Globe or Snowglobe

[Bladerunner]

And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. Genesis 1:20

And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. Genesis 1:6
And God called the firmament Heaven. Genesis 1:8



1 Peter 3:15
15 But sanctify the LORD in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

very good Zmouth: Don't forget Genesis 1:7 where he divided the water from under to above.

The main point I have tried to make is that if one takes the Bible seriously and truthfully, one cannot throw away a part of it because they do not believe that part. (i.e. Jesus entered a room where the door was locked and had four walls without walking through the walls. Just appeared...) Is this unbelievable as well?

A full 45% of our college students that believe in God, change their choice when confronted by the liberal secular studies they HAVE to go through. The problem is that we do not teach the Bible literally.
Most Churches stay away from teaching Genesis literally because of verses like Gen 1:7.
They do the same with Revelations.
They simply use allegorical terms to explain why you have to be a member of a specific church to be saved.
They don't give historical accounts to shore up the verses. (i.e. Destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in 70 AD), etc.

When the kids get out there, we lose them to rantings similar to the ones I went through about the sunset/rise being above the ground on a plane vs a sphere.

I, for a long time was writing in an Atheist/Agnostic Forums. Their arguments were about the same as some I have seen in this forum and always were disruptive to the point of trying to destroy the writer. Think what this type of atmosphere does to our kids. Those kids who have a family structure they can lean on come through. WHat about the one who don't. We have got to do a better job and giving them the tools they need to remain in Christ in any atmosphere.http://christianchat.com/images/icons/icon7.png

We have to believe totally in the Bible from the Beginning to the End, from Genesis to Revelations to be able to teach them that to love Jesus is a total commitment.

 

[Gr8grace]

very good Zmouth: Don't forget Genesis 1:7 where he divided the water from under to above.

The main point I have tried to make is that if one takes the Bible seriously and truthfully, one cannot throw away a part of it because they do not believe that part. (i.e. Jesus entered a room where the door was locked and had four walls without walking through the walls. Just appeared...) Is this unbelievable as well?

A full 45% of our college students that believe in God, change their choice when confronted by the liberal secular studies they HAVE to go through. The problem is that we do not teach the Bible literally.
Most Churches stay away from teaching Genesis literally because of verses like Gen 1:7.
They do the same with Revelations.
They simply use allegorical terms to explain why you have to be a member of a specific church to be saved.
They don't give historical accounts to shore up the verses. (i.e. Destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in 70 AD), etc.

When the kids get out there, we lose them to rantings similar to the ones I went through about the sunset/rise being above the ground on a plane vs a sphere.

I, for a long time was writing in an Atheist/Agnostic Forums. Their arguments were about the same as some I have seen in this forum and always were disruptive to the point of trying to destroy the writer. Think what this type of atmosphere does to our kids. Those kids who have a family structure they can lean on come through. WHat about the one who don't. We have got to do a better job and giving them the tools they need to remain in Christ in any atmosphere.http://christianchat.com/images/icons/icon7.png

We have to believe totally in the Bible from the Beginning to the End, from Genesis to Revelations to be able to teach them that to love Jesus is a total commitment.

So how many people have you stoned? How many eyes have you gouged out? how many limbs have you cut off?

 

[Gr8grace]

very good Zmouth: Don't forget Genesis 1:7 where he divided the water from under to above.

The main point I have tried to make is that if one takes the Bible seriously and truthfully, one cannot throw away a part of it because they do not believe that part. (i.e. Jesus entered a room where the door was locked and had four walls without walking through the walls. Just appeared...) Is this unbelievable as well?

A full 45% of our college students that believe in God, change their choice when confronted by the liberal secular studies they HAVE to go through. The problem is that we do not teach the Bible literally.
Most Churches stay away from teaching Genesis literally because of verses like Gen 1:7.
They do the same with Revelations.
They simply use allegorical terms to explain why you have to be a member of a specific church to be saved.
They don't give historical accounts to shore up the verses. (i.e. Destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in 70 AD), etc.

When the kids get out there, we lose them to rantings similar to the ones I went through about the sunset/rise being above the ground on a plane vs a sphere.

