JP teaches "self righteousness" and instant "perfectionism"

[InSpiritInTruth]

I recently posted a thread about the process of fighting the good fight of faith, and how by the power of God's Spirit we can resist temptation and sin, and also bring every thought into the obedience of Christ, and also be purified in our hearts and minds by the same Spirit. But this thread like many of mine was met with great resistance and anger by those who follow a certain "cult" following and the teachings of Joseph Prince. Because I preach against sin and for an obedient walk of faith empowered by God I am usually falsely labeled as a "sinless perfectionist" or preaching D.I.Y. "self righteousness".

But here is the funny part, when looking through some of the false teachings of JP I found this quote of his....

Colossians 2 tells us we are already made perfect in Christ. We don’t work towards perfection. Christ has made us perfect from the Cross. The minute you believe you are made perfect in Christ. You work from your perfection not to it.” 38

What happened to the process of first being made a babe in Christ by spiritual rebirth, and the ongoing process of sanctification and purification, working toward that perfection by the trans formative power of God's Holy Spirit? This is why so many of his followers are so opposed to the idea of actually being set free from sin and heart purity, because that process has been totally removed in JP's teaching.

Basically JP's false teaching just says you need to have "right thinking" not that there is an actual spiritual transformation and rebirth that set's you free from sin and gives you the empowerment to purify your hearts and minds. His teaching is nothing more than declaring yourself as righteous, when in reality there was never a spiritual rebirth that took place.

So by not experiencing an actual rebirth in Christ that transform ones heart and mind, they just proclaim themselves to be "perfect" and "righteous".

That my friends is the true definition of "self righteousness" when a person declares themselves to be something they truly are not, their evil works prove they are not made righteous in Christ.

For those who want to know the many deceptions of this false teacher, here is the link...Joseph Prince exposed, false teachings of Joseph Prince

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Here is another example of JP's false teaching that is all about "right thinking" or basically "imagining yourself" to be something you really are not....

the power to overcome sin is found in knowing that you are righteous. When a believer is struggling with sin, it is a case of mistaken identity. He thinks that he is still a dirty rotten sinner…Believers are struggling with sin today precisely because they do not realize that they are righteous.

So there is no true conversion or transformation with them, it is only "imagining yourself" as "perfect" and "righteous". What a mind game and brainwashing tactic he has managed to pull over on these poor misled souls.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is another example of JP's false teaching that is all about "right thinking" or basically "imagining yourself" to be something you really are not....



So there is no true conversion or transformation with them, it is only "imagining yourself" as "perfect" and "righteous". What a mind game and brainwashing tactic he has managed to pull over on these poor misled souls.

Complete nonsense as usual. You obviously do not know what happened to the believer when they came to Christ which is why you have to try to deceive people with your works-based salvation - self-righteousness/holiness religion which is contrary tot he gospel of the grace of Christ. And consequently your need to slander others that expose your religion for what it it really is.

This is what believers in the grace of our Lord Jesus have to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"

We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....

However there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.

God sets apart ( sanctifies ) our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.

Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

( who are sanctified this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )

Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive ).

Perfect tense =The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. This is continuously happening in the present.

Passive means something is being done to you - you are not doing it.

Acts 26:17 (NASB)

[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' (perfect passive )

It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is in us.

There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior.

1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;

[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

 

[breno785au]

Resisting temptation whilst renewing your mind according to the spirit go hand in hand.

If our sins are forgiven and removed, what is left?

 

[Grace777x70]

I recently posted a thread about the process of fighting the good fight of faith, and how by the power of God's Spirit we can resist temptation and sin, and also bring every thought into the obedience of Christ, and also be purified in our hearts and minds by the same Spirit. But this thread like many of mine was met with great resistance and anger by those who follow a certain "cult" following and the teachings of Joseph Prince. Because I preach against sin and for an obedient walk of faith empowered by God I am usually falsely labeled as a "sinless perfectionist" or preaching D.I.Y. "self righteousness".

But here is the funny part, when looking through some of the false teachings of JP I found this quote of his....



What happened to the process of first being made a babe in Christ by spiritual rebirth, and the ongoing process of sanctification and purification, working toward that perfection by the trans formative power of God's Holy Spirit? This is why so many of his followers are so opposed to the idea of actually being set free from sin and heart purity, because that process has been totally removed in JP's teaching.

Basically JP's false teaching just says you need to have "right thinking" not that there is an actual spiritual transformation and rebirth that set's you free from sin and gives you the empowerment to purify your hearts and minds. His teaching is nothing more than declaring yourself as righteous, when in reality there was never a spiritual rebirth that took place.

