Wars Fighting & Weapons

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MadParrotWoman

Guest
#1
I wasn't quite sure where to post this but really I'm looking for the Biblical stance on this issue rather than people's opinions or at least if opinions are given I would ask for scripture to back this up please?

I've often wondered about what God thinks of war. I know that on both sides of the Atlantic most people hold their armed forces in high esteem - my own family has military background and before becoming a Christian this is where almost all of my charity contributions went - not so much now as there are other priorities as I see it...but anyway I digress; I do wonder if God approves of war, maybe He does in certain circumstances or maybe only in self-defense. I wouldn't imagine he would approve of starting wars yet in the OT He did overthrow communities He didn't approve of and gave His chosen the power to overcome them. We do seem to go into oil-rich land on a whim whilst ignoring poor places where genocide is rife.

Then there is the gun issue in the US...and I know I'm going into dangerous territory here lol but...as a Brit I do find it kind of strange how Christians love their guns. Now I know that some of you will immediately jump up and say "we need them for self-defense", well yes but it is more than that, it's a gun-loving culture - you guys don't just own guns you LOVE them, I have Christian (American) friends on facebook who collect guns and it's pretty much all they talk about. I know that many Americans see the British as oppressed because we don't have guns but when discussing this issue I can't seem to make them understand that we don't want to live like that - really we don't feel oppressed in that way. Anyway, I can't help wondering what God would make of it all.

Opinions backed-up with scripture where possible would be appreciated.
 

Utah

Banned
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
0
#2
We have the God-given right to defend ourselves.

Ecclesiastes 3 and Romans 12 both mention peace and war. :)
 
J

jennymae

Guest
#3
I wasn't quite sure where to post this but really I'm looking for the Biblical stance on this issue rather than people's opinions or at least if opinions are given I would ask for scripture to back this up please?

I've often wondered about what God thinks of war. I know that on both sides of the Atlantic most people hold their armed forces in high esteem - my own family has military background and before becoming a Christian this is where almost all of my charity contributions went - not so much now as there are other priorities as I see it...but anyway I digress; I do wonder if God approves of war, maybe He does in certain circumstances or maybe only in self-defense. I wouldn't imagine he would approve of starting wars yet in the OT He did overthrow communities He didn't approve of and gave His chosen the power to overcome them. We do seem to go into oil-rich land on a whim whilst ignoring poor places where genocide is rife.

Then there is the gun issue in the US...and I know I'm going into dangerous territory here lol but...as a Brit I do find it kind of strange how Christians love their guns. Now I know that some of you will immediately jump up and say "we need them for self-defense", well yes but it is more than that, it's a gun-loving culture - you guys don't just own guns you LOVE them, I have Christian (American) friends on facebook who collect guns and it's pretty much all they talk about. I know that many Americans see the British as oppressed because we don't have guns but when discussing this issue I can't seem to make them understand that we don't want to live like that - really we don't feel oppressed in that way. Anyway, I can't help wondering what God would make of it all.

Opinions backed-up with scripture where possible would be appreciated.
Well, I was raised with a gun in my hand, so to speak:p. I am very clear on how important the 2nd Amendment is because disarmed citizens can easily be tyrannized by an oppressive gov't. Besides, burglars will think things over before they get down to business. This is why I'm supporting the 2nd Amendment and the right to bear arms:).
 
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MadParrotWoman

Guest
#4
We have the God-given right to defend ourselves.

Ecclesiastes 3 and Romans 12 both mention peace and war. :)
Both these scriptures would appear to be telling us to leave it to God to judge our enemies - wouldn't you say Utah?
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#5
Being Norwegian I feel safer knowing most people don't have guns. Imagine if all the people who shared Breivik's views had guns *shudder*. There is a lot of bullying in Norwegian schools, and I think we'd end up with a lot of school shootings if we could just to to the nearest mall and buy a gun. (Yes, I've wanted to kill my bullies). I think most rich jews of Jesus' time wore swords? Yet I don't imagine there were as many sword killings are there are gun killings now, so I think people were better at anger management, which made self defense more .... actual self defense and not murder

As for the bible and war, it seems that God gave the orders to war or not war, nowdays, people seem to go to war over anything and everything, and I don't think God likes that.

