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Oh, I definitely saw what you see there! 
I firmly believe the first reaping is Jesus! It is the second reaping of people after that first reaping that seems so terrifying to me. I know it doesn't say what happens to those in the first reaping, but it sure does give a horrible picture of what happens to those in the second one. But I believe the first reaping is Him gathering together His own to meet Him in the air. (Of course, I understand you don't think this, but I wondered what you make of it.)
It is odd to read my bible and see that there seems to be evidence for both views and that sometimes it seems the righteous are taken first but other times it seems the wicked are taken first. And so what made sense to me was that some verses are speaking of a different timeframe than I originally thought. In other words, some of them speak of the first reaping and some of the second reaping.
Yes, I also agree that one of them is an angel. And there is other scripture to support this second reaping being an angel because it says He will send His angels to gather at the end.
I firmly believe the first reaping is Jesus! It is the second reaping of people after that first reaping that seems so terrifying to me. I know it doesn't say what happens to those in the first reaping, but it sure does give a horrible picture of what happens to those in the second one. But I believe the first reaping is Him gathering together His own to meet Him in the air. (Of course, I understand you don't think this, but I wondered what you make of it.)It is odd to read my bible and see that there seems to be evidence for both views and that sometimes it seems the righteous are taken first but other times it seems the wicked are taken first. And so what made sense to me was that some verses are speaking of a different timeframe than I originally thought. In other words, some of them speak of the first reaping and some of the second reaping.
Yes, I also agree that one of them is an angel. And there is other scripture to support this second reaping being an angel because it says He will send His angels to gather at the end.
D
Oh, I definitely saw what you see there! I firmly believe the first reaping is Jesus! It is the second reaping of people after that first reaping that seems so terrifying to me. I know it doesn't say what happens to those in the first reaping, but it sure does give a horrible picture of what happens to those in the second one. But I believe the first reaping is Him gathering together His own to meet Him in the air. (Of course, I understand you don't think this, but I wondered what you make of it.)
It is odd to read my bible and see that there seems to be evidence for both views and that sometimes it seems the righteous are taken first but other times it seems the wicked are taken first. And so what made sense to me was that some verses are speaking of a different timeframe than I originally thought. In other words, some of them speak of the first reaping and some of the second reaping.
Yes, I also agree that one of them is an angel. And there is other scripture to support this second reaping being an angel because it says He will send His angels to gather at the end.
I firmly believe the first reaping is Jesus! It is the second reaping of people after that first reaping that seems so terrifying to me. I know it doesn't say what happens to those in the first reaping, but it sure does give a horrible picture of what happens to those in the second one. But I believe the first reaping is Him gathering together His own to meet Him in the air. (Of course, I understand you don't think this, but I wondered what you make of it.)It is odd to read my bible and see that there seems to be evidence for both views and that sometimes it seems the righteous are taken first but other times it seems the wicked are taken first. And so what made sense to me was that some verses are speaking of a different timeframe than I originally thought. In other words, some of them speak of the first reaping and some of the second reaping.
Yes, I also agree that one of them is an angel. And there is other scripture to support this second reaping being an angel because it says He will send His angels to gather at the end.
By the way, I was literally STUNNED by GRACE on my birthday. Back into the Faith in Jesus Christ. Go read my Introduction of myself, if you haven't already. You might find it, well, interesting, at any rate. Its in the category of Intros. I will send you a message privately when I am ready to comment further, either later tonight or tomorrow.
Peace,
Diego
Oh, that sounds great, Diego! I always like to talk to a brother who likes to dig in but does not like nasty comments and fighting!! And the very fact that you said to you there seems to be more proof for the one view than the other showed me that you do see the oddities I saw too when I read Mathew and Rev. - that there appears at first to be confusing and conflicting things there that seem to support both views! I don't even care that you have the opposite view of me, but just that you don't get nasty about it. It's good to dig into these wonders but bad to condemn the other side for something that won't affect their belonging to Jesus! My goodness, it's all so mysterious that I wouldn't dare condemn anyone for their confusion and wonder at it all!
Going to read your intro now! Please take your time in replying. I'll look forward to hearing what you have to say and what you think.
It's good to dig into these wonders but bad to condemn the other side for something that won't affect their belonging to Jesus! My goodness, it's all so mysterious that I wouldn't dare condemn anyone for their confusion and wonder at it all!Going to read your intro now! Please take your time in replying. I'll look forward to hearing what you have to say and what you think.
What? The phrase 'falling away' by Apostle Paul in 2 Thess.2:3 is about a rapture???
That's got to be one of the silliest things I've ever heard about that verse.
"falling away" = Greek apostasia (Strong's 646), which is where our English word apostasy comes from.
Apostasy means to leave something once believed or practiced. It is a word showing rebellion against something originally followed. It is NOT about a secret rapture!
That's got to be one of the silliest things I've ever heard about that verse.
"falling away" = Greek apostasia (Strong's 646), which is where our English word apostasy comes from.
Apostasy means to leave something once believed or practiced. It is a word showing rebellion against something originally followed. It is NOT about a secret rapture!
What timing does this show that "day of the Lord" is?
2 Peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
KJV
And what does this show about that "day of the Lord" timing?
Isa 13:6-11
6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and He shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
KJV
Those Scriptures prove the "day of the Lord" only happens at the very end of this world. It actually ends... this present world.
How then could the great tribulation be after that, which involves the wicked in power on earth over all nations and peoples? When those above "day of the Lord" events occur, it will end the reign of Antichrist and the wicked upon this earth. All of man's works will be burned off this earth on that final day, just as Peter showed.