So by not experiencing an actual rebirth in Christ that transform ones heart and mind, they just proclaim themselves to be "perfect" and "righteous".

That my friends is the true definition of "self righteousness" when a person declares themselves to be something they truly are not, their evil works prove they are not made righteous in Christ.

For those who want to know the many deceptions of this false teacher, here is the link...Joseph Prince exposed, false teachings of Joseph Prince

Here is what the scriptures say about Christians being righteous because of Christ. - this is why you need in your religion to maintain your own righteousness which is NOT the gospel of the grace of Christ....and your constant need to slander those that do teach the true grace of Christ.

Looks like it is time for "scripture" again in the area of righteousness. Why do people fight so much against the work of Christ and instead live by their own humanistic thoughts? Why don't we believe in Christ? Why are we continually denying Him?

I can give you guys what the scriptures say about righteousness and believers that are "in Christ" now. Everyone can believe what they want too.

The understanding of the new creation in Christ and the new identity of the believer is paramount to living the true Christian life.


Here it says our spirit ( the inner person that is a new creation in Christ ) is alive because of righteousness that it is it.

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin,yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Here righteousness is a gift - you don't earn it.

Romans 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

We have grace reigning in our lives because of righteousness in us.

Romans 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21[/SUP] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Here righteousness comes by faith.

Romans 9:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Here when we believe - we are righteousness.

Romans 10:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We are in the kingdom of God.

Romans 14:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17[/SUP] For the kingdom of God ( Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within you..He might know a thing or two ) is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Here it says that God made us righteousness in Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This says we have become the righteousness of Christ ( this is called a dependent clause in the greek - it is determined as fulfilled because Christ became sin )

2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Believers are called righteousness.

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?


Here it is saying that "righteousness comes by Christ".

Galatians 2:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Here we have the breastplate of righteousness - which is the armor of God that we are to be strong in.

Ephesians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, andhaving on the breastplate of righteousness;

This talks about the new man in Christ - the new creation.

Ephesians 4:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

Ok..that's enough..but there are tons more....

 

[Grace777x70]

We that are in Christ have the Lord's righteousness now in our inner man that is in Christ.

Isaiah 45:24-25 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "They will say of Me, 'Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame.

[SUP]25 [/SUP] "In the LORD all the offspring of Israel Will be justified and will glory."

Here is one more from the OT - Isaiah 54: 17 of the Lord telling what the believer would have because of what Christ did in Isaiah 53 when He died on the cross to take away our sin and make us righteous in Him.

Isaiah 54:17

[SUP]17 [/SUP] "No weapon that is formed against you will prosper; And every tongue that accuses you in judgment you will condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, And their righteousness is from Me," declares the LORD.

Folks we have a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ!

Ephesians 3:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Another attack thread, Lets please let this thread die the death it deserves. This is not a JP discussion forum, It is a bible discussion forum, Lets please try to discuss the word.

to those who may be new, I do not follow JP. I do not even know what he teaches, I have never (except for a few times to check some things where I was directed to something written by JP to get context) So the author's accusation he was attacked by JP cultists is just another lie.

This poster seems to think if you disagree with him, you are a cultist. He is the cultist,, and has his followingn on here, Time to put them on ignore and stop following their attempts to falsly accuse others.

 

[BenFTW]

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Resisting temptation whilst renewing your mind according to the spirit go hand in hand.

If our sins are forgiven and removed, what is left?

Their false belief is exposed here in this saying...

The minute you believe you are made perfect in Christ. You work from your perfection not to it.” 38

When a person is born again of God's Spirit they are not instantly made perfect, there is a purification process. If they were instantly made perfect, they would in word and deed also be "perfect", meaning they would not still be living in sin and having impure thoughts. But by their own confession of not being able to cease from sin, then we see the strong delusion they are under proclaiming themselves to be "perfect" and "righteous" even though their sinful thoughts, words and actions prove themselves to be reprobates.

Proclaiming yourself to be "perfect" and "righteous" when you are not is truly "self righteousness".

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Their whole cult following is based on just "imagining" yourself to be something they really are not. What a strong delusion!

 

[miknik5]

Philippians 4 is sufficient

 

[miknik5]

Their whole cult following is based on just "imagining" yourself to be something they really are not. What a strong delusion!

Not yet for you to charge any

But that strong delusion will come

Thank HIM that HE convicts us when we sin...HE treats us as legitimate children

For the alternative wouldn't be very good at all

 

[miknik5]

I'll repeat it again

Thank HIM that HE (not you) convicts us of sin so that we will not be condemned with the world

Therefore don't worry about HIS CHILDREN

Thise HE loves HE rebukes

GOD is a launderer and a purifier and a pruner and HE refines us do that our faith more precious than gold though tried in the fire will prove genuine resulting in HIS PRAISE AND GLORY

 

[miknik5]

Scriptural, yes?

