Does any of this conflict? Only if you want it to.

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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,229
6,526
113
#1
Isaiah's name, Yeshiyahu means God is Salvation.

Jesus' name, Yeshua, means the Salvation of God.

In the Old Testament God teaches that He is the Husband of His people.

In the New Testament we are taught that Jesus is the Husband of His people

In the Old Testament God says "I am your Salvation."

In the New Testament we learn that Jesus Christ is the Salvation of God, our Salvation.

In the Old Testament God declares He is our King.

In the New Testament, we are taught Jesus Christ is our King.

None of the above conflicts. If you need Scriptural proof, read Isaiah 9:6 where the prophecy of the Child mentions He will be called God Almighty, Everlasting Fasther, Ruler of Peace, Wonderful, Counselor and more.

Yes the Old and the New Testament do say the same thing. It is too bad many here cannot go back to the time right after Christ ascended to the Right Hand of Power to learn from the Tanakh as all new in Christ did learn.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#2
Isaiah's name, Yeshiyahu means God is Salvation.

Jesus' name, Yeshua, means the Salvation of God.

In the Old Testament God teaches that He is the Husband of His people.

In the New Testament we are taught that Jesus is the Husband of His people

In the Old Testament God says "I am your Salvation."

In the New Testament we learn that Jesus Christ is the Salvation of God, our Salvation.

In the Old Testament God declares He is our King.

In the New Testament, we are taught Jesus Christ is our King.

None of the above conflicts. If you need Scriptural proof, read Isaiah 9:6 where the prophecy of the Child mentions He will be called God Almighty, Everlasting Fasther, Ruler of Peace, Wonderful, Counselor and more.

Yes the Old and the New Testament do say the same thing. It is too bad many here cannot go back to the time right after Christ ascended to the Right Hand of Power to learn from the Tanakh as all new in Christ did learn.
Ummm, Jesus name is Jesus. :rolleyes:
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,229
6,526
113
#3
With all of these examples of the Old and the New Testament Books coinciding it becomes clear that all who believe are Israel, the Israel of God with its capital, New Jerusalem with Him at present to be brought down in His time.

I believe all of this understanding is joyous and filled with confirmation of our faith, the faith of Abraham as taught by Jesus Christ, amen.

Isaiah's name, Yeshiyahu means God is Salvation.

Jesus' name, Yeshua, means the Salvation of God.

In the Old Testament God teaches that He is the Husband of His people.

In the New Testament we are taught that Jesus is the Husband of His people

In the Old Testament God says "I am your Salvation."

In the New Testament we learn that Jesus Christ is the Salvation of God, our Salvation.

In the Old Testament God declares He is our King.

In the New Testament, we are taught Jesus Christ is our King.

None of the above conflicts. If you need Scriptural proof, read Isaiah 9:6 where the prophecy of the Child mentions He will be called God Almighty, Everlasting Fasther, Ruler of Peace, Wonderful, Counselor and more.

Yes the Old and the New Testament do say the same thing. It is too bad many here cannot go back to the time right after Christ ascended to the Right Hand of Power to learn from the Tanakh as all new in Christ did learn.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#4
Isaiah's name, Yeshiyahu means God is Salvation.

Jesus' name, Yeshua, means the Salvation of God.

In the Old Testament God teaches that He is the Husband of His people.

In the New Testament we are taught that Jesus is the Husband of His people

In the Old Testament God says "I am your Salvation."

In the New Testament we learn that Jesus Christ is the Salvation of God, our Salvation.

In the Old Testament God declares He is our King.

In the New Testament, we are taught Jesus Christ is our King.

None of the above conflicts. If you need Scriptural proof, read Isaiah 9:6 where the prophecy of the Child mentions He will be called God Almighty, Everlasting Fasther, Ruler of Peace, Wonderful, Counselor and more.

Yes the Old and the New Testament do say the same thing. It is too bad many here cannot go back to the time right after Christ ascended to the Right Hand of Power to learn from the Tanakh as all new in Christ did learn.
Does it conflict? Nope.

But, got to ask. (I'm pretty sure this isn't what you mean, but want to ask to make "pretty sure" turn into "certain.") Are you saying Isaiah is God is Salvation? As in Isaiah was God?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,229
6,526
113
#5
Dear Lord, no. Isaiah's name is completely different than that of Jesus, the name of Isaiah indicates that Jesus Christ is God, given just some meditation.

All of these comparisons are intended to reinforce true faith in the believers who come to talk the Lord, and it is wonderful. Thank you...God bless you.......


Does it conflict? Nope.

But, got to ask. (I'm pretty sure this isn't what you mean, but want to ask to make "pretty sure" turn into "certain.") Are you saying Isaiah is God is Salvation? As in Isaiah was God?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#6
With all of these examples of the Old and the New Testament Books coinciding it becomes clear that all who believe are Israel, the Israel of God with its capital, New Jerusalem with Him at present to be brought down in His time.

I believe all of this understanding is joyous and filled with confirmation of our faith, the faith of Abraham as taught by Jesus Christ, amen.
The church is the church and Israel is Israel. The church does not replace Israel. That being the case I'm not sure what you are driving at with your statements.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#7
The church is the church and Israel is Israel. The church does not replace Israel. That being the case I'm not sure what you are driving at with your statements.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
That the church IS Israel is clearly stated in Eph.2.11-22; 1 Peter 2.9; Gal 6.16; Rom 11.12-24. They are all one in Christ Jesus, their Messiah (Gal 3.28-29).
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#8
That the church IS Israel is clearly stated in Eph.2.11-22; 1 Peter 2.9; Gal 6.16; Rom 11.12-24. They are all one in Christ Jesus, their Messiah (Gal 3.28-29).
Eph 2:11:11 ¶ Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 ¶ For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Circumcision is not becoming Israel.