I, for a long time was writing in an Atheist/Agnostic Forums. Their arguments were about the same as some I have seen in this forum and always were disruptive to the point of trying to destroy the writer. Think what this type of atmosphere does to our kids. Those kids who have a family structure they can lean on come through. WHat about the one who don't. We have got to do a better job and giving them the tools they need to remain in Christ in any atmosphere.http://christianchat.com/images/icons/icon7.png

We have to believe totally in the Bible from the Beginning to the End, from Genesis to Revelations to be able to teach them that to love Jesus is a total commitment.

And directly to you..............How is your witness for Christ? What are you telling unbelievers about Christ?

 

[Karraster]

very good Zmouth: Don't forget Genesis 1:7 where he divided the water from under to above.

The main point I have tried to make is that if one takes the Bible seriously and truthfully, one cannot throw away a part of it because they do not believe that part. (i.e. Jesus entered a room where the door was locked and had four walls without walking through the walls. Just appeared...) Is this unbelievable as well?

A full 45% of our college students that believe in God, change their choice when confronted by the liberal secular studies they HAVE to go through. The problem is that we do not teach the Bible literally.
Most Churches stay away from teaching Genesis literally because of verses like Gen 1:7.
They do the same with Revelations.
They simply use allegorical terms to explain why you have to be a member of a specific church to be saved.
They don't give historical accounts to shore up the verses. (i.e. Destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in 70 AD), etc.

When the kids get out there, we lose them to rantings similar to the ones I went through about the sunset/rise being above the ground on a plane vs a sphere.

I, for a long time was writing in an Atheist/Agnostic Forums. Their arguments were about the same as some I have seen in this forum and always were disruptive to the point of trying to destroy the writer. Think what this type of atmosphere does to our kids. Those kids who have a family structure they can lean on come through. WHat about the one who don't. We have got to do a better job and giving them the tools they need to remain in Christ in any atmosphere.http://christianchat.com/images/icons/icon7.png

We have to believe totally in the Bible from the Beginning to the End, from Genesis to Revelations to be able to teach them that to love Jesus is a total commitment.

Outstanding post brother, and welcome to CC. Yes, truth matters. As I recall, the Father seeks those who will worship Him in spirit and truth...and that we should take heed that no man decieve us.

Who hasn't been decieved? I for one admit I've been decieved from birth and I'm sick of it. The advesary is cunning, training generations to celebrate lies and traditions instead of truth. Some we are aware of, such as santa claus, the tooth fairy and easter bunny...but what about all that science has put forth as truth? Could it be that we believe in a spinning globe because there was a model in our classroom from day one? Maybe the joke is on us. Is there one single real photo of the whole earth? Or are they all photo shopped/CGI/paintings?

Has the Van Allen belt been mentioned yet? (Sorry, I've not read all the thread)

Have you considered this~ that the theory of evolution depends on the spinning ball model? Perhaps for another thread, but it is part of the deception in my estimation. ..which, I don't claim to know all the truth, however I can say, looking into all this has caused me to see that many things aren't quite right..don't add up. ..don't jive with scripture. Gonna close with this~let God be true and every man a lier. peace.

 

[Laish]

Concerning the word firmament. The issue is this that firmament comes from a translation of a translation. The original Hebrew word for firmament is raqa . Jerome's Latin Vulgate borrowed heavily on the Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures. The Greek word used was steroma meaning firm or or a solid structure. Which is more closer to a near eastern meaning for raqa ( Syriac ) meaning to make firm or solid . Where the Hebrew word Raqa means to spread out .

mid-13c., from Latin firmamentum "firmament,"literally "a support or strengthening," from firmus used in Vulgate to translateGreek stereoma "firm or solid structure," which translated Hebrew raqia, a word used of both the vaultof the sky and the floor of the earth in the OldTestament, probably literally "expanse," from raqa "to spread out," but in Syriac meaning "to make firm orsolid," hence the erroneous translation.
from Harper study of entomology.
I hope that helps
Blessings
Bill

 

[posthuman]

Don't forget Genesis 1:7 where he divided the water from under to above.