 

[Grace777x70]

Another attack thread, Lets please let this thread die the death it deserves. This is not a JP discussion forum, It is a bible discussion forum, Lets please try to discuss the word.

to those who may be new, I do not follow JP. I do not even know what he teaches, I have never (except for a few times to check some things where I was directed to something written by JP to get context) So the author's accusation he was attacked by JP cultists is just another lie.

This poster seems to think if you disagree with him, you are a cultist. He is the cultist,, and has his followingn on here, Time to put them on ignore and stop following their attempts to falsly accuse others.

I agree....

I will leave this thread with this scripture about those who believe in Christ. The new creation in Christ is a mystery to the self-righteousness/holiness mindset which is why they have the need to disparage the gospel of the grace of Christ - it exposes their religion.

Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

"For all time" - sounds like a long time to me....

"perfected" is in the Greek tense that is called perfect tense ( appropriate eh?..lol )

Perfect tense =The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. This is continuously happening in the present. ( hence the term - perfected "for all time" in Heb.10:14 )

Greek word meaning for "perfected" in Heb.10:14

4896. [FONT="Galatia Sil" !important]τελειόω [FONT="Gentium" !important]teleioō[/FONT] verb

Make perfect, complete, finish, accomplish; bring to completion, perfect.

Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Sigma-Omega.
[/FONT]

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Scriptural, yes?

Yes, JP and his cult followers have been given over to a spirit of perversion...

Job 9:20
If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.

 

[UnderGrace]

Their false belief is exposed here in this saying...

When a person is born again of God's Spirit they are not instantly made perfect, there is a purification process. If they were instantly made perfect, they would in word and deed also be "perfect", meaning they would not still be living in sin and having impure thoughts. But by their own confession of not being able to cease from sin, then we see the strong delusion they are under proclaiming themselves to be "perfect" and "righteous" even though their sinful thoughts, words and actions prove themselves to be reprobates.

Proclaiming yourself to be "perfect" and "righteous" when you are not is truly "self righteousness".

What happens from God's eternal perspective when we are born again, please clarify you thoughts?

 

[Angela53510]

I recently posted a thread about the process of fighting the good fight of faith, and how by the power of God's Spirit we can resist temptation and sin, and also bring every thought into the obedience of Christ, and also be purified in our hearts and minds by the same Spirit. But this thread like many of mine was met with great resistance and anger by those who follow a certain "cult" following and the teachings of Joseph Prince. Because I preach against sin and for an obedient walk of faith empowered by God I am usually falsely labeled as a "sinless perfectionist" or preaching D.I.Y. "self righteousness".

But here is the funny part, when looking through some of the false teachings of JP I found this quote of his....


What happened to the process of first being made a babe in Christ by spiritual rebirth, and the ongoing process of sanctification and purification, working toward that perfection by the trans formative power of God's Holy Spirit? This is why so many of his followers are so opposed to the idea of actually being set free from sin and heart purity, because that process has been totally removed in JP's teaching.

Basically JP's false teaching just says you need to have "right thinking" not that there is an actual spiritual transformation and rebirth that set's you free from sin and gives you the empowerment to purify your hearts and minds. His teaching is nothing more than declaring yourself as righteous, when in reality there was never a spiritual rebirth that took place.

So by not experiencing an actual rebirth in Christ that transform ones heart and mind, they just proclaim themselves to be "perfect" and "righteous".

That my friends is the true definition of "self righteousness" when a person declares themselves to be something they truly are not, their evil works prove they are not made righteous in Christ.

For those who want to know the many deceptions of this false teacher, here is the link...Joseph Prince exposed, false teachings of Joseph Prince

So I promised I would stay out of these futile arguments, but this post is so right on, I had to speak against the lies from other people.

First, ISIT says:

"What happened to the process of first being made a babe in Christ by spiritual rebirth, and the ongoing process of sanctification and purification, working toward that perfection by the trans formative power of God's Holy Spirit? This is why so many of his followers are so opposed to the idea of actually being set free from sin and heart purity, because that process has been totally removed in JP's teaching."

Hmm! Exactly what the Holy Spirit has taught me and many others! Justification, sanctification, and glorification when we see Christ! Not this "instant" perfectionism. This is far, far from works! Or losing your salvation!

This is an excellent post, once again pointing out the absolute heresies of Joseph Prince!

NO, we are not saved or made perfect instantly, by right thinking!

