Study to show yourself approved...
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no sir, that is how you interpret what I said.
Yeshua HaMashiach is my Savior. He died for my sins. I am not sure how else I can say that.
Keeping the Sabbath is not for salvation.
We need to move beyond that.
Understand that eternal salvation came by PROMISE to Abraham, that through his Seed, the Messiah would come.
A law given 430 years later cannot disannul the PROMISE.
No one here says that the law is for salvation. We just get accused of that a lot.
The "law" and grace are not opposed to each other. never have been. we were just taught that.
Yeshua HaMashiach is my Savior. He died for my sins. I am not sure how else I can say that.
Keeping the Sabbath is not for salvation.
We need to move beyond that.
Understand that eternal salvation came by PROMISE to Abraham, that through his Seed, the Messiah would come.
A law given 430 years later cannot disannul the PROMISE.
No one here says that the law is for salvation. We just get accused of that a lot.
The "law" and grace are not opposed to each other. never have been. we were just taught that.
Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, How is it MY interpretation of what YOU said?!! YOU said YOU don't know the consequences for someone who continues to sin by violating the 4th Commandment! I didn't say that.
WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES? NOTHING ELSE YOU SAY REALLY MATTERS IF YOU AREN'T SURE IF JESUS' SACRIFICE IS SUFFICIENT.
So I will try one more time. What are the consequences of continuing to sin by violating the 4th commandment?
L
to continually state that no one understands what mike is teaching here, is a dodge on mike's part IMO...which he denies
yet, he does not answer a straightforward question with a straightforward answer...other than to say no one understands his answer
if mike states a person sins if they observe Sunday as a day of worship because they are in contradiction of the 4th commandment, then they are CONTINUALLY sinning
there is no way around that
I suggest that a poor understanding of the law as a shadow of what was to come (scripture) coupled with an attempt to create Jewish Gentiles, has begotten a confusing and confused amalgam of religiosity that proposes to be a better understanding than the NT presents of salvation and Jesus COMPLETED work on the cross
a person can say all they want that keeping the law is not a part of their salvation, but it VERY apparently is or why bother to constantly bring it up?
yet, he does not answer a straightforward question with a straightforward answer...other than to say no one understands his answer
if mike states a person sins if they observe Sunday as a day of worship because they are in contradiction of the 4th commandment, then they are CONTINUALLY sinning
there is no way around that
I suggest that a poor understanding of the law as a shadow of what was to come (scripture) coupled with an attempt to create Jewish Gentiles, has begotten a confusing and confused amalgam of religiosity that proposes to be a better understanding than the NT presents of salvation and Jesus COMPLETED work on the cross
a person can say all they want that keeping the law is not a part of their salvation, but it VERY apparently is or why bother to constantly bring it up?
I am trying to give you an answer.
If a person knowingly violates the 4th commandment, in my opinion, it is a sin. The person would need to repent and ask for forgiveness (1John1.9).
If a person unknowingly violates the 4th commandment, or honestly doesn't believe the 4th commandment applies to them, I think, (I don't know), I think that would fall under grace.
If a person knowingly violates the commandment, and does so in clear rebellion against God, not caring what God says, I would not want to be that person.
I am not sure what answer you are looking for.
honestly, the consequences are not up to me.
The Sabbath is a delight. It is not an axe hanging over my head.
If a person knowingly violates the 4th commandment, in my opinion, it is a sin. The person would need to repent and ask for forgiveness (1John1.9).
If a person unknowingly violates the 4th commandment, or honestly doesn't believe the 4th commandment applies to them, I think, (I don't know), I think that would fall under grace.
If a person knowingly violates the commandment, and does so in clear rebellion against God, not caring what God says, I would not want to be that person.
I am not sure what answer you are looking for.
honestly, the consequences are not up to me.
The Sabbath is a delight. It is not an axe hanging over my head.
