Homosexuality! Love the person not the sin!

[1234Canuck]

All sin is equal and we all fall short of the glory of God! We all sin but some sins are more visual then others and bring on more judgement from people including the church! We are not to be the judge of anything but we are called to love! People who struggle with homosexuality should not feel condemned to walk through the door of a church but should feel loved and supported as they have to struggle with such a difficult battle. We should be the ones helping them walk through the struggle. We don't have to support their actions but we can help them to stand up against their sin and find peace in the arms of God! God is love! So love!

 

[49]

Yep.......

 

[Radius]

But many Christians nowadays are becoming accepting of the lifestyle and using "science" to explain it away, i.e. they were born that way. Never become that complacent or condone it. Love the person, of course!

 

[allaboutlove]

I agree 100%. We will never reach anybody struggling with homosexuality by continueing to tell then its a sin or a abomination.... They already know what we think about it and they disagree.. The only way we can reach then is by showing them the greatness of Gods love and the effect it has on our lives.... Matthew 5:16 says to let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works an glorify your father which are in heaven.... This is how to reach them not by telling them how wrong an sinful they are.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

All sin is equal and we all fall short of the glory of God! We all sin but some sins are more visual then others and bring on more judgement from people including the church! We are not to be the judge of anything but we are called to love! People who struggle with homosexuality should not feel condemned to walk through the door of a church but should feel loved and supported as they have to struggle with such a difficult battle. We should be the ones helping them walk through the struggle. We don't have to support their actions but we can help them to stand up against their sin and find peace in the arms of God! God is love! So love!

Well, I guess I'll be the first to not totally agree. ::shrug::

All sin is equal. Stealing a million dollars is worse than stealing a buck. Punching a person is not as bad as murdering a person. Sin isn't all "equally bad". All sin is bad, but not all equally bad.

Nonetheless, sin stinks. Reminds me of dumpsters. One stinks bad and the next is unbearable.

What if all sins were equally bad? Then we should get equally angry anytime we are offended by sin...regardless of what it is. Also, the punishment in the legal system should be the same for all crimes, regardless of what the crime is.

For those who wish to remind me that we are to submit to government authority(Romans 13), you should be doing everything you can to change the law so that all crimes/sins are treated equally.

we all fall short of the glory of God! True.

We all sin but some sins are more visual then others and bring on more judgement from people including the church! Rightly so! If ya punch me in the nose the church ought to make a fuss about it. If you murder me, the church should be appalled by it. Murdering me is worse than punching me.

We are not to be the judge of anything but we are called to love! Depends on how you are defining "judge". Are we to judge a person's eternal destiny? No. Should we tell people what Scripture says about sin and the eternal consequences of sin? YES!

Anyone ever notice, as s/he reads Scripture, that Scripture constantly judges? The Christian Bible is very much a book of judging actions and intent. Somehow, though, we can't use that to judge the actions/deeds of ourselves and others? The writers of Scripture were inspired by the Holy Spirit to make judgement calls but we can't judge?

we are called to love! Parents judge the actions of their children and correct them when necessary. That's what a loving parent does. Teach and guide the child.

People who struggle with homosexuality should not feel condemned to walk through the door of a church but should feel loved and supported as they have to struggle with such a difficult battle. True! Your statement here, by the way, seems to suggest something wrong about homosexuality. Are you judging and determining it to be a sin?

We don't have to support their actions but we can help them to stand up against their sin and find peace in the arms of God! God is love! So love! True. Interestingly, you are almost reversing your earlier statement. It's as though you're writing that we can disagree and judge their actions/lifestyle to be wrong, though we should still be willing to help them through their struggle.

 

[p_rehbein]

Well, I guess I'll be the first to not totally agree. ::shrug::

All sin is equal. Stealing a million dollars is worse than stealing a buck. Punching a person is not as bad as murdering a person. Sin isn't all "equally bad". All sin is bad, but not all equally bad.

Nonetheless, sin stinks. Reminds me of dumpsters. One stinks bad and the next is unbearable.

What if all sins were equally bad? Then we should get equally angry anytime we are offended by sin...regardless of what it is. Also, the punishment in the legal system should be the same for all crimes, regardless of what the crime is.

For those who wish to remind me that we are to submit to government authority(Romans 13), you should be doing everything you can to change the law so that all crimes/sins are treated equally.

we all fall short of the glory of God! True.