1Pet 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Not here either.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Nope this doesn't it either.

Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Receiving the promises does not make Gentiles into Jews. Israel is still not becoming the church and the church is not made into Israel. Poor exegesis on your part.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

All are saved by grace through Christ but this does not make the church to be Israel nor Israel to be the church. Joint partakers of God's grace without doubt but each inherits a blessing from God without diminishing the other.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#9
The church is the church and Israel is Israel. The church does not replace Israel. That being the case I'm not sure what you are driving at with your statements.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Say you have three kids, and then a fourth, fifth, and maybe even a sixth come along. Did the next kids replace your first kids? Jaume isn't saying the church replaced Israel. He's saying we're the same family.
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
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#10
God's plan has always been the same, one continual interwoven TAPESTRY -

one is either subject to the Covenants of Promise or they are not...

there are no 'GENTILE GATES' in The Temple in Revelation...
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#11
Say you have three kids, and then a fourth, fifth, and maybe even a sixth come along. Did the next kids replace your first kids? Jaume isn't saying the church replaced Israel. He's saying we're the same family.
Prophecy is given to Israel. Israel rejected the prophecy and now is blinded. Gentiles have inherited the blessing intended for Israel. One day God will restore Israel and the times of the Gentiles will be fulfilled. The blessings promised to Israel will be theirs.

My brothers kids are my family as well as my own.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Jul 1, 2016
2,639
22
0
#12
Like it or not, when all the smoke clears, God has ONE people. That people is called Israel.
This is not to say that the gentiles have no hope.
Gentiles have the opportunity to be grafted into the commonwealth of Israel, via the blood of Messiah.
Make no mistake, only Israel has the covenants.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#13
Like it or not, when all the smoke clears, God has ONE people. That people is called Israel.
This is not to say that the gentiles have no hope.
Gentiles have the opportunity to be grafted into the commonwealth of Israel, via the blood of Messiah.
Make no mistake, only Israel has the covenants.
Re 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Jul 4, 2015
648
6
0
#14
Why are you referring to the Tanakh which only has the Old Testament? Do you not know the New Testament is also from God?

Therefore i'll stick with my NASB bible instead of the Tanakh.

Jesus IS God and Jesus IS the Son of God!

We HAVE been grafted into God! We were grafted in after Israel rejected Jesus as their Lord and Savior. We now are Sons of God.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#15
Prophecy is given to Israel. Israel rejected the prophecy and now is blinded. Gentiles have inherited the blessing intended for Israel. One day God will restore Israel and the times of the Gentiles will be fulfilled. The blessings promised to Israel will be theirs.

My brothers kids are my family as well as my own.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
So God no longer saves any Israelis or Jews?
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#16
Like it or not, when all the smoke clears, God has ONE people. That people is called Israel.
This is not to say that the gentiles have no hope.
Gentiles have the opportunity to be grafted into the commonwealth of Israel, via the blood of Messiah.
Make no mistake, only Israel has the covenants.
Jesus is the covenant. His Father chose me. Jesus saved me. I'm grafted into God. "like it or not."
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#17
Jesus is the covenant. His Father chose me. Jesus saved me. I'm grafted into God. "like it or not."
I like it...it fits you fine young lady..your just a natural when it comes to grafting;)
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,229
6,526
113
#19
If you refer to my reference to the Tanakh, my reference is to the span of time when new converts to the faith of Abraham because of the Messiah had nothig other than the Tanakh as Holy Scripture from hich to learn of the prophets and the law which in trun point to Jesus Christ.

No one should deny any knowledge of Jesus Christ because it seems jewish. Jesus Christ was a Jew.

Why are you referring to the Tanakh which only has the Old Testament? Do you not know the New Testament is also from God?

Therefore i'll stick with my NASB bible instead of the Tanakh.

Jesus IS God and Jesus IS the Son of God!

We HAVE been grafted into God! We were grafted in after Israel rejected Jesus as their Lord and Savior. We now are Sons of God.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#20
Eph 2:11:11 ¶ Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.


'ye were -- but NOW'. see the parts I have emphasised. They have clearly become members of the commonwealth of Israel and share in the promises

14 ¶ For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
'they ae no more strangers and foreigners but fellowcitizens with the saints and of the household of God' .
Strangers and foreigners were the names given to non- Israelites. They had ceased to be that but were now 'fellow-citizens' in God's household. They were clearly now Israelites, adopted into Israel.


Circumcision is not becoming Israel.
Actually Israelites would have disagreed with you. Proselytes became Israelites when they were circumcised. But what has that to do with what I said?,

1Pet 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
This is a CLEAR reference to Exodus 19.5-6. The Christians were seen becoming part of the holy nation, God's peculiar people.


Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Nope this doesn't it either.
LOL Open your eyes.

Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
The olive tree IS Israel (jer 11.16). those who were grafted in became a part of Israel.


Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Abraham's seed to whom the promises were made was Israel.

All these promises show that the church was Israel. Jesus formed a new congregation of Israel. New Israel was the foundation of the church, and was ALL Jews. At that time Israel and the church was synonymous. Gentile proselytes were then gathered in in true Israelite fashion. Why do you think the circumcision crisis arose?. If they were not seen as becoming Israelites no one would ever have worried about circumcision.

Paul accepted they needed to be circumcised, but said that they had been circumcised IN CHRIST.

Your theory makes the Jews who rejected the Messiah the true Israel. But they were rejected FROM Israel.