grace to freely live in sin ? or the Grace of God ?

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Jun 1, 2016
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romans 3: 21-26 " But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith inh Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are JUSTIFIED freely BY HIS GRACE through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,i through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the SINS COMMITED BEFOREHAND unpunished— he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus."




it is the GRACE of God that JUSTIFIES, and not mans "unwarranted favor" grace that has no rule or Law, but the grace of God that brings obedience, that is the grace that justifies and offers salvation. so again, to say "were not discussing grace but justification, leaves you needing to understand what grace actually IS and actually DOES which is why, i speak of Grace in regards to justification. Grace is not saying " jesus did right so now you dont have to" that is a distortion. it is saying "Jesus taught us the truth died to forgive our sins, and enabled us to Live as He commands us to Live THROUGH and because of the grace shown on the cross, that justifies us. it is not a freedom to live how we want without guilt, but a call to seek God with all our hearts and learn the gospel of Jesus Christ , the truth and the grace he taught and gave and also gives FOR the very purpose of teaching obedience to His followers, that leads to repentance from sins, and righteous living ALL because of Jesus sacrifice that HAS to be honored, lest it condemn those who reject it. not because we were good, But because of His goodness and kindness to us he taught us to live right and live eternally with glad hearts.


titus 2:11-15 "For the GRACE OF GOD has appeared that OFFERS SALVATION to all people. IT TEACHES US to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions (repentance of sin), AND to LIVE SELF CONTROLLED, UPRIGHT, and GODLY LIVES (righteousness through obedience* ) in this present age, (now) while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Our Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us, TO redeem us from all wickedness AND to PURIFY for himself A PEOPLE that are his very own, EAGER TO DO what is good."


* romans 6:16 "Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to OBEDIENCE, which LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS?"


again paul says


ephesians 2:8-10 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is NOT OF YOUSELVES, it is the GIFT OF GOD- not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, CREATED in Christ Jesus TO DO good works, which God prepared in advance for us TO DO."


Grace of God that teaches repentance and righteousness, and faith that " believes that God exists, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him." Faith comes first, if you believe the gospel it will make us new. but without the whole gospel, which fully includes the teachings and commands of Jesus Christ, no one will be made new. You of course must believe He died to forgive your sin under the old covenant, but you also HAVE to believe that He spoke the truth from God to all mankind. that includes the many times he makes clear " you have to do what im teaching you" in His goodness, the gospel is not only forgiveness, but redemption. it not only forgives sin, it takes it away or "circumcises it" in the inner parts of us because if a person is free of sinful thoughts, motives, desires ect thier actions will be right and sin will no longer be thier master leading them to death.


the purification comes when you stop ommiting what Jesus teaches, and saying " the gospel is only that He died and was resurrected. that part, forgives the old covenant and the sins all have commited under that covenant. thats why we are baptized into His death to die to the sinner condemned under the old covenant. so that we can live a new life according to the new covenant, the gospel as taught by Jesus and all of His apostles.


romans 6:3-4 "Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life."


the simplified question is this : did Jesus come suffer and die, so that we are forgiven and can continue living in disobedience? or did He come and suffer and die, and rise to Life, so that we can live right before God through the power of His spirit?


one doctrine exalts the word "grace" meaning no condition upon how we Live after accepting Gods sacrifice. the other Doctrine exalts Jesus Christ as both Savior, and Lord of our lives. One leads us to return to sin, the other leads to repentance and eternal Life. the choice belongs to every believer. remembering this fact. the gospel teachings, the new covenant laws provide forgiveness through obeying Jesus who said " forgive and you will be forgiven" so it isnt as if from day one, you have to perfectly obey , what is required is to truly submit in humilty offering your life to God, accepting that He is still telling all men to repent of sin, and Live according to His sons commands and teachings. to twist this into saving ones self or making it a boast is foolishness because it is impossible to be forgiven under the old covenant, unless you accept Jesus "work" on the cross. so that fact is what excludes any boast for without Jesus all men were already lost without Hope. This leaves the eternal song " worthy is the Lamb" in the hearts of all who are being saved through His atonement.