We all sin but some sins are more visual then others and bring on more judgement from people including the church! Rightly so! If ya punch me in the nose the church ought to make a fuss about it. If you murder me, the church should be appalled by it. Murdering me is worse than punching me.

We are not to be the judge of anything but we are called to love! Depends on how you are defining "judge". Are we to judge a person's eternal destiny? No. Should we tell people what Scripture says about sin and the eternal consequences of sin? YES!

Anyone ever notice, as s/he reads Scripture, that Scripture constantly judges? The Christian Bible is very much a book of judging actions and intent. Somehow, though, we can't use that to judge the actions/deeds of ourselves and others? The writers of Scripture were inspired by the Holy Spirit to make judgement calls but we can't judge?

we are called to love! Parents judge the actions of their children and correct them when necessary. That's what a loving parent does. Teach and guide the child.

People who struggle with homosexuality should not feel condemned to walk through the door of a church but should feel loved and supported as they have to struggle with such a difficult battle. True! Your statement here, by the way, seems to suggest something wrong about homosexuality. Are you judging and determining it to be a sin?

We don't have to support their actions but we can help them to stand up against their sin and find peace in the arms of God! God is love! So love! True. Interestingly, you are almost reversing your earlier statement. It's as though you're writing that we can disagree and judge their actions/lifestyle to be wrong, though we should still be willing to help them through their struggle.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

........This...........

 

[1234Canuck]

One of the biggest mistakes of some Christians in the church is to think that we are not the same as the people who are not Christian. That we are more privileged. We would all go to hell if Jesus didn't save us. That's why we are to go and make disciples of all nations. That doesn't exclude people with certain life difficulties or sin. I would assume that if your getting punched in church because of your faith that the church should celebrate not retaliate. Did Jesus retaliate? I don't think so! He instead saved us from certain death. The Bible is clear about sexuality immortality, adultery and homosexuality. Anything that is outside of God's will is a sin. I am not judging. If you did drugs after you went to church that doesn't me I won't love you as a person. I definitely won't support your hobbies. That's not judgement that's love. If you come to church I would think you want to follow God's principles. If that's the case then as a part of your family in Christ I would support you as you try to stop the drug habit. There's no judgement just love!

 

[pottersclay]

I have found in most of these threads that the saints try to do the work of the holy spirit. That ends up as sloppy agape. The first act of Christian love is the preaching of the gospel. In that the power of the word of God is unleashed.
Convicting the troubled heart. As we know in scripture some men love darkness and do not want to come to the light.
The holy spirit has that discernment and will do his work through the gospel message.
Now confronting one with the truth is not pointing out the sin but giving hope to those that have none. Giving directions to those who are lost, giving sight to the blind, and healing to the sick. That my friend is the power of the gospel. The work of the holy spirit, delivered by a willing vessel. That is the love we share.
Sin needs no understanding, it's been dealt with on the cross and put as far as the east is from the west praise God.
We all are free to choose but we are not free from the consequences of our choice.

 

[Adstar]

All sin is equal and we all fall short of the glory of God! We all sin but some sins are more visual then others and bring on more judgement from people including the church! We are not to be the judge of anything but we are called to love! People who struggle with homosexuality should not feel condemned to walk through the door of a church but should feel loved and supported as they have to struggle with such a difficult battle. We should be the ones helping them walk through the struggle. We don't have to support their actions but we can help them to stand up against their sin and find peace in the arms of God! God is love! So love!

If a person acknowledges their sin as sin then yes acceptance and support is the good way to go..

But if a person declares their homosexuality to be good and right then they need to be told in no uncertain terms that their lifestyle is sin and against the world of God and if they continue to resist the truth then they should not be welcomes as members of the Christian community..

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

One of the biggest mistakes of some Christians in the church is to think that we are not the same as the people who are not Christian. That we are more privileged. We would all go to hell if Jesus didn't save us. That's why we are to go and make disciples of all nations. That doesn't exclude people with certain life difficulties or sin. I would assume that if your getting punched in church because of your faith that the church should celebrate not retaliate. Did Jesus retaliate? I don't think so! He instead saved us from certain death. The Bible is clear about sexuality immortality, adultery and homosexuality. Anything that is outside of God's will is a sin. I am not judging. If you did drugs after you went to church that doesn't me I won't love you as a person. I definitely won't support your hobbies. That's not judgement that's love. If you come to church I would think you want to follow God's principles. If that's the case then as a part of your family in Christ I would support you as you try to stop the drug habit. There's no judgement just love!

