Study to show yourself approved...

[garee]

Yes ma'am, of course Yeshua is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
We all here agree on that, I think.

but to say Paul was writing a letter to Timothy to tell him to study his letters doesn't sound right, in my opinion, ma'am.
I was just curious to what written work, (if it was a written work), Timothy would be studying.

Did you ever think it was not yours or Paul's opinion who inspired Timothy to believe God seeing the faith to believe was not after the imaginations of Paul's' or Timothy" own heart?



2Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

It was not Paul's private interpretation coming from his own mind.

I am reminder of a verse.I think Timothy was more like the Berean sect being more noble than another

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

 

[disciplemike]

Did you ever think it was not yours or Paul's opinion who inspired Timothy to believe God seeing the faith to believe was not after the imaginations of Paul's' or Timothy" own heart?



2Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

It was not Paul's private interpretation coming from his own mind.

I am reminder of a verse.I think Timothy was more like the Berean sect being more noble than another

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

sorry brother, I missed something.
I am not sure what you are saying, or how it applies to the thread.
can you explain for a slower brother?

 

[PennEd]

hold on friend.
you implied something that was denying the finished work of Christ in my post.
where is it?

Well, let's stop dancing then. Do you believe we must follow the law to attain OR maintain Salvation?

 

[disciplemike]

Well, let's stop dancing then. Do you believe we must follow the law to attain OR maintain Salvation?

no, and I have never said anyone has to follow the law to earn salvation.

I have said several times, my righteousness would not get me into Disney land, let alone heaven.

salvation is by grace through faith, and that not of works, so I can't boast.

so, how am I denying the finished work of Christ?

 

[gb9]

no, and I have never said anyone has to follow the law to earn salvation.

I have said several times, my righteousness would not get me into Disney land, let alone heaven.

salvation is by grace through faith, and that not of works, so I can't boast.

so, how am I denying the finished work of Christ?

so, you don't, but you do, it does not apply to salvation, but everyone should do it............. what ARE you trying to say??

 

[LaurenTM]

Well, let's stop dancing then. Do you believe we must follow the law to attain OR maintain Salvation?

it appears that Mike believes we are living in Babylon if we worship on Sundays...he says we are sinning if we break the Sabbath...

while he does not actually state that we follow the law for salvation, he confuses NT scripture written with regards to UNbelievers, with instructions to believers

he cannot separate one testament from the other and therefore, does a great INJUSTICE to BOTH of them

First off, I think the context is clear in Ezekiel. Like it or not, this is the "New Covenant" or "New Testament" that Ezekiel is talking about.


I appreciate these questions. (even though my answers will be bombarded shortly afterwards)

1. The only thingI can tell you there, that to knowingly break the 4th commandment is sin.
2. Scripture defines the Sabbath, but here is my attempt. Rest. No unnecessary work. No cooking. No cleaning. No planning for work. No causing anyone else to do non-emergency work. This would cause a limited amount of health care people and police to need to be on duty of course. Fellowship & Bible study is always good. Can you imagine how powerful that would be, if all believers observed it? It would be a huge witness.
3. I think I pretty much answered this in #2.
4. I have been observing the Sabbath for about the last 3 years and it really has been a delight! It does not feel like bondage to me. It feels like liberty.

post 585, from the 4th commandment thread

as a result, he is actually saying that unless we follow his lead, we are all in a CONSTANT state of sin

forget that the blood of Christ was shed once for all...it's not working according to mike and those who believe as he does

 

[PennEd]

no, and I have never said anyone has to follow the law to earn salvation.

I have said several times, my righteousness would not get me into Disney land, let alone heaven.

salvation is by grace through faith, and that not of works, so I can't boast.

so, how am I denying the finished work of Christ?

Fantastic! I'm assuming your response ALSO INCLUDED MAINTAINING SALVATION. Also, since you agree following the law neither helps nor is necessary to attain OR maintain Salvation, then you also agree there is no need to adhere to Saturday Sabbath or using Hebrew terms, and other laws.

Boy, I'm truly happy to hear that Mike! God Bless you!

 

[PennEd]

it appears that Mike believes we are living in Babylon if we worship on Sundays...he says we are sinning if we break the Sabbath...

while he does not actually state that we follow the law for salvation, he confuses NT scripture written with regards to UNbelievers, with instructions to believers

he cannot separate one testament from the other and therefore, does a great INJUSTICE to BOTH of them

Hey, if he wants to call himself a duck-billed platypus, or try and follow Mosaic law, who cares? AS LONG AS HE DOESN'T TRY AND MERGE IT INTO ATTAINING OR MAINTAINING SALVATION.

 

[disciplemike]

Fantastic! I'm assuming your response ALSO INCLUDED MAINTAINING SALVATION. Also, since you agree following the law neither helps nor is necessary to attain OR maintain Salvation, then you also agree there is no need to adhere to Saturday Sabbath or using Hebrew terms, and other laws.

Boy, I'm truly happy to hear that Mike! God Bless you!

no sir, you went too far.
I did not say we don't need to adhere to Saturday Sabbath and using Hebrew terms, etc, because I think we do!
in my humble opinion.
but not to earn salvation.

in my humble opinion, a lot of "believers" have drowned in easy believism.
just get your free ticket to heaven validated, then get a fish bumper sticker, then.... what?

 

[PennEd]

no sir, you went too far.
I did not say we don't need to adhere to Saturday Sabbath and using Hebrew terms, etc, because I think we do!
in my humble opinion.
but not to earn salvation.

in my humble opinion, a lot of "believers" have drowned in easy believism.
just get your free ticket to heaven validated, then get a fish bumper sticker, then.... what?

Ok!! We are making progress peeling back this onion Mike.
Tell me what the consequences are for the believer that DOESN'T believe or follow Saturday service please?

 

[LaurenTM]

Hey, if he wants to call himself a duck-billed platypus, or try and follow Mosaic law, who cares? AS LONG AS HE DOESN'T TRY AND MERGE IT INTO ATTAINING OR MAINTAINING SALVATION.

only problem being he condemns the rest of us for not worshipping on the Sabbath and appears to insist we state it is ok to sin

he is placing himself ABOVE everyone here...by saying these things

oops...sorry...spilled the beans...........

 

[disciplemike]

Ok!! We are making progress peeling back this onion Mike.
Tell me what the consequences are for the believer that DOESN'T believe or follow Saturday service please?

not sure about the consequences for a service.
I believe the 4th commandment says to Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
I believe anyone who does not do that, is in violation of the 4th commandment.

 

[LaurenTM]

not sure about the consequences for a service.
I believe the 4th commandment says to Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
I believe anyone who does not do that, is in violation of the 4th commandment.

you state plainly that if we violate the Sabbath by worshipping on Sunday, we are sinning...that is what you have plainly stated

here are YOUR exact words:

First off, I think the context is clear in Ezekiel. Like it or not, this is the "New Covenant" or "New Testament" that Ezekiel is talking about.


I appreciate these questions. (even though my answers will be bombarded shortly afterwards)

1. The only thingI can tell you there, that to knowingly break the 4th commandment is sin.
2. Scripture defines the Sabbath, but here is my attempt. Rest. No unnecessary work. No cooking. No cleaning. No planning for work. No causing anyone else to do non-emergency work. This would cause a limited amount of health care people and police to need to be on duty of course. Fellowship & Bible study is always good. Can you imagine how powerful that would be, if all believers observed it? It would be a huge witness.
3. I think I pretty much answered this in #2.
4. I have been observing the Sabbath for about the last 3 years and it really has been a delight! It does not feel like bondage to me. It feels like liberty.

post 585 from the 4th commandment thread, still ongoing



so, that would mean that Mike believes we are in a CONSTANT state of sin

that is what he states...simple...and in his own words

 

[PennEd]

not sure about the consequences for a service.
I believe the 4th commandment says to Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
I believe anyone who does not do that, is in violation of the 4th commandment.

I understand that you believe that it is a violation of the 4th commandment. I'm asking you IF others don't believe or adhere what are the consequences of continuing to violate this law?? Do they or could they lose their salvation for willingly continue NOT adhering? PLease tell me what the consequences are.
Thank you.

 

[Gr8grace]

I understand that you believe that it is a violation of the 4th commandment. I'm asking you IF others don't believe or adhere what are the consequences of continuing to violate this law?? Do they or could they lose their salvation for willingly continue NOT adhering? PLease tell me what the consequences are.
Thank you.

Good luck PennEd. The onion ain't gonna peel any farther.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Have you ever considered that when Paul wrote this letter to Timothy, the New Testament was not even written yet?
Certainly both Paul and Timothy were believers in Messiah.
The question I am asking, what "word of truth" was Timothy to study?

If one doesn't properly understand the Cross, one cannot rightly divide the Word of Truth.