When it comes to self defense and war ... well, we (Norway) will just have to hope our big brothers UK and US remain our friends or we're doomed if Putin gets too eager....
 
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MadParrotWoman

Guest
#6
Well, I was raised with a gun in my hand, so to speak:p. I am very clear on how important the 2nd Amendment is because disarmed citizens can easily be tyrannized by an oppressive gov't. Besides, burglars will think things over before they get down to business. This is why I'm supporting the 2nd Amendment and the right to bear arms:).
Well it was your guns that ultimately led to your independence so you had them from day1 really. Gun crime here is extremely rare, stabbings are much more common but you have to get pretty close to someone in order to stab them and you have a much better chance of survival. I'm not really questioning you guys having guns as defense, it's more your love affair with them I'm questioning - from God's perspective.
 
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MadParrotWoman

Guest
#7
Being Norwegian I feel safer knowing most people don't have guns. Imagine if all the people who shared Breivik's views had guns *shudder*. There is a lot of bullying in Norwegian schools, and I think we'd end up with a lot of school shootings if we could just to to the nearest mall and buy a gun. (Yes, I've wanted to kill my bullies). I think most rich jews of Jesus' time wore swords? Yet I don't imagine there were as many sword killings are there are gun killings now, so I think people were better at anger management, which made self defense more .... actual self defense and not murder

As for the bible and war, it seems that God gave the orders to war or not war, nowdays, people seem to go to war over anything and everything, and I don't think God likes that.

When it comes to self defense and war ... well, we (Norway) will just have to hope our big brothers UK and US remain our friends or we're doomed if Putin gets too eager....
I think WWIII would break out if that happened!
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#8
We have the God-given right to defend ourselves.

Ecclesiastes 3 and Romans 12 both mention peace and war. :)
Both these scriptures would appear to be telling us to leave it to God to judge our enemies - wouldn't you say Utah?
I think this falls under the same idea that everything is OK for us, but we should not do just anything, or everything.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#9
Being Norwegian I feel safer knowing most people don't have guns. Imagine if all the people who shared Breivik's views had guns *shudder*. There is a lot of bullying in Norwegian schools, and I think we'd end up with a lot of school shootings if we could just to to the nearest mall and buy a gun. (Yes, I've wanted to kill my bullies). I think most rich jews of Jesus' time wore swords? Yet I don't imagine there were as many sword killings are there are gun killings now, so I think people were better at anger management, which made self defense more .... actual self defense and not murder

As for the bible and war, it seems that God gave the orders to war or not war, nowdays, people seem to go to war over anything and everything, and I don't think God likes that.

When it comes to self defense and war ... well, we (Norway) will just have to hope our big brothers UK and US remain our friends or we're doomed if Putin gets too eager....
You don't think that every crook who wants a gun, has one... or can fairly readily get one? That, basically, leaves the good people defenseless against them.
 
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wwjd_kilden

Guest
#10
You don't think that every crook who wants a gun, has one... or can fairly readily get one? That, basically, leaves the good people defenseless against them.
What if I'd had a gun when I was bullied every day from 1st to 10th grade and no- one did anything to stop it?
 
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wwjd_kilden

Guest
#11
You don't think that every crook who wants a gun, has one... or can fairly readily get one? That, basically, leaves the good people defenseless against them.

Also, according to statistics, there are more murders by gun than self defence events
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
837
113
#12
Both these scriptures would appear to be telling us to leave it to God to judge our enemies - wouldn't you say Utah?
Mmmmkay, time to study both these scriptures contextually because they are each saying different things about war.