Paul gave another example of that day towards the end of Hebrews 12:
Heb 12:25-29
25 See that ye refuse not Him That speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused Him That spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from Him That speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now He hath promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven."
27 And this word, "Yet once more", signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
KJV
Lot of brethren in Christ simply do not know about that consuming fire event that's to happen on the very last day of this world, which is what the "day of the Lord" is about. It's that event which will usher us into the next world of Christ's 1,000 years reign. Man's works are going to be burned off the surface of this earth. That is why Apostle Paul taught that we who are still alive to that day when Jesus comes, will be 'changed' 'at the twinkling of an eye' (1 Cor.15). That is the same event of being "caught up" on that day which 1 Thess.4 is showing.
In 1 Thess.5, Paul spoke of the deceived that when they shall say, "Peace and safety", then "sudden destruction" will come upon them. That "sudden destruction" is that consuming fire event that's happen on the "day of the Lord". That means it is impossible to get any idea from 1 Thess.5 that would show Paul was pointing to a rapture prior to the great tribulation.
2 Peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
KJV
And what does this show about that "day of the Lord" timing?
Isa 13:6-11
6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and He shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
KJV
Those Scriptures prove the "day of the Lord" only happens at the very end of this world. It actually ends... this present world.
How then could the great tribulation be after that, which involves the wicked in power on earth over all nations and peoples? When those above "day of the Lord" events occur, it will end the reign of Antichrist and the wicked upon this earth. All of man's works will be burned off this earth on that final day, just as Peter showed.
Paul gave another example of that day towards the end of Hebrews 12:
Heb 12:25-29
25 See that ye refuse not Him That speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused Him That spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from Him That speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now He hath promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven."
27 And this word, "Yet once more", signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
KJV
Lot of brethren in Christ simply do not know about that consuming fire event that's to happen on the very last day of this world, which is what the "day of the Lord" is about. It's that event which will usher us into the next world of Christ's 1,000 years reign. Man's works are going to be burned off the surface of this earth. That is why Apostle Paul taught that we who are still alive to that day when Jesus comes, will be 'changed' 'at the twinkling of an eye' (1 Cor.15). That is the same event of being "caught up" on that day which 1 Thess.4 is showing.
In 1 Thess.5, Paul spoke of the deceived that when they shall say, "Peace and safety", then "sudden destruction" will come upon them. That "sudden destruction" is that consuming fire event that's happen on the "day of the Lord". That means it is impossible to get any idea from 1 Thess.5 that would show Paul was pointing to a rapture prior to the great tribulation.
Hi, thanks for answering.
It's a nice story.
I bet you could start your own church on what you just said.
Saying that the Lord through Paul, gives us another characteristic of the day of the Lord only makes me ask, "where do you find this in Scripture"?
Because it sounds like it's coming out of your head in order to fit what you believe rather than coming from Scripture.
It's a nice story.
I bet you could start your own church on what you just said.
Saying that the Lord through Paul, gives us another characteristic of the day of the Lord only makes me ask, "where do you find this in Scripture"?
Because it sounds like it's coming out of your head in order to fit what you believe rather than coming from Scripture.
I understand the hunger to do something for God. It'll drive you crazy if there is no outlet. Oh how i wanted to pastor(verb). Waiting for 20 years and wondering why God kept saying no. Now I understand but it was hard all those years of being back burnered.
If the church was really the church, my minstry would have been used along with everyone else's but thats not how the modern church is set up. Pay one guy to do it all. So i think i understand this guy. He's just trying to do what others do so he can have his ministry. Wasn't happening where he went to church. So Now he's trying to perpetuate the same error.
If the church was really the church, my minstry would have been used along with everyone else's but thats not how the modern church is set up. Pay one guy to do it all. So i think i understand this guy. He's just trying to do what others do so he can have his ministry. Wasn't happening where he went to church. So Now he's trying to perpetuate the same error.
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Well, I am definitely not the one who came up with this information, for it is God's word and very easy to understand, that is, except for those who have adopted a false teaching and are unwilling to look at the truth. Below is the scripture that I previously presented to you:
The gathering of the church, dead and living:
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words.
So above we have Paul's detailed account of the gathering of the church, dead and living. Then regarding that event, Paul continues with the following:
Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night."
Grammatically speaking, the "times and dates," which is also referred to as the day of the Lord, would have to refer back to the event of the gathering of the church. Therefore, how can you say that it is coming out of my head to fit what I believe, when the scripture is posted right in front of you. If you even have the basic understanding of sentence structure and grammar it should be very easy to understand. Since no other event is mentioned in the context, then the times and dates would have to be the times and dates of the gathering of the church, which Paul then refers to as the day of the Lord.
It's not a nice story, but scriptural truth.
The gathering of the church, dead and living:
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words.
So above we have Paul's detailed account of the gathering of the church, dead and living. Then regarding that event, Paul continues with the following:
Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night."
Grammatically speaking, the "times and dates," which is also referred to as the day of the Lord, would have to refer back to the event of the gathering of the church. Therefore, how can you say that it is coming out of my head to fit what I believe, when the scripture is posted right in front of you. If you even have the basic understanding of sentence structure and grammar it should be very easy to understand. Since no other event is mentioned in the context, then the times and dates would have to be the times and dates of the gathering of the church, which Paul then refers to as the day of the Lord.
It's not a nice story, but scriptural truth.
I believe in our gathering together before the time of testing coming on the whole world, but I have to agree with you here. I looked it up in many translations, including NLT and NASB and looked up the word in greek and it gives no indication that it means anything other than a revolt or falling away from the faith.
See video: apostasia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkAFsZCszCw