Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?

[Quasar92]

Wow quasar, are you ever blind? Again, I did "NOT" interprete the remarks of Jesus Christ at John 2:19. The Apostle John interpreted Jesus' remarks at John 2:21, not me. And then you have the nerve to tell me that Jesus did not resurrect Himself? What part of His words at John 2:19 don't you understand? "Destroy this temple and in three days I WILL RAISE IT UP."

Jesus Christ was clearly foretelling His own resurrection. "Jesus is literally asserting that in the space of three days He will raise His own body. No man could make this claim. Jesus Christ is by nature and action God! And btw, this is not an isolated assertion, for He also said He had authority to lay down His life and take it again. Lastly, you still did not address your own question of "what Jesus Christ meant quasar? Why don't you show me your exegesis of the passage in a way that demonstrates how you can deny the obvious of what it says? No wonder you don't want to continue this discussion with me, it's because your "stuck" and you know it.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Btw,

[SUP]Jn.8:28 "[/SUP]So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up[SUP][a][/SUP] the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me."


[SUP]Jn.14:10 "[/SUP]Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."


Review the following:


Did Jesus Christ raise himself from the dead?




Quasar92

 

[valiant]

[SUP]Jn.8:28 "[/SUP]So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up[SUP][a][/SUP] the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me."


[SUP]Jn.14:10 "[/SUP]Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."

Jesus said, 'For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My Life that I MAY TAKE IT AGAIN. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have power to lay it down, AND I HAVE POWER TO TAKE IT AGAIN. This charge I have received from My Father' John 10.17-18

seems more complicated than you suggest. The Father and the Son combine in raising Him,

 

[mpaper345]

I do not look at it as a trinity,but the 3 relationships God has with His people designated by titles.

Father-parent of the saints.

Son-God's visible relationship to the saints,for there is one throne in heaven,and one who sits on that throne,which is the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.God in visible activity.

Holy Spirit-God's invisible relationship to the saints.God is invisible activity.

One God who is a Holy Spirit,and that is why the Spirit moved upon creation in the beginning,and Jesus was conceived by the Spirit,and the Spirit dwells in the saints.Father is a title for God,and the Son is the man Christ Jesus,which the Bible says when the fulness of the time was come,God sent forth His Son,made of a woman,made under the law,and made according to the flesh.

Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,which means God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus,and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God,for God cannot be separated,and according to His deity has no beginning,but according to His humanity has a beginning.

The Bible says that Jesus dwells in the light that no man can approach,whom no person has seen,and no person will ever see,which Jesus is the invisible God,that showed a visible image of Himself.

Let us make man in our image.God had the plan to come in the future in flesh before He laid down the foundation of the world,the Word of God that was in the beginning,and God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future,it will surely come to pass,in which all the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Adam made in the image of God in the Old.Adam made in the similitude of Jesus in the Old.The image of God is the image of Christ.

God had the plan to come in the future in flesh,and created Adam in that image,so the man Christ Jesus has to be a part of let us make man in our image,for He is part of that image.

Let us make man in our image,God and the man Christ Jesus,which He was in the beginning before He was born,for God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,which the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,and the prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world,and the saints have salvation in the beginning,although they were all future events.

Jesus at the right hand of God.One throne in heaven,one who sits on that throne,which is the throne of both Gd and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.

One God,one mediator,the man Christ Jesus.God manifest in flesh,mankind reconciled to God,God and man in harmony.

Jesus said all power is given unto Me in heaven and earth.

King David said,the LORD said unto my Lord,sit on My right hand until your enemies are conquered.The Son must reign until His enemies are conquered,and the saints are united with the Father,then the Son will submit to the Father,that God may be all in all,which the Son will stop being at the right hand,which means His mediator role is no longer necessary.

God ruling through the man Christ Jesus for the sake of the saints,until the saints are united with the Father,then mediator role no longer needed,and God will be all in all,for we do not have to go through the Son to have a relationship with the Father.

Baptism in the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost.

Old Testament God said He would reveal a new name to the Jews and speak to them.Jesus said He came in His Father's name.

The Son inherited the name from the Father,

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

The name of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost,is Jesus,for Jesus is God who created all things,was manifest in flesh,and dwells in the saints.

Jesus told the disciples when He resurrects to heaven to not ask Him anything,but only ask the Father in His name,and He will do it,but in another passage of scripture Jesus said ask Him,and He will do it.

The Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father,but in another passage of scripture Jesus shall present the Church to Himself.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

There is one God,the Father,and one visible manifestation of God to the saints,the Lord Jesus Christ.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

The Bible states there is one God,the Father.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

The Son shall be called the everlasting Father.

Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

If you have seen Jesus then you have seen the Father.

One God that is an omnipresent Spirit,that is the same throughout His omnipresent Spirit,with no distinction of persons,that showed a visible image of Himself,Jesus Christ.

The trinity is something the Roman Catholic Church developed,that the Protestants held unto to,and has become popular to where a lot of people that claim Christ believe it is truth,but with all the information of the Bible,there is only one God,the Father.

 

[Quasar92]

Now I have to raised doubts of your 35 years of developing your belief system for Jesus did not " became" Son of God or God the Son until Mt.1:20 and Luke 1:35. Of course this is not unitarianism but socinianism being against the "eternal generation" of the Son, the Word. God manifested in the flesh. Well your documentation was already dealt with previous posts. No need to rehash...

As such, you are calling me a liar! I challenge you to find one other source of Christian authority to find a single interpretation of the Biblical descriptin of God, that duplicates mine 100%, or even close to it. I also challenge you to find one single part of it false. Should you fail to do so, and it is more than likely your views of this issue are false.


Quasar02

 

[bluto]

[SUP]Jn.8:28 "[/SUP]So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up[SUP][a][/SUP] the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me."


[SUP]Jn.14:10 "[/SUP]Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."


Review the following:


Did Jesus Christ raise himself from the dead?




Quasar92

This is embarassing quasar, especially for you? I went to the webstie you referenced and found the following. A poster ask the question "Did Jesus raise Himself from the dead?" Within that question the poster said this? "But there are some who in believing Jesus is God believe that Jesus raised himself from the dead."

So I go on and read the answer by Mr. Ivan Maddox and does he address first and foremost the posters denial of the deity of Jesus Christ? No! I then did some research on Maddox and the following is what I found. Adoni Messiah: VARIOUS ARTICLES BY IVAN MADDOX

This so-called teacher also denies the deity of Jesus Christ as well as denying that Jesus Christ did not raise Himself from the dead just like you. In other words quasar, you are using anti-christ sources to support your heretical positions, i.e Jesus did not preexist His incarnation and Jesus Christ did not raise Himself from the dead. This in spite of the fact you teach that Jesus did not become God until He incarnated.

Now, I read every word of the article and Ivan Maddox like you rips verses out of their context in order to support their theological bias. Like I said in another post of mine "you are spiritually blind" and am unwilling to be open minded and change your view despite the obvious evidence against you. And what do you base your position on? "Well, I'm 92 years old with a Bible certificate and years of experience therefore you can't touch me because I know it all." This is your attitude!

So, I'm going to ask you again about you saying Jesus did not mean to say He rasied Himself from the dead? Why don't you show me your exergesis of the passage in a way that demonstrates how you can deny the obvious of what the passages say? I'm talking about John 2:19-21. And btw, regarding words. Something can not mean something other than what is says, and what it says is BASED in the words, their definitions, grammar, and syntax. I don't care whether it is literal, figurative, metaphorical, poetic. Something can not means something OTHER than what is says.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Quasar92]

This is embarassing quasar, especially for you? I went to the webstie you referenced and found the following. A poster ask the question "Did Jesus raise Himself from the dead?" Within that question the poster said this? "But there are some who in believing Jesus is God believe that Jesus raised himself from the dead."

So I go on and read the answer by Mr. Ivan Maddox and does he address first and foremost the posters denial of the deity of Jesus Christ? No! I then did some research on Maddox and the following is what I found. Adoni Messiah: VARIOUS ARTICLES BY IVAN MADDOX

This so-called teacher also denies the deity of Jesus Christ as well as denying that Jesus Christ did not raise Himself from the dead just like you. In other words quasar, you are using anti-christ sources to support your heretical positions, i.e Jesus did not preexist His incarnation and Jesus Christ did not raise Himself from the dead. This in spite of the fact you teach that Jesus did not become God until He incarnated.

Now, I read every word of the article and Ivan Maddox like you rips verses out of their context in order to support their theological bias. Like I said in another post of mine "you are spiritually blind" and am unwilling to be open minded and change your view despite the obvious evidence against you. And what do you base your position on? "Well, I'm 92 years old with a Bible certificate and years of experience therefore you can't touch me because I know it all." This is your attitude!