And God maketh the expanse, and it separateth between the waters which are under the expanse, and the waters which are above the expanse: and it is so.
(Genesis 1:7, YLT)​

what are "the waters" ?
and is there an Aramaic word for "superhot quark-gluon soup" or for "non-baryonic matter" ?

The main point I have tried to make is that if one takes the Bible seriously and truthfully, one cannot throw away a part of it because they do not believe that part.

like the fact that the sun rises and sets?
which has been conclusively demonstrated ad-nauseum here cannot possibly occur in a flat-earth model?

When evening came, after the sun had set,
they began bringing to Him all who were ill and those who were demon-possessed.
(Mark 1:32, NASB)​

the word used here:

[TABLE="class: outer_border, width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD]dunó: to enter, to sink into
Original Word: δύνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: dunó
Phonetic Spelling: (doo'-no)
Short Definition: I sink, set
Definition: I sink, set (as the sun)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

​

sink. literally: "sink"

remember this?

flat earth model -- no such thing as the sun "sinking"





spherical earth orbiting the sun model -- the sun appears to "sink"

 

[posthuman]

it's one thing to believe the scripture even when faithless men tell you that it cannot be true.

it's another thing to misinterpret the scripture and cling to your misinterpretation to the point of denying reality. to think that for thousands of years almost the entire population of thinking men and women who study the earth and the skies have been purposefully perpetrating a lie about the basic nature of the world, that is very easily disproven upon the simplest kinds of inspection and observation . . ? to what end, wasting untold trillions of dollars and hours of work, countless amounts of energy just to deceive everyone into thinking the geometry of the earth is different than it is . . ?

i really think that it is your understanding of the allegorical nature of some of the language used in the scripture which is at fault, not the scripture itself, and not reality itself.

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]
get yourself some welding goggles, stare at the sun through your spotting scope as it sets. look for it after dark with a telescope. as we've shown it must be considerably above the horizon if this paradigm is true. heck, the modern 'father' of this theory, Samuel Birley Rowbotham, the freemason who wrote the "the earth is not a globe" book, says that the sun must only be a couple hundred miles up. so that it must be even higher in the sky than 15 or 20 degrees up, at all times, from every point on earth.
or look at the moon as it sets through your spotting scope that you 'trust' -- and see if you can't discern its fullness when with the naked eye it is halfway below the horizon.

you can prove conclusively whether these heavenly bodies appear to rise and set, or whether they simply recede by perspective. which in turn destroys one model of the earth or another.

don't just talk from your armchair about things you don't really comprehend. go out and do.
isn't that what the scriptures teach? that faith without works is dead, and that the noble Jews in Berea searched out and tested the things Paul told them to discern and prove that they were right? didn't all the apostles assert that they were not teaching cleverly devised tales, but things they were eye-witnesses of, having personally seen and touched and heard?

this is a paradigm you can actually go and test.
before you go preaching this radical departure from accepted reality, don't you think you owe it to the truth to discover whether you are just broadly mistaken in a private interpretation of the language the scripture uses, or if the world itself really is amazingly radically different from what every educated person for over 2,000 years has 'known' to be true?

 

[Zmouth]

Maybe the joke is on us. Is there one single real photo of the whole earth?

LOL, single photograph of the whole earth...

Well, using a basketball (being a spherical object) try taking a photograph from every side and I'll bet you can only capture 1/2 of it on the photograph.

It can't be flat because if it was flat there wouldn't be a bow in the edge.

 

[Bladerunner]

LOL, single photograph of the whole earth...

Well, using a basketball (being a spherical object) try taking a photograph from every side and I'll bet you can only capture 1/2 of it on the photograph.

It can't be flat because if it was flat there wouldn't be a bow in the edge.

Have you looked at the edge (your horizon) . No, not a picture especially from NASA. Get on a high place and look out over the land,,,there is no curvature. Go to water, there is no curvature.


Now you might say you cannot see it (the curvature) but where ever you stand on a Globe/Sphere, the land falls away from you at 8" per mile (25,000 mile circumference at equator). At 5 miles that is 40" that you cannot see.

You can see Chicago city from 40 miles away. Yes you should be able to see the city but only the top part. WHy,,because you will have a 28" foot drop. so all the streets, cars, people you would not be able to see. On a plane, because a 6' person would be almost impossible to see anywhere from 40 miles away yet, with telescope or a high powered spotting scope you can still see the people. There is no curvature.

Experiment with this yourself and just keep an open mind.

 

[Bladerunner]

it's one thing to believe the scripture even when faithless men tell you that it cannot be true.

it's another thing to misinterpret the scripture and cling to your misinterpretation to the point of denying reality. to think that for thousands of years almost the entire population of thinking men and women who study the earth and the skies have been purposefully perpetrating a lie about the basic nature of the world, that is very easily disproven upon the simplest kinds of inspection and observation . . ? to what end, wasting untold trillions of dollars and hours of work, countless amounts of energy just to deceive everyone into thinking the geometry of the earth is different than it is . . ?

i really think that it is your understanding of the allegorical nature of some of the language used in the scripture which is at fault, not the scripture itself, and not reality itself.

thousands of years....Lets see 1500 -2010 ..oops 510 years. Rem. Copernicus ---Up untill then, the Hebrew view of the world was in every culture even pagan cultures.

How can you allegorize the scripture or call it poetry, etc.... I guess the talking donkey was not real but rather a fairy tale. Did Jericho fall down on the seventh trumpet? I guess the snake did not speak to Eve? I can go on. If you want to belief they did not,,,that is your rights as a human being and far be from me to keep you from your idelology.

 

[Bladerunner]

And God maketh the expanse, and it separateth between the waters which are under the expanse, and the waters which are above the expanse: and it is so.
(Genesis 1:7, YLT)​

what are "the waters" ?
and is there an Aramaic word for "superhot quark-gluon soup" or for "non-baryonic matter" ?

Hebrew (water) = מַיִם mayim

Strongs H4325 definitions in the following manner and the number of times this very word is used in the KJV: water (571x), urine (2x), waters (with H6440) (2x), watersprings (2x), washing (1x), watercourse (with H4161) (1x), waterflood (1x), watering (1x), variant (1x).

Genesis reads as a Hebrew word not Aramaic. There are a few times in the KJV that Aramaic is used but not in this case.

 

[Bladerunner]

Concerning the word firmament. The issue is this that firmament comes from a translation of a translation. The original Hebrew word for firmament is raqa . Jerome's Latin Vulgate borrowed heavily on the Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures. The Greek word used was steroma meaning firm or or a solid structure. Which is more closer to a near eastern meaning for raqa ( Syriac ) meaning to make firm or solid . Where the Hebrew word Raqa means to spread out .

mid-13c., from Latin firmamentum "firmament,"literally "a support or strengthening," from firmus used in Vulgate to translateGreek stereoma "firm or solid structure," which translated Hebrew raqia, a word used of both the vaultof the sky and the floor of the earth in the OldTestament, probably literally "expanse," from raqa "to spread out," but in Syriac meaning "to make firm orsolid," hence the erroneous translation.
from Harper study of entomology.
I hope that helps
Blessings
Bill

Yes your right! However, when studying scriptures, one should always look to other passages, history and other reference material to tell us how it was used. Rem, Theses other scriptures are being written by inspired authors so HE (GOD) is telling you what it is. There are many scriptures for the firmament but the one that stands out is:
Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?
(Job 37:18, NRSV [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)] )
תַּרְקִיעַ עִמּוֹ לִשְׁחָקִים חֲזָקִים כִּרְאִי מוּצָק

here are excerpts from "testing the Globe web site" and it is interesting.