the fallacy of teaching that we arent taught to obey His commands, denies Jesus Himself, because it is Jesus Himself who stressed this in His own teachings. the beginning of obedience is to accept that Jesus Christ spoke the truth , and that He taught repentance and obedience in so many ways in the gospel. when you accept that Jesus spoke the truth, obedience will come through applying the gospel teaching to your life, and again, forgiveness is plentiful by obeying what HE taught about forgiving others, and the pronmise He gave concerning obeying that principle. there is no doctrine that will ever teach that man isnt to repent of sin, and obey the right commands of Jesus that are for Life eternal. all of this is through His Love for us, but that does not mean now we have no obligation to Him, a full obligation to follow where He leads through His word.


do not be deceived, by strange and wierd interpretations that omit Jesus words, and all the bible says about repentance and righteousness., sin is death, obedience is Life in Christ. To do the things God created us to do, is no boast or self righteousness, it is accepting the gift of righteousness, SO THAT we live righteous. we arent imputed righteousness so we have an excuse to not repent and live right thats just foolishness. Accept the Savior, and accept the Lord and He will do all that He promised in you, so that you can do all you are appointed to do and live for eternity with Him.




All glory, honor, praise and majesty belong to God through His only Son who forgave us, and also made us new through faith in His living and enduring and powerful word.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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I'm glad to see this is just a copy/paste, but it still seems you have been sampling too much of the kool-aide served by some here. LOL
 
Jun 1, 2016
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I'm glad to see this is just a copy/paste, but it still seems you have been sampling too much of the kool-aide served by some here. LOL

thanks for the insult and slander willie lol its always a blessing
 
Nov 22, 2015
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The true grace of God "brings" salvation to us and it instructs us to deny ungodliness and to live righteously and godly in this world..

Titus 2:11-12 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

[SUP]12 [/SUP] instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,

Of course we obey the Lord and grace and legalism do not mix.

Legalism - in the biblical sense of the word - is any attitude or belief that human merit can produce, prove, or preserve for one-self an acceptable standing before God.

Whenever our assurance of salvation rests upon our "performance" rather then upon the "promises" of God that are Yes and Amen in Christ - we are in big trouble - we have fallen from grace to rely on our own self-effort so grace does not flow to us.

Obedience in the New Covenant:

In loving God and others as Jesus says is the greatest commandment in the law in relation to obedience.

Obedience to me is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man. It is not the root. It's the love of God and the life of Christ manifesting Himself in and through us to a hurt and dying world and to our fellow brethren.

It is not something "we do to be" but stems from something we "already are now" in Him and so we "do love" as we grow in our awareness of His love for us.

We obey our Lord and Father because we know Him and trust in His character and obedience is not a set of rules that we follow, but a natural flow of the life of God in us built on a love-trust relationship. When you know the love of God for us we will obey Him naturally and effortlessly.

When our minds are renewed to the truth that is in Christ - we obey from our hearts effortlessly. It's a fruit of being in Christ.

I maintain that obedience is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man that is created in Christ. When we teach the grace of God this enables us to bear His fruit in and through us to reflect the true kingdom of the love and grace of God to a hurt and dying world.

Teach and preach who believers are in Christ because we are in union in one spirit with the Lord Jesus and they will "awake to righteousness" that is in them because they are a new creation in Him and sin not and walk in the good works that God has prepared for them.
 
Feb 26, 2015
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Yes we can sin willingly, and yes we will sin.

BUT, IF you walk with Jesus His Blood has already cleansed you of all you sins.

We must remember its NOT about our sins anymore. Its about walking in Faith with Jesus as our Lord and Savior. We have been cleansed by His Blood for all the sin we are yet to commit.

Does this mean you can sin all we want? No. But if we do sin God forgives us for this sin.

Its about Grace and Faith. Its not about trying to keep ourselves sinless.
 
T

torus

Guest
#6
Actually, it is more like grace to have been saved from, and to keep from getting trapped/ ruled again, by sin.