking to my Lord is and no amount of natural reasoning to dismiss either of them will hold any water with me and for the over 600 million other people that believe in speaking in tongues that are in the world. This group is the fastest growing group of believers on the earth.
I really encourage others to inquire of the Lord about this. He has a great gift for all of us to be able to pray with our spirit to our Father and Lord and it will bring untold blessings in our lives.
Let it be established the fact that tongues is not an ‘angelic language”, a “gibberish language” or a “babble sound” that no one on earth can understand. Yes this refers only to the other foreign language unknown to the Corinthian Church. The gift of tongue and the interpreter is needed during the apostolic times so that not only the church members but visitors alike with different language will benefit or edified. The added word "unkown" in the KJV does not really confuse the text but rather clarifies what type of tongue (language) Paul is speaking about. Yes there was the gift of tongue but no longer of today.
God bless
God bless
U
Okay that is too funny.....
My point was that even in English the word spirit can mean breath, at least it used to before it fell from usage in that way. The stanza was just to show where the word spirit is used actually meant breath, that is all. I quoted Spencer as proof of the use of the word and it different meanings in English too and to show context gives the meaning.
Just like spirits means a certain alcohol in English, certainly when one reads spirits one knows when it means alcohol and not ghosts (or vice versa) because of the context.
Poor old dead Edmund Spenser nobody knows him anymore.
They are mysteries because no understands because it is a foreign language however God still understands, but the whole point is that the words that are being spoken should be understood by the people present thus the need for an interpreter otherwise stay silent.
I will get on to the rest of what you state maybe...I hope.
Okay that is too funny.....
My point was that even in English the word spirit can mean breath, at least it used to before it fell from usage in that way. The stanza was just to show where the word spirit is used actually meant breath, that is all. I quoted Spencer as proof of the use of the word and it different meanings in English too and to show context gives the meaning.
Just like spirits means a certain alcohol in English, certainly when one reads spirits one knows when it means alcohol and not ghosts (or vice versa) because of the context.
Poor old dead Edmund Spenser nobody knows him anymore.
They are mysteries because no understands because it is a foreign language however God still understands, but the whole point is that the words that are being spoken should be understood by the people present thus the need for an interpreter otherwise stay silent.
I will get on to the rest of what you state maybe...I hope.
My point was that even in English the word spirit can mean breath, at least it used to before it fell from usage in that way. The stanza was just to show where the word spirit is used actually meant breath, that is all. I quoted Spencer as proof of the use of the word and it different meanings in English too and to show context gives the meaning.
Just like spirits means a certain alcohol in English, certainly when one reads spirits one knows when it means alcohol and not ghosts (or vice versa) because of the context.
Poor old dead Edmund Spenser nobody knows him anymore.
They are mysteries because no understands because it is a foreign language however God still understands, but the whole point is that the words that are being spoken should be understood by the people present thus the need for an interpreter otherwise stay silent.
I will get on to the rest of what you state maybe...I hope.
...I don't use our modern use of a word to define what the biblical application of that word is. I go to the scriptures themselves to get the meaning of the word.Not stay silent in the sense of not making any sound at all. Paul still says to speak to yourself and to God in tongues if there is no one that has the gift of interpretation of tongues. 1 Cor. 14:28
Anyway...I'm off to bed. Sleep well! I encourage you to inquire of the Lord about this. He is no respecter of persons and will also reveal the truth of the blessing of praying with our spirit to our Lord and Father.
U
Excellent verse... but poorly quoted... where is this from?
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
NIV
The transiency of all charisms contrasted with the permanency and supremacy of Love, 1 Corinthians 13:8-13.
The charisms—prophecies, tongues, knowledge—are all provisional and partial; soon to be merged in the perfect and the eternal.
Whedon's Bible Commentary
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
NIV
The transiency of all charisms contrasted with the permanency and supremacy of Love, 1 Corinthians 13:8-13.
The charisms—prophecies, tongues, knowledge—are all provisional and partial; soon to be merged in the perfect and the eternal.
Whedon's Bible Commentary