"I know many have strong opinions about the Book of Enoch. Whatever your opinion may be on it, the fact remains, it was well known to the authors of Scripture, to the point where Jude even quoted directly from it, while under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. At the very least, it shows the mindset of the Hebrews (including the authors of the canonized text), confirming the belief they (and the entire Ancient Near East) had concerning the shape and nature of the Earth and its place in the cosmos: - See more at:

The Deluge and the Deliverance of Noah

Enoch Book 1, CHAPTER 89:

2 And again I raised mine eyes towards heaven and saw a lofty roof, with seven water torrents thereon, and those torrents flowed with much water into an enclosure.
3 And I saw again, and behold fountains were opened on the surface of that great enclosure, and that water began to swell and rise upon the surface, and I saw that enclosure till all its surface was covered with water.
4 And the water, the darkness, and mist increased upon it; and as I looked at the height of that water,that water had risen above the height of that enclosure, and was streaming over that enclosure,and it stood upon the earth.
5 And all the cattle of that enclosure were gathered together until I saw how they sank and were swallowed up and perished in that water.
6 But that vessel floated on the water, while all the oxen and elephants and camels and asses sank to the bottom with all the animals, so that I could no longer see them, and they were not able to escape,(but) perished and sank into the depths.
7 And again I saw in the vision till those water torrents were removed from that high roof, and the chasms of the earth were leveled up and other abysses were opened.
8 Then the water began to run down into these, till the earth became visible; but that vessel settled on the earth, and the darkness retired and light appeared."
- See more at: Enoch's Domed World



One other thing, during the flood, waters from the 'fountains of the deep' was used yet our scientist are just not confirming these deep springs.

 

[Bladerunner]

Outstanding post brother, and welcome to CC. Yes, truth matters. As I recall, the Father seeks those who will worship Him in spirit and truth...and that we should take heed that no man decieve us.

Who hasn't been decieved? I for one admit I've been decieved from birth and I'm sick of it. The advesary is cunning, training generations to celebrate lies and traditions instead of truth. Some we are aware of, such as santa claus, the tooth fairy and easter bunny...but what about all that science has put forth as truth? Could it be that we believe in a spinning globe because there was a model in our classroom from day one? Maybe the joke is on us. Is there one single real photo of the whole earth? Or are they all photo shopped/CGI/paintings?

Has the Van Allen belt been mentioned yet? (Sorry, I've not read all the thread)

Have you considered this~ that the theory of evolution depends on the spinning ball model? Perhaps for another thread, but it is part of the deception in my estimation. ..which, I don't claim to know all the truth, however I can say, looking into all this has caused me to see that many things aren't quite right..don't add up. ..don't jive with scripture. Gonna close with this~let God be true and every man a lier. peace.

Thank you. i want to challenge everyone again. How far and to to what ends will Satan go to remove Christianity from this earth? Think outside the bubble here folks. We know he (SATAN) fooled Eve. We know what he will do during the tribulations. We know there will be a great deception that will happen the end times in order to convert everyone to a one world religion. World wide we are now being told and our kids are being brainwashed that Islam is a peaceful religion. keep in mind that there were no globes in the classroom until the 1950's. Your right, evolution could not work with a flat earth. A Dome over us would confirm a God and creation. Think people,,,look around you, experiment.

Just because I know about the Flat Earth, it has not changed anything I do. I don't tell my grandkids (little ones) because if they slip at school, it would be embarrassing or worse for them. Outside this forum, I have not shared my beliefs to anyone else other than my wife. Being Ostracized online here in the Chat Room is one thing but out here where it will hurt my income don't think so. When someone talks about someplace on the globe, or ask how fast are we spinning through space and if I think there are little green men out there, I tell them what they want to hear.

REm my friends, we kill our babies by the millions each year and that started in 1964. Our latest lie is same-sex marriage is OK with God.

 

[Bladerunner]

And directly to you..............How is your witness for Christ? What are you telling unbelievers about Christ?

the same thing you probably are! If the opportunity pops up I don't shy away but 1 Cor. 15:1-4 is the main stay with stories about the bible that bring Jesus's LOVE to bare.

Hope this is sufficient for you. By the Way,,what is your,,,maybe I can pickup a few pointers.

 

[Bladerunner]

So how many people have you stoned? How many eyes have you gouged out? how many limbs have you cut off?

I know what you are referring to but for the sake of others, care to expand the above.

You do know we are not under the OT government, societal and religious laws? Don't you?????

 

[posthuman]

thousands of years....Lets see 1500 -2010 ..oops 510 years..

Eratosthenes knew the Earth is a sphere and calculated it's circumference well over 2000 years ago.

