Psychology/Psychiatry/Counseling

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C

CeileDe

Guest
#1
I have a real hard time with Psychology/Psychiatry. I guess I feel God/Word of God can deal with these issues. Anyone else feel this way or am I a minority? :)
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#2
Personally I believe that any Psychology/Psychiatry/counselling that is not based on the finished work of Christ is just trying to manipulate the flesh and will have just very limited results.

In saying that - our loving Father will use whatever He can to help us - even if it is based on semi-truths and understandings.
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#3
I wonder why people feel that way about psychology.
I feel it's like saying "oh, your broken leg will mend itself in time, no need for a cast"
 
Y

Yahweh_is_gracious

Guest
#4
Some people need someone to talk to that isn't intimately connected to them and doesn't have an emotional attachment to them. Impartiality is a big benefit of seeing a therapist, as is having a learned expert be able to help a person look at their issues from a different point of view. I've tried using God as my therapist, but it was a one sided conversation.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,247
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#5
Psychology: the language of the soul. How is that a bad thing? Should we be completely ignorant of our journey through life as we progress from being completely lost and against God to seeking His will for our lives through a sincere desire to know Truth? In seeking to understand who we are in our most innermost selves, we may be groping about in the dark at first, but surely people progress through self knowledge. Maybe it is not for everyone. I used to have a hard time just accepting everything at face value. I had to dig beneath the surface. Counseling helped. It may have saved my life. It certainly helped me live long enough that I finally got to the place where I could surrender to the God I had run from most of my life :)
 

Fenner

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2013
7,507
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#6
Many times therapy has helped me gain a clearer perspective of things. I haven't seen a psychologist in many years but when I did he helped me tremendously. Also mental illness is a very real thing. Not everyone that sees a therapist is mentally ill though. Someone might be struggling and need help to get through something, like a divorce. It discourages me to read like you just need God or only a Christian counselor is credible. Would you tell a person with schizophrenia to just pray it away? They can't, you can pray for healing but mental illness doesn't just go away.

Post traumatic stress disorder doesn't just go away, it's not like having a cold. We need Doctors of the mind just like we need Doctors of the body.
 
C

CeileDe

Guest
#7
Wouldn't a pastor fill that void of talking to someone? I guess I can't say I wouldn't go to a counselor cause I did see a Christian Counselor before, but it was strictly based off of Scripture. I guess I'm more against the non-christian based practices.
 
E

eph610

Guest
#8
The OP is espousing Nouthetic counseling and this is a very dangerous doctrine. The focus of Nouthetic counseling doctrine is that everything we face is because of SIN. After coming to Christ SIN becomes a choice, not something you are helpless over.

Martin & Deidre Bobgan are the current day proponents of Nouthetic counseling.

My own Parents were trained in Nouthetic counseling back in the early 70's and stopped adhering to it by the early 80's, when they came to the Biblical Truth once you come to Christ you are no longer a sinner, but a saint.

I do believe in the use of Christians based Psychologists, that have a Christian based Psychology degree.
Unless there is a very serious psychosis present, that is endangering the life of the person or those around them and only a sedative to calm the person. I would not recommend any form of Psychiatry. Prescribing mind altering drugs is not the answer.

Some parts of Nouthetic counseling does have it's place in pastoral counseling, but it is susceptible to abuses. Many Baptist denominations that still cling to this are very literal in their interpretation of the Bible when it comes to discipline for SIN.

My Parents started seeing the light when they saw a father beat his 13 year old daughter with a "Rod" for disobeying him. The church backed the Father and shunned his wife and daughter.

Nouthetic counseling is founded in the false teaching of sin-consciousness theology and places more under condemnation than the word of Faith movement ever has.


I wonder if the OP goes to a medical doctor, or just adheres to the Bible for healing.

I cannot count the times I have watched in horror, those that refuse to go to Doctor because of distorted communicated Bible knowledge and died, when all they needed was a antibiotic or stitches or a bone set.

God has gifted us with fellow brothers and sisters, in Science, health, medicine and psychology, that he also uses to heal with.
God heals us and uses many different gifts of healing to accomplish it.
 
C

CeileDe

Guest
#9
The OP is espousing Nouthetic counseling and this is a very dangerous doctrine. The focus of Nouthetic counseling doctrine is that everything we face is because of SIN. After coming to Christ SIN becomes a choice, not something you are helpless over.

Martin & Deidre Bobgan are the current day proponents of Nouthetic counseling.

My own Parents were trained in Nouthetic counseling back in the early 70's and stopped adhering to it by the early 80's, when they came to the Biblical Truth once you come to Christ you are no longer a sinner, but a saint.

