Do you believe Jesus (God in the flesh) appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Birth"

Do you believe Jesus appeared to mankind before the "Virgin Birth"?

this was supposed to be a poll however my connection timed out while I was in the process of setting it up...

[pagie]

well NazeriteNation here is the predicament I do not know haha though if I noticed some thing of the sort would we be labled heratic? hahaha
there are scriptures in the old testament wich might bring up this question and I think its a really good one but also one wich I dont think I could ever really come to any conclusion on.
In Genesis 18 the Lord apears to Abraham, it says he looked up and saw 3 men, (this passage is also used as references to the trinity doctrine) it says when he saw them he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them (the three men) and bowed low to the ground and said if I have found favour in your eyes lord (footnote- O Lord) now these are 3 men that is pointed out at the 2nd verse and also pointed out that there feet washed and had food given to them, so it is clear that they arent just an aperation but they are clearly portrayed as flesh (see 18:4-5) it is also clear that these three can be portrayed and is believed by manny to be the Lord as the chapter adresses Lord over and over. ok we see three men to begin with some say all three are the Lord some say they are the Lord and two angels another is that some say that the referance to angels in some places is aslo referance to the Lord but the 3 verses in this chapter and the 1st verse of chapter 19 are the aparently the key (gen 18:2-3 ; 18:22 ; 19:1)

there is also the instance of Jacob wrestling with God, Gen 32:22-32, here it says that Jacob wrestled with a man but it also sais that this man was the Lord here Jacob says "it is because I saw God face to face and yet my life was spared"

then there is the subject of Melchizadek witch I seen people talking about this in one of the other threads, the concept comes from Hebrews when it makes referance to Jesus christ being the Highpriest, Melchezidek being the type and christ being the antitype (the actual) we can see why some might point to Melchezidek actualy being Jesus in the flesh in Abrahams day but the argument is not realy backed up and is a little bit flimzy, notice this is a type (typology) is is also mentioned of as Aaron the first high priest of the levitical priesthood and all other high priests of hid sucsesion, Adam, the bernt offerings, Bullock, calf, david king of Israel, eagles, Isaac, Jacob, lamb, lion, manna, ox, Solomon, sparrow, star, sun, Turtle dove, these are all types of christ but are not the actual antitype being Jesus the actual thing for witch they reprasent.

then you have another example in Daniel 3:24-26 the argument here as christ being in the flesh dosnt stand verry well either but there is no doubt that this 4th man could be identafied as the son of God (Jesus christ)

If we are to believe that the Trinity (God, Son, Holy Spirit) are one, then of course Jesus was here from the very beginning as was God.

[pagie]

hi Jane I agree with you compleatly but what I gather is NazariteNation is refering to Jesus being in the flesh as a man before the virgin birth occured

[G12_Soldier]

nah not in the flesh, but in the spirit for sure, I know of one time for sure when he appeared in the spirit, Joshua 5:13-15, re-read it though, cause I could be wrong...but Joshua had a encounter with the pre-incarnate Christ.

[G12_Soldier]

oh and I don't believe in the trinity

[Abing]

um.. true that Jane.(Trinity) remember when God wrestled with Jacob? that was in the flesh

Genesis 32:22-32

[Abing]

Jacob Wrestles with God

22The same night he arose and took his two wives, his two female servants, and his eleven children,[a] and crossed the ford of the(A) Jabbok. 23He took them and sent them across the stream, and everything else that he had. 24And Jacob was left alone. And(B) a man wrestled with him until the breaking of the day. 25When the man saw that he did not prevail against Jacob, he touched his hip socket, and Jacob’s hip was put out of joint as he wrestled with him. 26Then he said, "Let me go, for the day has broken." But Jacob said,(C) "I will not let you go unless you bless me." 27And he said to him, "What is your name?" And he said, "Jacob." 28Then he said,(D) "Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel,[b] for(E) you have striven with God and(F) with men, and have prevailed." 29Then Jacob asked him, "Please tell me your name." But he said,(G) "Why is it that you ask my name?" And there he blessed him. 30So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel,[c] saying, "For(H) I have seen God face to face, and yet my life has been delivered." 31The sun rose upon him as he passed(I) Penuel, limping because of his hip. 32Therefore to this day the people of Israel do not eat the sinew of the thigh that is on the hip socket, because he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip on the sinew of the thigh.