L
you stating we believe we can continue to sin...is the slander
EVERYONE is telling you that...I can read in any thread you start...you continue to teach law observance and then you deny it has anything to do with salvation
yet, I am sitting here reading the responses of other people to you...they do not agree with what you present and do not think you are being truthful in your responses
you are like the character in the Dicken's story...the artful dodger...only not so artful
mike's post # 424 from the 4th commandment thread
EVERYONE is telling you that...I can read in any thread you start...you continue to teach law observance and then you deny it has anything to do with salvation
yet, I am sitting here reading the responses of other people to you...they do not agree with what you present and do not think you are being truthful in your responses
you are like the character in the Dicken's story...the artful dodger...only not so artful
mike's post # 424 from the 4th commandment thread
L
post #427, same thread
mike states we are under the law...by stating we cannot repent if we are not under the law
what on earth?
and not because I do not understand what the man wrote...I just find it terribly convoluted and nonsensical
we are NOT under the law and to repent means to change one's mind
it is indicated in scripture that God repented...in a number of places...He changed His mind
we have changed our minds to agree with God...that means we understand we CANNOT possibly be UNDER the law and be saved at the same time
anybody seeing what he says?
stating that Christians think they never sin is a dodge to avoid saying that he lives by the law
again, a person cannot be both saved and under the law
every single person that tries to shove the law in front of Christ, since I have been a part of these forums, makes the same BLATANTLY FALSE statement that we think it is ok to sin
we don't...we believe, however, that are forgiven of our sins and cannot maintain the law
the purpose of the law was to make sin evident...and that, is where every single one of these lawkeepers fail in their understanding
mike states we are under the law...by stating we cannot repent if we are not under the law
what on earth?
and not because I do not understand what the man wrote...I just find it terribly convoluted and nonsensical
we are NOT under the law and to repent means to change one's mind
it is indicated in scripture that God repented...in a number of places...He changed His mind
we have changed our minds to agree with God...that means we understand we CANNOT possibly be UNDER the law and be saved at the same time
anybody seeing what he says?
stating that Christians think they never sin is a dodge to avoid saying that he lives by the law
again, a person cannot be both saved and under the law
every single person that tries to shove the law in front of Christ, since I have been a part of these forums, makes the same BLATANTLY FALSE statement that we think it is ok to sin
we don't...we believe, however, that are forgiven of our sins and cannot maintain the law
the purpose of the law was to make sin evident...and that, is where every single one of these lawkeepers fail in their understanding
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L
The church is a completely separate entity from Israel. A different program. The Church is not Israel. You are messed up man!
Do you read the Bible?
He answered,
"I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Matthew 15:24 (ESV2011
do we read the Bible Mike?
yes we do and we study it also
you are not a Jew and observing Jewish holy days and celebrations...given to Israel...will not make you Jewish
OK Mike. my OP in this thread stands then, and not much fruit or sense to continue in circles. You have gotten more adept, and have honed your craft with maams and sirs and politeness, to preach a mixed Gospel message.
This statement of yours, that YOU DON'T KNOW if Jesus' Sacrifice (Grace) is enough IS A MIXED GOSPEL.
May God Bless my brothers and sisters in Christ, who continue to defend the true Gospel in love.
This statement of yours, that YOU DON'T KNOW if Jesus' Sacrifice (Grace) is enough IS A MIXED GOSPEL.
May God Bless my brothers and sisters in Christ, who continue to defend the true Gospel in love.
post 449, and yes from the same tired thread
because of course only the very best of the very best teachers hang on youtube
forget the lexicons and various other study tools
it's the youtube teachers we need to embrace
good thing I do not get headaches or I would be getting one now.....
because of course only the very best of the very best teachers hang on youtube
forget the lexicons and various other study tools
it's the youtube teachers we need to embrace
good thing I do not get headaches or I would be getting one now.....
I know that post was not directed at me, and surely I dont agree with Mike on everything, only read a few of his posts, but many here are denying or not understanding Scriptual truth, and those wo are really in Messiah need to know...
There is no Jew (really should be Hebrew) and Gentile in Messiah, all in Messiah are Spiritual Israylites/Israylites, Body of Messiah, Notzaraim, children of Yah, etc...
Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."
Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."
Galations 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."
Psalam 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."
There is no Jew (really should be Hebrew) and Gentile in Messiah, all in Messiah are Spiritual Israylites/Israylites, Body of Messiah, Notzaraim, children of Yah, etc...
Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."
Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."
Galations 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."
Psalam 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."