I would assume that if your getting punched in church because of your faith that the church should celebrate not retaliate. I didn't really suggest what caused someone to punch me.

Let's say someone disagrees with my politics and decides to punch me. The church probably should make a fuss.

If someone decides to shoot me over my political beliefs, the church ought to be outraged.

Getting punched isn't as serious and bad as being shot. The reaction by the church shouldn't be equal in both cases.

I am not judging. If you did drugs after you went to church that doesn't me I won't love you as a person. I definitely won't support your hobbies. That's not judgement that's love. If you come to church I would think you want to follow God's principles. If that's the case then as a part of your family in Christ I would support you as you try to stop the drug habit. There's no judgement just love! In my first post in this thread I noted that we can judge, but there are limitations. If I tell a person that he is eternally condemned, I'm judging in a way I can't. If I judge that a person is doing something wrong - and it's declared wrong in Scripture - I can judge. We might also call the latter discernment.

 

[GuidanceGodsWay]

Well, I guess I'll be the first to not totally agree. ::shrug::

All sin is equal. Stealing a million dollars is worse than stealing a buck. Punching a person is not as bad as murdering a person. Sin isn't all "equally bad". All sin is bad, but not all equally bad.

Nonetheless, sin stinks. Reminds me of dumpsters. One stinks bad and the next is unbearable.

What if all sins were equally bad? Then we should get equally angry anytime we are offended by sin...regardless of what it is. Also, the punishment in the legal system should be the same for all crimes, regardless of what the crime is.

For those who wish to remind me that we are to submit to government authority(Romans 13), you should be doing everything you can to change the law so that all crimes/sins are treated equally.

we all fall short of the glory of God! True.

We all sin but some sins are more visual then others and bring on more judgement from people including the church! Rightly so! If ya punch me in the nose the church ought to make a fuss about it. If you murder me, the church should be appalled by it. Murdering me is worse than punching me.

We are not to be the judge of anything but we are called to love! Depends on how you are defining "judge". Are we to judge a person's eternal destiny? No. Should we tell people what Scripture says about sin and the eternal consequences of sin? YES!

Anyone ever notice, as s/he reads Scripture, that Scripture constantly judges? The Christian Bible is very much a book of judging actions and intent. Somehow, though, we can't use that to judge the actions/deeds of ourselves and others? The writers of Scripture were inspired by the Holy Spirit to make judgement calls but we can't judge?

we are called to love! Parents judge the actions of their children and correct them when necessary. That's what a loving parent does. Teach and guide the child.

People who struggle with homosexuality should not feel condemned to walk through the door of a church but should feel loved and supported as they have to struggle with such a difficult battle. True! Your statement here, by the way, seems to suggest something wrong about homosexuality. Are you judging and determining it to be a sin?

We don't have to support their actions but we can help them to stand up against their sin and find peace in the arms of God! God is love! So love! True. Interestingly, you are almost reversing your earlier statement. It's as though you're writing that we can disagree and judge their actions/lifestyle to be wrong, though we should still be willing to help them through their struggle.

James 2 10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Does it seem God sees sin as equal?

What is/are the "eternal consequences of sin" you speak of?

 

[1234Canuck]

Jesus died for all sin! It shouldn't be an argument of whether it's equal. Worldly consequences have no factor in what Jesus died for! Jesus died for so we can spend eternity with him! "Those who are without sin, throw the first stone" Jesus

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

James 2 10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Does it seem God sees sin as equal?

What is/are the "eternal consequences of sin" you speak of?

What James 2:10 tells me is that sin offends the entirety of God. It says nothing about the degree or magnitude of the offense/sin.

It's kinda like when we are offended. We don't go and say "You hurt my feeling". We say "You hurt my feelings!" We are entirely offended.

However, not all offenses hurt our feelings equally. Regardless of how bad we are offended/hurt, though, it's always our feelings, not a single feeling that gets offended/hurt.

James 2:10 is the most common argument against sin gradation.

If James 2:10 means all sins are equal, then we have to harmonize that with other Scripture.

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. -Matt 7:1-5

If all sins are equal, then how can one have a speck and another have a plank? All should be the same size.


And he said to me, “Son of man, do you see what they are doing—the utterly detestable things the Israelites are doing here, things that will drive me far from my sanctuary? But you will see things that are even more detestable.” Ezekiel 8:6

Ezekiel isn't consistent with the suggestion that sins are all equally bad.