So, I'm going to ask you again about you saying Jesus did not mean to say He rasied Himself from the dead? Why don't you show me your exergesis of the passage in a way that demonstrates how you can deny the obvious of what the passages say? I'm talking about John 2:19-21. And btw, regarding words. Something can not mean something other than what is says, and what it says is BASED in the words, their definitions, grammar, and syntax. I don't care whether it is literal, figurative, metaphorical, poetic. Something can not means something OTHER than what is says.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

What I believe is clearly delineated in my post #678, bluto. I accept the fact that the Father brought Jesus back to life, and THEN Jesus raised Himself from His tomb, that the prophecy could be fulfilled as spoken by Jesus. My apology for the error of posting the link to Ivan Maddox. If my posts do not make it crystal clear on the issue of Jesus deity, I nost certainly believe He is the Son of God/God the Son.


Quasar92

 

[jaybird88]

No! I then did some research on Maddox and the following is what I found.

did you know you can do this with anyone on the planet. if they say something you dont like, put them under a microscope and if you look hard enough you can always find something negative to say.
maybe research his teachings rather than the teacher, just a thought. sounds like you clicked on the link with a pre determined agenda to discredit him.

 

[Quasar92]

Jesus said, 'For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My Life that I MAY TAKE IT AGAIN. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have power to lay it down, AND I HAVE POWER TO TAKE IT AGAIN. This charge I have received from My Father' John 10.17-18

seems more complicated than you suggest. The Father and the Son combine in raising Him,

As I posted in 678, it is certain the Father brought Jesus back to life, according to the Scriptures. THEN Jesus raised Himself out of His tomb, to fulfill the prophecies He made of Himself.


Quasar92

 

[jaybird88]

Blutos sig made me think of something. of all the titles of Jesus he chose that one. and here are the number of times they are mentioned in the bible:

Son of man - 89
Son of G-D - 47
G-D the Son - 0

that third one is never mentioned, i wonder why?

 

[bluto]

Blutos sig made me think of something. of all the titles of Jesus he chose that one. and here are the number of times they are mentioned in the bible:

Son of man - 89
Son of G-D - 47
G-D the Son - 0

that third one is never mentioned, i wonder why?

I don't "wonder" why jaybird, I know why? And I'm so happy you finally thought of something? Now all you have to do is take your "thinking" a little farther by reading and understanding your Bible. For instance, did not the Apostle Thomas at John 20:28 identify Jesus Christ as his "LORD and GOD?" And did not God the Father identify His only begotten Son as God at Hebrews 1:8?

Since that is a true declaration by Thomas and God the Father let's see if you agree with the following? To say the Father is God, is equal to saying "God the Father." In like manner to say "the Son is God," is equal to saying "God the Son." So what did I say jaybird that is not Biblical? Remember your own words?

"did you know you can do this with anyone on the planet. if they say something you dont like, put them under a microscope and if you look hard enough you can always find something negative to say." So what did I say that is negative by putting the Bible under the microscope?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Quasar92]

Blutos sig made me think of something. of all the titles of Jesus he chose that one. and here are the number of times they are mentioned in the bible:

Son of man - 89
Son of G-D - 47
G-D the Son - 0

that third one is never mentioned, i wonder why?

Try Ps.45:6-7; Heb.1:9 and Ps.110:1.


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

I don't "wonder" why jaybird, I know why? And I'm so happy you finally thought of something? Now all you have to do is take your "thinking" a little farther by reading and understanding your Bible. For instance, did not the Apostle Thomas at John 20:28 identify Jesus Christ as his "LORD and GOD?" And did not God the Father identify His only begotten Son as God at Hebrews 1:8?

Since that is a true declaration by Thomas and God the Father let's see if you agree with the following? To say the Father is God, is equal to saying "God the Father." In like manner to say "the Son is God," is equal to saying "God the Son." So what did I say jaybird that is not Biblical? Remember your own words?

"did you know you can do this with anyone on the planet. if they say something you dont like, put them under a microscope and if you look hard enough you can always find something negative to say." So what did I say that is negative by putting the Bible under the microscope?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

According to the Scriptures, God, who is the Holy Spirit and Father, was the ONLY God from all eternity through the OT, as recorded below:

4.God makes it clear in the OT, He is eternal, that there is no other God but He Himself. "....Before me no God was formed, nor will there be one after me." Isa.43:10. And in Isa.44:6, "....I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God." See also Isa.45:5: "I am the Lord and there is no other," and in Ex.3:14: "I AM WHO I AM."

Yahwey created the universe through the pre-incarnate Jesus, as recorded in Heb.1:1-2. But Jesus did not become the Son of God/God the Son until recorded in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:35.


Quasar92

 

[VCO]

Blutos sig made me think of something. of all the titles of Jesus he chose that one. and here are the number of times they are mentioned in the bible:

Son of man - 89
Son of G-D - 47
G-D the Son - 0

that third one is never mentioned, i wonder why?

Doesn't GOD count as the absolute MAJORITY? You missed ONE.

Hebrews 1:8 (RSV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom.

 

[jaybird88]

Doesn't GOD count as the absolute MAJORITY? You missed ONE.

Hebrews 1:8 (RSV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom.

i believe the All High is the absolute majority but according to doctrine of man He is not. thats what my example was pointing out.

 

[jaybird88]

I don't "wonder" why jaybird, I know why? And I'm so happy you finally thought of something? Now all you have to do is take your "thinking" a little farther by reading and understanding your Bible. For instance, did not the Apostle Thomas at John 20:28 identify Jesus Christ as his "LORD and GOD?" And did not God the Father identify His only begotten Son as God at Hebrews 1:8?

was moses not made a G-D to pharaoh? is he G-D to?
is Hebrews 1:8 not a reference to Psalms 45:6-7
“Your arrows are sharpened, nations shall fall under you, in the heart of the king’s enemies. Your throne, O judge, [will exist] forever and ever; the scepter of equity is the scepter of your kingdom.”

Since that is a true declaration by Thomas and God the Father let's see if you agree with the following? To say the Father is God, is equal to saying "God the Father." In like manner to say "the Son is God," is equal to saying "God the Son." So what did I say jaybird that is not Biblical? Remember your own words?

"did you know you can do this with anyone on the planet. if they say something you dont like, put them under a microscope and if you look hard enough you can always find something negative to say." So what did I say that is negative by putting the Bible under the microscope?

i dont believe in taking one passage, seeing what i want, and running with it. test it against all the scriptures (the scriptures themselves tell us to do this), not just the cherry picked ones.
yes i like to think, but i dont let me thinking turn into blind speculation that does not sync with the bible, not just bits and pieces of the bible, all the bible.

are you wrong? i dont think you are. do you think i am trying to prove you wrong? i hope not. we may have different opinions but why does that have to mean one is wrong? when Jesus was walking the earth teaching He addressed this issue and He didnt make a big deal of it. why do you?

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant

Jesus said, 'For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My Life that I MAY TAKE IT AGAIN. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have power to lay it down, AND I HAVE POWER TO TAKE IT AGAIN. This charge I have received from My Father' John 10.17-18

seems more complicated than you suggest. The Father and the Son combine in raising Him,

As I posted in 678, it is certain the Father brought Jesus back to life, according to the Scriptures. THEN Jesus raised Himself out of His tomb, to fulfill the prophecies He made of Himself.


Quasar92

LOL if you have to go to those lengths you are discredited immediately !!!!

 

[VCO]

i believe the All High is the absolute majority but according to doctrine of man He is not. thats what my example was pointing out.

If you are saying you do believe in the Deity of Jesus Christ, as long as you do not think He is a second god or lesser god like the Jehovah Witnesses will tell you; then we are closer to agreeing than we ever have been.

 

[valiant]

was moses not made a G-D to pharaoh? is he G-D to?
is Hebrews 1:8 not a reference to Psalms 45:6-7
“Your arrows are sharpened, nations shall fall under you, in the heart of the king’s enemies. Your throne, O judge, [will exist] forever and ever; the scepter of equity is the scepter of your kingdom.”



i dont believe in taking one passage, seeing what i want, and running with it. test it against all the scriptures (the scriptures themselves tell us to do this), not just the cherry picked ones.
yes i like to think, but i dont let me thinking turn into blind speculation that does not sync with the bible, not just bits and pieces of the bible, all the bible.

are you wrong? i dont think you are. do you think i am trying to prove you wrong? i hope not. we may have different opinions but why does that have to mean one is wrong? when Jesus was walking the earth teaching He addressed this issue and He didnt make a big deal of it. why do you?