Ecclesiastes 3 is establishing God's sovereignty even in the realm of human action and there is no clear moral injunction. Building and tearing down, planting and uprooting, embracing and not embracing etc. In fact if there is a common thread throughout these actions, it's that they are each necessary at varying frequencies. Things a person must do in order to live/survive.

We are not absolved then from acting, but act with the recognition that without the Lord and his Providential hand, all is meaningless and going nowhere.

Romans 13 establishes the basic role of the state in the affairs of man. Reading verse four when there is a discussion of the sword, it appears to be establishing the Government's role in internal stability. The power over life and death is instituted in the interest of civil order.

So if we are to take these passages on their own merits we can make a couple of deductions:

1. We cannot derive a comprehensive Biblical view of war from them alone, because they are each saying different things about the subject.

2. If we had no other passages on the subject and church history to substantiate them, then we could only assume by the text itself that there is room for war.

All of this to say, these ain't gonna cut it.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
837
113
#13
Why must this turn into another European v. American gun control thread with nothing but idiotic gainsaying?

I love the spirit of MadParrotWoman's OP- let's look at the meaning of the scriptures first. I say this as an avid supporter of the 2nd Amendment.

I say this realizing I'll be ignored. That's happening a lot lately.
 
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wwjd_kilden

Guest
#14
Why must this turn into another European v. American gun control thread with nothing but idiotic gainsaying?

I love the spirit of MadParrotWoman's OP- let's look at the meaning of the scriptures first. I say this as an avid supporter of the 2nd Amendment.

I say this realizing I'll be ignored. That's happening a lot lately.

Ok. The bible

- Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. (Don't shoot them)
- If someone hits you on one cheek, turn the other (Don't bash in their brains)
 
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jennymae

Guest
#15
Also, according to statistics, there are more murders by gun than self defence events
You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. To Americans the right to bear arms is fundamental.

What really amazed me though, was the Norwegian gun culture. I was told that all European countries had banned guns etc etc, but in Norway guns were common as in the US. Turns out they are in Finland and Sweden as well, but those countries have a very strict gun legislation compared to Norway and the US.

Everybody owns guns here, up north at least, and even the ladies goes hunting. You can buy rifles, hand guns, silencers and everything. And whenever you're out hunting, there are no snakes and stuff:)
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
837
113
#16
Ok. The bible

- Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. (Don't shoot them)
- If someone hits you on one cheek, turn the other (Don't bash in their brains)
You're proof-texting. Stop it.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
837
113
#17
You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. To Americans the right to bear arms is fundamental.

What really amazed me though, was the Norwegian gun culture. I was told that all European countries had banned guns etc etc, but in Norway guns were common as in the US. Turns out they are in Finland and Sweden as well, but those countries have a very strict gun legislation compared to Norway and the US.

Everybody owns guns here, up north at least, and even the ladies goes hunting. You can buy rifles, hand guns, silencers and everything. And whenever you're out hunting, there are no snakes and stuff:)
Sounds like Seven Brides for Seven Brothers style livin'
 
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wwjd_kilden

Guest
#18
You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. To Americans the right to bear arms is fundamental.

What really amazed me though, was the Norwegian gun culture. I was told that all European countries had banned guns etc etc, but in Norway guns were common as in the US. Turns out they are in Finland and Sweden as well, but those countries have a very strict gun legislation compared to Norway and the US.

Everybody owns guns here, up north at least, and even the ladies goes hunting. You can buy rifles, hand guns, silencers and everything. And whenever you're out hunting, there are no snakes and stuff:)
Found the list. You guys are first place, we are 11th. but.... You can't walk around Oslo with a handgun under your shirt (unless you really want to see the inside of a prison) :p
 
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MadParrotWoman

Guest
#19
Ok. The bible

- Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. (Don't shoot them)
- If someone hits you on one cheek, turn the other (Don't bash in their brains)
Yeah I kind of read it like that too lol.
 
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MadParrotWoman

Guest
#20
Yeah I'm not questioning Americans carrying guns for protection at all - See post #6.