How can anyone miss the words of the NT, which stays that we must be born again, BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD!

"Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." John 3:5-6

"Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart, 23 since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;" 1 Peter 1:22-23

Please note the word obedience to the truth, in 1 Peter 1:22. Peter is addressing Christians who are born again, who have been changed by "the living and abiding work of God." I do believe obedience comes out of that truth, without it, we are not bearing fruit that we are saved, and probably are not saved!

Nothing about "right thinking" and certainly nothing about being perfectly sanctified! That is a lie from the devil, without Scriptural support.

Grace777x77 said:

We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....

However there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.

The above is what is called - a contradiction! We are NOT perfectly sanctified now. Although we are positionally justified - (Romans 5:1), there is no where in the Bible it says we are perfectly sanctified, except in bad translations!

"[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]μιᾷ γὰρ προσφορᾷ τετελείωκεν εἰς τὸ διηνεκὲς τοὺς [/FONT]ἁγιαζομένους[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]." Hebrews 10:14[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Hagiazomenos - [/FONT]ἁγιαζομένους [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]is the Present Passive Participle. However, I have no idea where this translation of yours "are sanctified" comes from - but the actual translation needs to have the passive in it -meaning like the following versions, "those who are being sanctified!" Not just "are sanctified" which would be an imperfect tense!

"[/FONT]Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

( who are sanctified this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )"
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
?? Version?? A simplified version, perhaps?

"[/FONT]For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." Hebrews 10:14 NIV

"For by a single offering [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]he has perfected for all time those who are being made holy.[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]" Hebrews 10:14 ESV[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]"The ones being sanctified" Hebrews 10:14b USB interlinear translation.[/FONT]


[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Yes, the sanctification is done by God. But is the passive used here to signify we are perfect right now in our sanctification?

"In fact, when God is the obvious agent of the transforming process, Greek used the passive to show that it was the theological passive or the divine passive. Further, this "divine passive" seems to occur frequently throughout the NT. That God is behind the scenes is self-evidently part of the world view of the NT writers."

Greek Grammar: Beyond the Basics by Daniel Wallace pg 437-438.

This passage is about God and how his sacrifice is the means and the method that God uses to work on us to perfect us. But no, that perfection will not be complete until we see Jesus face to face.

[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]"[/FONT]For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known." 1 Cor. 13:12

"Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]" 1 John 3:2[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]When will we be like Jesus? When he returns![/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Why will we be like Jesus? Because we will see him face to face, as he is. But right now, a glass darkly, or a mirror dimly.

Bruce, I think you seriously need to take some Greek courses because you constantly post things that are only half true. In this case, it is the present passive, but that translation is wrong, and that is something you would know instantly if you understood Greek. Just my advice.

As for the Acts 27:18 passage you quoted here:

[/FONT]

Acts 26:17 (NASB)

[SUP]18 [/SUP]to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' (perfect passive )

It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is in us."

"ἀνοῖξαι ὀφθαλμοὺς αὐτῶν, τοῦ [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]ἐπιστρέψαι ἀπὸ σκότους εἰς φῶς καὶ τῆς ἐξουσίας τοῦ Σατανᾶ ἐπὶ τὸν θεόν, τοῦ λαβεῖν αὐτοὺς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν καὶ κλῆρον ἐν τοῖς ἡγιασμένοις πίστει τῇ εἰς ἐμέ." Acts 26:18[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Not one of the better translations translates this perfect passive as "having been sanctified," although one might think that was correct, with a superficial understanding of Greek.[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]In fact, Perfect, in this case, emphasizes the state or condition. So looking at reliable translations:

[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]"[/FONT]to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me." Acts 26:18 NIV

"to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’" Acts 26:18 ESV

So it is NOT about something which was done in the past, but rather a statement of the process. In fact, it is part of the witness of Paul before King Agrippa, and his [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]testimony of the call Jesus had on his life. (Please don't pull verses out of context!) The implication is clear, that while perfection is in the future, at this point, he is a member of those called "saints" in that positionally they are justified, and in the process of being sanctified. [/FONT]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So I promised I would stay out of these futile arguments, but this post is so right on, I had to speak against the lies from other people.

First, ISIT says:

"What happened to the process of first being made a babe in Christ by spiritual rebirth, and the ongoing process of sanctification and purification, working toward that perfection by the trans formative power of God's Holy Spirit? This is why so many of his followers are so opposed to the idea of actually being set free from sin and heart purity, because that process has been totally removed in JP's teaching."

Hmm! Exactly what the Holy Spirit has taught me and many others! Justification, sanctification, and glorification when we see Christ! Not this "instant" perfectionism. This is far, far from works! Or losing your salvation!