He made a bid deal of it in the following:

Jesus said, 'That all may honour the Son AS they honour the Father. He who does not honour the Son (as they honour the Father), does not honour the Father Who sent Him.' John 5.23


“For as the Father has life in Himself, so has He given the Son to have life in Himself” John 5.26


Jesus answered them, “MY Father is working still and I am working.” This was why the Jews sought the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also called God His own Father, making Himself equal with God John 5.17-18


“Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM” John 8.58


Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father and we will be satisfied.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know Me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, Show us the Father. John 14.9


“And this is life eternal, that they may know you the only true God and Jesus Christ Whom You have sent – and now, Father, glorify Me with the glory which I had with You before the world was” (John 17.5)


John said, 'In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was face to face with God, and What God was the Word was, – and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us” (John 1.1, 14).


The risen Jesus said, “Baptising them in the (one) Name (YHWH) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” Matthew 28.19


And for us there is ONE GOD, the Father, from Whom are all things and for Whom we exist, and ONE LORD through Whom are all things and through Whom we exist 1 Corinthians 8.6 (in contrast with the many gods and lords)


He is the IMAGE of the invisible God, the firstBORN before the whole of creation Colossians 1.15


In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form Colossians 2.9


Awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ Titus 2.13


When the goodness and kindness of God our Saviour appeared, – which He poured out upon us through Jesus Christ our Saviour Titus 3.4, 6


In the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ – of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ 2 Peter 1.1 ,11 (exactly parallel in the Greek).


Who being the outshining of His glory and the exact representation of His substance Heb 1.3


He is the SON in contrast to all angels Heb 1.4 following.


Thomas called Him, “my LORD and my God”. John 20.28

 

[bluto]

was moses not made a G-D to pharaoh? is he G-D to?
is Hebrews 1:8 not a reference to Psalms 45:6-7
“Your arrows are sharpened, nations shall fall under you, in the heart of the king’s enemies. Your throne, O judge, [will exist] forever and ever; the scepter of equity is the scepter of your kingdom.”



i dont believe in taking one passage, seeing what i want, and running with it. test it against all the scriptures (the scriptures themselves tell us to do this), not just the cherry picked ones.
yes i like to think, but i dont let me thinking turn into blind speculation that does not sync with the bible, not just bits and pieces of the bible, all the bible.

are you wrong? i dont think you are. do you think i am trying to prove you wrong? i hope not. we may have different opinions but why does that have to mean one is wrong? when Jesus was walking the earth teaching He addressed this issue and He didnt make a big deal of it. why do you?

Oh please jaybird! God Almighty was "NOT" attributing deith to Moses at Exodus 7:1. The text says "I have made thee a god to Pharaoh." Jesus Christ on the other had was "identified" as God in the Bible. Furthermore, there are a few more verses that identify Jesus as God besides the two I gave you from John 20:28 and Hebrews 1:8.

How about Titus 2:13? Or what about 2 Peter 1:1 or 1 Timothy 3:16. Oh yea, there is also John 1:1 and John 1:18. And if you don't think I'm wrong why are you telling me I have to use the whole Bible? And btw, speaking of opinions? I'm sure you have heard people say, "that my interpretation and your interpretation are equally valid even though they may contradict each other.

When we disagree your view may not be correct; mine may not be correct which means we both can be wrong. But both of cannot be right at the same time in the same place. There may be thousands of applications of a given text BUT THERE IS ONLY ONE CORRECT MEANING, PERIOD. And yes, all of this is a big deal because it can have eternal consequencies for people in the long run. So it would be wise for you to loose the "not a big deal" attitude because your going to be held responsible for what you say. I'm sure there are "lukers" out there that read this stuff.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[jaybird88]

Oh please jaybird! God Almighty was "NOT" attributing deith to Moses at Exodus 7:1. The text says "I have made thee a god to Pharaoh." Jesus Christ on the other had was "identified" as God in the Bible. Furthermore, there are a few more verses that identify Jesus as God besides the two I gave you from John 20:28 and Hebrews 1:8.

im just telling you what the bible says. like i said, test against ALL scripture.

And yes, all of this is a big deal because it can have eternal consequencies for people in the long run.

salvation is dependent on the trinity? does Jesus teach this? i dont think so. again your using these doctrines, laws of man, as a tool to say who goes to heaven. this i strongly disagree with. mankind does not decide who goes to heaven.