Just a couple examples.

 

[1234Canuck]

Why would you get shot over your political beliefs? That's a silly comment. Your assuming the church is going to agree with your political beliefs. That would mean your political belief line up with scripture. In that case if you got shot your a martyr and you died for your faith. That's admirable. The church would rejoice in your choice to not back down. The church like Christ is called to love their enemies not become outraged and react worldly. Sorry but your comment does not line up with biblical principles.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

One of the biggest mistakes of some Christians in the church is to think that we are not the same as the people who are not Christian. That we are more privileged. We would all go to hell if Jesus didn't save us. That's why we are to go and make disciples of all nations. That doesn't exclude people with certain life difficulties or sin. I would assume that if your getting punched in church because of your faith that the church should celebrate not retaliate. Did Jesus retaliate? I don't think so! He instead saved us from certain death. The Bible is clear about sexuality immortality, adultery and homosexuality. Anything that is outside of God's will is a sin. I am not judging. If you did drugs after you went to church that doesn't me I won't love you as a person. I definitely won't support your hobbies. That's not judgement that's love. If you come to church I would think you want to follow God's principles. If that's the case then as a part of your family in Christ I would support you as you try to stop the drug habit. There's no judgement just love!

Theres a difference between someone who accepts its wrong, repents and tries to leave that life, and someone who denies that its wrong, rationalizes their way to be okay with it and lives it willfully.

You can love someone, and still stand on your beliefs. It is not hateful to stand where God stands on homosexuality. It is not hateful to disagree or to not support the way a person chooses to live their life.

If you dont disagree with what I posted here, then I dont really understand why you created this thread to begin with : p Everyone here already knows this.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

Jesus died for all sin! It shouldn't be an argument of whether it's equal. Worldly consequences have no factor in what Jesus died for! Jesus died for so we can spend eternity with him! "Those who are without sin, throw the first stone" Jesus

It shouldn't be an argument of whether it's equal. You made the claim that all sins are equal. That was the very first claim you made. First proclamation. That shouldn't have been part of your argument.

The claim is not correct. Sadly, many seemed to agree with you.

That we should love sinners - which we ourselves are as well - and help those struggling with sin...there we agree. Hopefully everyone who reads the thread also agrees.

Not sure where we are on the issue of judging.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

Why would you get shot over your political beliefs? That's a silly comment. Your assuming the church is going to agree with your political beliefs. That would mean your political belief line up with scripture. In that case if you got shot your a martyr and you died for your faith. That's admirable. The church would rejoice in your choice to not back down. The church like Christ is called to love their enemies not become outraged and react worldly. Sorry but your comment does not line up with biblical principles.

So you think the church should have the same exact reaction whether I get punched in the face or whether I die?

 

[1234Canuck]

Jesus died for all sin and my belief in His deliverance and sacrifice allows me to stand blameless before God! If you feel you have a right to judge then be prepared to be judged yourself. If all your closet sins you never told anyone were exposed and you were standing next to the person who struggled with homosexuality and both of you have asked for forgiveness and believe in God, He would welcome both of you with open arms! That's all that matters.

 

[1234Canuck]

I'm not sure why you feel like your that important that the church should react? What are you wanting them to do? The church is not a mafia or gang that will avenge a fallen member. We are meant to love and do the opposite of what are sinful nature would want. It's selfish to think we can pursue vengeance. Vengeance is mine saith the Lord.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

Jesus died for all sin and my belief in His deliverance and sacrifice allows me to stand blameless before God! If you feel you have a right to judge then be prepared to be judged yourself. If all your closet sins you never told anyone were exposed and you were standing next to the person who struggled with homosexuality and both of you have asked for forgiveness and believe in God, He would welcome both of you with open arms! That's all that matters.

When you are responding to people, it would help a lot if you would QUOTE THEM.

Who is this post addressing? How is anyone supposed to know?

If you don't quote whoever you're responding to, it's like your talking to someone invisible. What do you think when you see/hear people talking to invisible friends?

If you feel you have a right to judge then be prepared to be judged yourself. You apparently think I'm wrong about something or you wouldn't be warning me about being judged. You're making a judgement. How can you make that judgement if it's wrong to judge?

I think you're aware of Matt 7:1-7. You've almost quoted it. Look up John 7:24 and explain it. Harmonize it with Matt 7:1-7. Does the Bible contradict there?