 

[disciplemike]

I understand that you believe that it is a violation of the 4th commandment. I'm asking you IF others don't believe or adhere what are the consequences of continuing to violate this law?? Do they or could they lose their salvation for willingly continue NOT adhering? PLease tell me what the consequences are.
Thank you.

Ok, I will try to respond to post #33 by LadyLynn and your post #34.

This will probably not go over well, but...
I was a part of Sunday church for many years.
While researching another topic, I was exposed to some teachers who said that we should be honoring the 7th day Sabbath, and that people attend church now on Sunday, primarily because the Roman Catholic Church changed the day.

I spent the following weeks in intense study, losing a lot of sleep, trying to refute these teachers. I could not. They are right.
The next 12 months or so was a whirlwind of... uhm... troubles(?).
I don't like the word "troubles" very much, because I would do it all again for the treasure I have found.

So, maybe sometimes, in heated discussion, I may take things a little too far. I do apologize for that. I can't apologize for keeping the 4th commandment.

What happens when a person knowingly violates the Sabbath commandment? I am not sure. They are still under grace for sure, but according to my interpretation of 1John3.4, it is a sin if a person knowingly violates a commandment.

(I am trying to go slow here)

I believe grandma and grandpa, and many generations before, did not have a clear knowledge of why we worship on Sunday.
Many people still don't. I have put many hours into this topic.
I believe we are in a time when things are being revealed, (not so much that they were hidden), but they were hidden in plain sight. Daniel told us in the last days, knowledge will increase. I believe that prophecy has many layers and many manifestations.

So, here I am. A believer in Yeshua HaMashiach, my Savior.
and an observer of Torah. (at least the parts of Torah that are applicable to me).
Does that mean I fully understand all the laws and apply them perfectly? Of course not.
Does that mean I am condemning everyone who doesn't see it the way I see it? No. not intentionally anyway. although I get carried away sometimes.

Anyway, enough for now. hope this helps.

 

[posthuman]

hold on friend.
you implied something that was denying the finished work of Christ in my post.
where is it?

what do you personally mean when you say "the finished work of Christ" ?

we know what we mean, but we do not know what you mean, and there are a great number of brothers and sisters here who are very skeptical that you do not mean the same thing we mean when we say this.

 

[posthuman]

an observer of Torah. (at least the parts of Torah that are applicable to me).

how do you determine what parts are applicable to you, seeing as how if you are truly in Christ, you have died to the entire thing?

i.e.

But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
(Romans 7:6) ​

 

[PennEd]

Ok, I will try to respond to post #33 by LadyLynn and your post #34.

This will probably not go over well, but...
I was a part of Sunday church for many years.
While researching another topic, I was exposed to some teachers who said that we should be honoring the 7th day Sabbath, and that people attend church now on Sunday, primarily because the Roman Catholic Church changed the day.

I spent the following weeks in intense study, losing a lot of sleep, trying to refute these teachers. I could not. They are right.
The next 12 months or so was a whirlwind of... uhm... troubles(?).
I don't like the word "troubles" very much, because I would do it all again for the treasure I have found.

So, maybe sometimes, in heated discussion, I may take things a little too far. I do apologize for that. I can't apologize for keeping the 4th commandment.

What happens when a person knowingly violates the Sabbath commandment? I am not sure. They are still under grace for sure, but according to my interpretation of 1John3.4, it is a sin if a person knowingly violates a commandment.

(I am trying to go slow here)

I believe grandma and grandpa, and many generations before, did not have a clear knowledge of why we worship on Sunday.
Many people still don't. I have put many hours into this topic.
I believe we are in a time when things are being revealed, (not so much that they were hidden), but they were hidden in plain sight. Daniel told us in the last days, knowledge will increase. I believe that prophecy has many layers and many manifestations.

So, here I am. A believer in Yeshua HaMashiach, my Savior.
and an observer of Torah. (at least the parts of Torah that are applicable to me).
Does that mean I fully understand all the laws and apply them perfectly? Of course not.
Does that mean I am condemning everyone who doesn't see it the way I see it? No. not intentionally anyway. although I get carried away sometimes.

Anyway, enough for now. hope this helps.

Read this post 3 times and I'm still not sure you answered my question except to say YOU ARE NOT SURE what happens to a person who continues to sin by violating the mosaic law.

THAT STATEMENT ABSOLUTELY SAYS YOU DON'T KNOW IF JESUS' SACRIFICE IS SUFFICIENT!!!

It's right there. YOU said it. First you say they are still under Grace, in the NEXT breath you say YOU DON'T KNOW!

THAT is a mixed Gospel message. Can't you see that?