I do believe in the use of Christians based Psychologists, that have a Christian based Psychology degree.
Unless there is a very serious psychosis present, that is endangering the life of the person or those around them and only a sedative to calm the person. I would not recommend any form of Psychiatry. Prescribing mind altering drugs is not the answer.

Some parts of Nouthetic counseling does have it's place in pastoral counseling, but it is susceptible to abuses. Many Baptist denominations that still cling to this are very literal in their interpretation of the Bible when it comes to discipline for SIN.

My Parents started seeing the light when they saw a father beat his 13 year old daughter with a "Rod" for disobeying him. The church backed the Father and shunned his wife and daughter.

Nouthetic counseling is founded in the false teaching of sin-consciousness theology and places more under condemnation than the word of Faith movement ever has.


I wonder if the OP goes to a medical doctor, or just adheres to the Bible for healing.

I cannot count the times I have watched in horror, those that refuse to go to Doctor because of distorted communicated Bible knowledge and died, when all they needed was a antibiotic or stitches or a bone set.

God has gifted us with fellow brothers and sisters, in Science, health, medicine and psychology, that he also uses to heal with.
God heals us and uses many different gifts of healing to accomplish it.
I'm not saying anyone else shouldn't do it, I just choose not to. I just don't agree with a non biblical way of getting help FOR ME. Please don't make this out to be me saying no one else should.
 
Y

Yahweh_is_gracious

Guest
#10
Wouldn't a pastor fill that void of talking to someone? I guess I can't say I wouldn't go to a counselor cause I did see a Christian Counselor before, but it was strictly based off of Scripture. I guess I'm more against the non-christian based practices.
That is your preference, and you are allowed to have your preferences. I have mine. When I need help, I go to people who have the knowledge and experience to help me, and I don't pay attention to whether or not they are a Christian. I wouldn't refuse medical help in the ER just because the attending physician was a Muslim, or a Hindu, or an Atheist.
 
C

CeileDe

Guest
#11
That is your preference, and you are allowed to have your preferences. I have mine. When I need help, I go to people who have the knowledge and experience to help me, and I don't pay attention to whether or not they are a Christian. I wouldn't refuse medical help in the ER just because the attending physician was a Muslim, or a Hindu, or an Atheist.
I'm not trying to argue. Just curious how others feel about it.
 
Y

Yahweh_is_gracious

Guest
#12
I'm not trying to argue. Just curious how others feel about it.
I'm not trying to argue either.

Seems around this place though, one doesn't even need to try in order to get an argument going.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
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#13
I have a bipolar group I run, and I want to urge people with mental illness to get proper medical help for their illness.

Some of these people in my group are Christians, some are not. (My hope is that my witness and words will lead them to Christ!). But all share the same problem - a disease of the brain.

The bipolar 1s have all experienced psychosis and hospitalizations. The bipolar 2s have mostly been hospitalized for suicide attempts. All of them take medications and attribute their ability to cope and contribute in life to both good counselling and psychiatry - meaning medications.

True, there can be bad psychiatrists, like in any branch of medicine, but for someone who is truly mentally ill, these drugs have literally restored their lives - including the strong Christians.

As for counselling, there is no doubt that secular counsellors dealing with things like marriage counselling, emotional or other issues will not be giving good Biblical advice. For that, I would urge people to go to a Christian counsellor who is certified as a psychologist. The person that taught my Biblical Counselling course in Seminary urged everyone to make sure that they were not sending people, as pastors, to secular councillors who did not have a strong Biblical background, but also that the counsellor had the training and background to be able to deal with people in a professional manner.

Mental illness is real, and needs real help. Yes, we can always point these people to Christ, and he can help them with their emotional problems, but when the brain is sick it needs a real doctor.
 
Dec 16, 2012
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#14
I have a real hard time with Psychology/Psychiatry. I guess I feel God/Word of God can deal with these issues. Anyone else feel this way or am I a minority? :)

My first degree was an undergrad in psychology. I knew God was calling me away from it because it was significantly dissatisfying for reasons I couldn't explain. However when I grew deeper into the word of God, I came to see how much it actually falls short and without Christ, true healing is not possible. You're not a minority, I'm in 100% agreement. I'm so much happier now in the field I'm in and I'm able to bring the fruits of that knowledge to make a positive difference in so many lives. God's Word is amazing!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#16
I started working in the pharmaceutical drug industry in 1980 and myself I wouldn't take any of the medicines for a variety of reasons unless I absolutely had to and I am not a sick person - having taken a Motrin maybe 7 times in my entire life but I also realize there are many that need whatever help they can get and I never expect anyone to make the same choices I do concerning medicines. ( this can be extrapolated to include different types of psychological therapy )

I always found that in situations like this - the scripture below seems to fit perfectly with the individual needs and expectations of all of us and also where we are at in the different times of our lives.

Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.


 
M

Mooky

Guest
#17
I have a real hard time with Psychology/Psychiatry. I guess I feel God/Word of God can deal with these issues. Anyone else feel this way or am I a minority? :)
Hi Ceile,

I totally hear you.I have wrestled with this topic many times.The conclusion I have drawn is that secular psychology tends to be very self centred.It's all about your goals, your problems and your mental health.They leave God completely out of the picture.

Then one gets "christian psychologists."They are usually practitioners who have a psychology degree with maybe a bit of bible college.I find this to be an unsatisfactory state of affairs because how do they know how to weed out the futile theories from godless men from those that may actually be beneficial?

So, I did a bit of research.There is a branch of counselling called ," nouthetic " or biblical counselling.The practitioners operate with sanctification - not self actualization as its goal.( If you are familiar with Abraham Maslows hierachy of needs you would know that self actualization is the capstone.)

So biblical counselling.Biblical counsellors have a christian world view which they impart to their clients and it is by far the most useful way of sorting out ones problems with a professional to my mind.
It has taken off in America and there should be a few where you are.

If you are interested ,I have included a link to CCEF - the headquarters of this movement.On this site you can either find training in biblical counselling or find a counsellor.
Blessings!

https://www.ccef.org/
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
2,940
113
#18
Hi Ceile,

I totally hear you.I have wrestled with this topic many times.The conclusion I have drawn is that secular psychology tends to be very self centred.It's all about your goals, your problems and your mental health.They leave God completely out of the picture.

Then one gets "christian psychologists."They are usually practitioners who have a psychology degree with maybe a bit of bible college.I find this to be an unsatisfactory state of affairs because how do they know how to weed out the futile theories from godless men from those that may actually be beneficial?

So, I did a bit of research.There is a branch of counselling called ," nouthetic " or biblical counselling.The practitioners operate with sanctification - not self actualization as its goal.( If you are familiar with Abraham Maslows hierachy of needs you would know that self actualization is the capstone.)

So biblical counselling.Biblical counsellors have a christian world view which they impart to their clients and it is by far the most useful way of sorting out ones problems with a professional to my mind.
It has taken off in America and there should be a few where you are.

If you are interested ,I have included a link to CCEF - the headquarters of this movement.On this site you can either find training in biblical counselling or find a counsellor.
Blessings!

https://www.ccef.org/
You need to read post #8 above. In Biblical counseling, we were exposed to Nouthetic counseling. I read several books written by authors who espoused this view, and there were some positives to this method.

However, there were also a lot of negatives. It is dogmatic and rigid. It is about the counseling method, not the patient, and at times, not even about God. If you want to be pounded that everything is your fault, then I would recommend it.

If you want a more Biblical method - which includes personal growth and focusing on Christ, I would advise you stay away from people using this method.

My suggestion is also that you do not recommend methods that you know nothing about!
 
E

eph610

Guest
#19
Many times therapy has helped me gain a clearer perspective of things. I haven't seen a psychologist in many years but when I did he helped me tremendously. Also mental illness is a very real thing. Not everyone that sees a therapist is mentally ill though. Someone might be struggling and need help to get through something, like a divorce. It discourages me to read like you just need God or only a Christian counselor is credible. Would you tell a person with schizophrenia to just pray it away? They can't, you can pray for healing but mental illness doesn't just go away.

Post traumatic stress disorder doesn't just go away, it's not like having a cold. We need Doctors of the mind just like we need Doctors of the body.
Our daughter needed to see a psychologist, after her young adult pastor and his wife spoke to her and walked her through some things, it was their request she see a bona-fide psychologist. We let our daughter pick one and he was a non-believer and subtly began implanting the wrong things in her head. Thankfully she is a strong daughter of God and discerned the subtle evil he was feeding into her. She promptly stopped the appointments with him and went with a Christian one her Pastor referred her to.

I had no beef with the non-believer, but he was using new age remedies and wanted to try hypnosis and other very demonic things. He came well referred and on the outside looked harmless...but the Word says we should be wise as serpents and harmless as doves and that's what our daughter was with him. Her gentle Christ like spirit and refusal to play religion, while deferring his humanist methods made an impression on this man. He recently was born into the family of God and led his whole family to the Lord. They are all going to church and learning about how to live for God.

Our daughter has never been better and the natural combined with the supernatural made her whole.
I prefer Christian doctors and psychologist's.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,247
25,716
113
#20
The problem with saying God's Word is sufficient (or any variation thereof),
is that for many seeking help, they do not accept the Word of God. It may
be the absolute truth that the problems in their life are a direct result of
their refusal of God's Word, but you cannot force it on people.