[G12_Soldier]

Well...idk, just because they wrestled don't mean he had to but his flesh suit on lol

[Abing]

i dont know either hehe i just posted that perhaps someone else can clarify

G12, I used to have a "oneness" perspective myself however overtime and much study that perspective changed. Personally, I believe that becoming a trinitarian has helped me to better understand Christ's role here on earth as well as His sacrifice and what His example in life, death, and resurerection and how it pertains to us.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to debate or change your mind. The reason I bring up the topics that I do is because I want to encourage folks not to be afraid to delve a little deeper into spiritual waters, that our God is a loving God who not only wants us to drink but who promises more...

So if my topics inspire a few folks to read the scriptures and pray that Holy Spirit will place a new revelation on their hearts today, then hey, I'm happy!

[G12_Soldier]

I believe they are not all one...i don't know if thats what you think i believe or not Lol, cause I got on the wrong side before, I believe that Jesus is the son of God, not God...the Holy spirit is actually the Holy spirit a seperate being, not God. and God is Actually creator ruler and king.

[G12_Soldier]

if I believe that way, which one am I lol

Originally Posted by G12_Soldier

I believe they are not all one...i don't know if thats what you think i believe or not Lol, cause I got on the wrong side before, I believe that Jesus is the son of God, not God...the Holy spirit is actually the Holy spirit a seperate being, not God. and God is Actually creator ruler and king.

Sounds like a trinitarian to me *lol*

[G12_Soldier]

aight sweet, I was going to make a long response to that, but I think were covered

Originally Posted by Jane

If we are to believe that the Trinity (God, Son, Holy Spirit) are one, then of course Jesus was here from the very beginning as was God.

I think that this statement is odd. You say that you believe the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one but you refer to the ''Son'' as Jesus and the ''Father'' as simply God.

Originally Posted by G12_Soldier

I believe they are not all one...i don't know if thats what you think i believe or not Lol, cause I got on the wrong side before, I believe that Jesus is the son of God, not God...the Holy spirit is actually the Holy spirit a seperate being, not God. and God is Actually creator ruler and king.

Originally Posted by NazariteNation

Sounds like a trinitarian to me *lol*

This is not what trinitarians believe even though trinitarian believe God are three entities or persons ect... they do believe Jesus to be God or a portion of God ect...They also believe the Holy Spirit to be God as well.

G12 does not seem to be oneness or trinitarian. Maybe some type of Arianism?

[pagie]

yep Arias from Alexandria tought the doctrines that Jesus wasnt God, it is what we call today Arianism the 1st council of Nicea in 325 AD was a gathering of bishops from all around the known world at that time and there at the council of Nicea is when the doctrine of the trinity was established with a creed.
We believe in God the father Allmighty maker of all things visible and invisible, and in the Lord Jesus Christ the son of God, begotten of the father, the only begotten; that is of the essance of the father, God of God, light of light, verry God of verry God, begotten not made, being of one substance with the father by whome all things were made, bothe in heaven and on earth; who for us menand for our salvation came down and was incarnate and was made man; he suffered, and the third day he rose again, ascended into heaven; he suffered, and the third day he rose again, ascended into heaven; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. And in the Holy Ghost, But those who say: 'There was a time when he was not;' and 'He was not before he was made;' and 'He was made out of nothing,' or 'He is of another substance' or 'essence,' or 'The Son of God is created,' or 'changeable,' or 'alterable'

lol, read hebrews...