You're presenting lies boldly now, without anything at all to back them up.

You think the sun appears small enough to disappear completely with distance, even though you can see stars from further away and imagine they are even smaller. But you think you can discern a difference of 3 feet from 5 miles away? That's called talking out of both sides of your mouth, cognitive dissonance.

Go watch the sun rise and set. It is easy to do. Or do you think the Bible is speaking in an allegorical way when it says the sun sinks and sets in the West, since on a flat earth there is no such thing as sunset and its lowest point in the sky is in the North?

You've got an enormous number of problems you're completely ignoring, which all disappear when you realize Isaiah is describing the circumference of a visual field, not the geometry of the planet, and that most of the narrative in the scripture is written to the point of view of an human living on the surface of it.

 

[Bladerunner]

Eratosthenes knew the Earth is a sphere and calculated it's circumference well over 2000 years ago.

You're presenting lies boldly now, without anything at all to back them up.

You think the sun appears small enough to disappear completely with distance, even though you can see stars from further away and imagine they are even smaller. But you think you can discern a difference of 3 feet from 5 miles away? That's called talking out of both sides of your mouth, cognitive dissonance.

Go watch the sun rise and set. It is easy to do. Or do you think the Bible is speaking in an allegorical way when it says the sun sinks and sets in the West, since on a flat earth there is no such thing as sunset and its lowest point in the sky is in the North?

You've got an enormous number of problems you're completely ignoring, which all disappear when you realize Isaiah is describing the circumference of a visual field, not the geometry of the planet, and that most of the narrative in the scripture is written to the point of view of an human living on the surface of it.

Very Good PH:;;He did calculate the circumference of the earth.. A circle has a circumference TOO!.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Eratosthenes.....

It seems your are stuck on sunset and sunrises my friend. need to get a new stick,,this one is already worn out.

 

[posthuman]

Very Good PH:;;He did calculate the circumference of the earth.. A circle has a circumference TOO!.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Eratosthenes.....

It seems your are stuck on sunset and sunrises my friend. need to get a new stick,,this one is already worn out.

You know well that he knew the Earth to be a sphere and that his calculation depended on it.

And you know full well that the fact of sunrise and sunset destroys the idea of the Earth being flat.

So why do you lie? Why resist the truth? That idea is wrong, and it is not as though it is against the scripture to accept the reality of the geometry of the planet because the scripture does not teach otherwise. Fables do - you are trading the truth for fables and bad hermeneutic.

Why? Why cling to this as though it's the gospel? It's not. People are wrong all the time, it's only foolish to refuse to be corrected when your errors are made clear.
But you can't show the Earth is flat - it isn't. All the 'anamolies' are explained consistently with the globe. For simplicity sake, like I told you, we'll look at one and only one argument at a time. Sunset and sunrise first - and already flat earth falls flat on its face. Done.

 

[trofimus]

Opening with a long post is a mistake. Following it with even longer posts is also a mistake. You must leave room for some discussion to start. I saw the OP and could not even easily figure out what you were talking about, really. Flat earthers came to mind. I thought of saying something about a pancake, but I refrained from such, for I would not wish to offend you. You speak of snow globes and pillars. This image fits:

So, when Japanese want to get to USA, they fall over the edge of the earth and die. Right. Exactly what is happening all the time

 

[Bladerunner]

So, when Japanese want to get to USA, they fall over the edge of the earth and die. Right. Exactly what is happening all the time

Hello Trofimus:

No they DON"T fall off the edge of the earth, I think Columbus thought so in 1492.

While there are several maps out about a flat earth, I find it interesting that the UN is using one of them. Yes, it is true.

Question: Why do they take all those crazy routes to get to other points. (i.e. South of Equator)?

Here is a Youtube of about 12 minutes explaining flights to and from Australia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNVgzk3tbl0

If you think this fellow is putting you on, then visit this site and see the truth. Here is a URL that will let you keep up with any and all planes flying above the earth at any moment.

https://planefinder.net/flight/FDX9750


**If you scroll down south,,, you will get how many planes are going straight across the southern oceans at any given time.

Have Fun.