This is an excellent post, once again pointing out the absolute heresies of Joseph Prince!

NO, we are not saved or made perfect instantly, by right thinking!

How can anyone miss the words of the NT, which stays that we must be born again, BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD!

"Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." John 3:5-6

"Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart,23 since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;" 1 Peter 1:22-23

Please note the word obedience to the truth, in 1 Peter 1:22. Peter is addressing Christians who are born again, who have been changed by "the living and abiding work of God." I do believe obedience comes out of that truth, without it, we are not bearing fruit that we are saved, and probably are not saved!

Nothing about "right thinking" and certainly nothing about being perfectly sanctified! That is a lie from the devil, without Scriptural support.

Grace777x77 said:


The above is what is called - a contradiction! We are NOT perfectly sanctified now. Although we are positionally justified - (Romans 5:1), there is no where in the Bible it says we are perfectly sanctified, except in bad translations!

"μιᾷ γὰρ προσφορᾷ τετελείωκεν εἰς τὸ διηνεκὲς τοὺς ἁγιαζομένους." Hebrews 10:14

Hagiazomenos - ἁγιαζομένους is the Present Passive Participle. However, I have no idea where this translation of yours "are sanctified" comes from - but the actual translation needs to have the passive in it -meaning like the following versions, "those who are being sanctified!" Not just "are sanctified" which would be an imperfect tense!

"Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

( who are sanctified this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )"

?? Version?? A simplified version, perhaps?

"For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." Hebrews 10:14 NIV

"For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being made holy." Hebrews 10:14 ESV

"The ones being sanctified" Hebrews 10:14b USB interlinear translation.


Yes, the sanctification is done by God. But is the passive used here to signify we are perfect right now in our sanctification?

"In fact, when God is the obvious agent of the transforming process, Greek used the passive to show that it was the theological passive or the divine passive. Further, this "divine passive" seems to occur frequently throughout the NT. That God is behind the scenes is self-evidently part of the world view of the NT writers."

Greek Grammar: Beyond the Basics by Daniel Wallace pg 437-438.

This passage is about God and how his sacrifice is the means and the method that God uses to work on us to perfect us. But no, that perfection will not be complete until we see Jesus face to face.

"For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known." 1 Cor. 13:12

"Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appearswe shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2

When will we be like Jesus? When he returns!

Why will we be like Jesus? Because we will see him face to face, as he is. But right now, a glass darkly, or a mirror dimly.

Bruce, I think you seriously need to take some Greek courses because you constantly post things that are only half true. In this case, it is the present passive, but that translation is wrong, and that is something you would know instantly if you understood Greek. Just my advice.

As for the Acts 27:18 passage you quoted here:

"ἀνοῖξαι ὀφθαλμοὺς αὐτῶν, τοῦ ἐπιστρέψαι ἀπὸ σκότους εἰς φῶς καὶ τῆς ἐξουσίας τοῦ Σατανᾶ ἐπὶ τὸν θεόν, τοῦ λαβεῖν αὐτοὺς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν καὶ κλῆρον ἐν τοῖς ἡγιασμένοις πίστει τῇ εἰς ἐμέ." Acts 26:18

Not one of the better translations translates this perfect passive as "having been sanctified," although one might think that was correct, with a superficial understanding of Greek.

In fact, Perfect, in this case, emphasizes the state or condition. So looking at reliable translations:

"to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me." Acts 26:18 NIV

"to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’" Acts 26:18 ESV

So it is NOT about something which was done in the past, but rather a statement of the process. In fact, it is part of the witness of Paul before King Agrippa, and his testimony of the call Jesus had on his life. (Please don't pull verses out of context!) The implication is clear, that while perfection is in the future, at this point, he is a member of those called "saints" in that positionally they are justified, and in the process of being sanctified.

I wish you would have stayed away, Because I have yet to hear anyone in this room teach other than this view. Sanctification is a process. As GRACE777 and many others have posted over and over, God has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. They teach sanctification. Unlike ISIT and others who are tryign to judge, WHo try to make sanctification and justification a means to salvation. It must be earned. Sadly, You have taken a legalistic view of salvation over a grace view.. Which may use words different than you do. But unless you have changed view, teaches the same gospel you do.

it is people like ISIT lieing, saying others do not teach sanctification, and a person will not change their lifestyle and want to flee from sin. It is not reality. No one teaches this. (well they do. because they have watered down the law. There sin is ok.. so in reality, they are excusing their own sin)

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

[h=1]2 Timothy 2:19-22[/h] [SUP]19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.