Study to show yourself approved...

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Jul 1, 2016
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#1
Have you ever considered that when Paul wrote this letter to Timothy, the New Testament was not even written yet?
Certainly both Paul and Timothy were believers in Messiah.
The question I am asking, what "word of truth" was Timothy to study?


Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
 
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bikerchaz

Guest
#2
I would have loved to have been in the synagogues with Paul as he taught and preached Jesus from the scriptures he had. May be we will hear it one day, I would like to sit and listen to him reminisce about his time in the first century.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#3
Have you ever considered that when Paul wrote this letter to Timothy, the New Testament was not even written yet?
Certainly both Paul and Timothy were believers in Messiah.
The question I am asking, what "word of truth" was Timothy to study?


I would suggest the whole word of truth form Genesis through Revelation. Not in apart but in whole, now that we do have it.
 
Jul 1, 2016
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#4
I would suggest the whole word of truth form Genesis through Revelation. Not in apart but in whole, now that we do have it.
yes sir. I am very thankful we have the Bible that we have, but it is not the Bible that Timothy had, and least not in full.
So that does not answer the question.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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#5
Have you ever considered that when Paul wrote this letter to Timothy, the New Testament was not even written yet?
Certainly both Paul and Timothy were believers in Messiah.
The question I am asking, what "word of truth" was Timothy to study?


The testimony of JESUS
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
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#6
Have you ever considered that when Paul wrote this letter to Timothy, the New Testament was not even written yet?
Certainly both Paul and Timothy were believers in Messiah.
The question I am asking, what "word of truth" was Timothy to study?


We still need to study the Old Testament, we are just not under the old covenant. Those who did not know yet about the new covenant have an excuse, but there is no excuse for someone who knows the new covenant yet still lives by the old covenant (Romans 7:1-4).
 
Jul 1, 2016
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#7
We still need to study the Old Testament, we are just not under the old covenant. Those who did not know yet about the new covenant have an excuse, but there is no excuse for someone who knows the new covenant yet still lives by the old covenant (Romans 7:1-4).
It is good to be a part of the New Covenant!
Paul and Timothy were also under the New Covenant.

However, my sister, in my opinion, Romans 7:1-4 does not mean what most people think it does.
In my humble opinion, which could be wrong, one has to know the law to understand Romans 7:1-4.

We understand from Scripture, that God divorced the Northern Kingdom of Israel.
Mt. Sinai was a marriage covenant. After many years of troubles, and after the Kingdom of Israel was divided, God did divorce the Northern 10 tribes.
Part of the good news is this: God is going to take back His bride, Israel!!!
But wait, that would be a violation of Torah!
Romans 7:1-4 is explaining the mystery of how God will indeed remarry his bride, Israel, and do it legally!
You are dead to the law of marriage!

Most will scoff at this, but give it some thought.
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
#8
Have you ever considered that when Paul wrote this letter to Timothy, the New Testament was not even written yet?
Certainly both Paul and Timothy were believers in Messiah.
The question I am asking, what "word of truth" was Timothy to study?



Paul met the risen and living Lord Jesus on the road to Damascus

I think it would be wise to remember that Paul had no regard for the Judaizers

in fact, he disdained them and said this:

2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.

3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.5For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.

6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
7You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth? 8That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you.

9“A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.”10I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view.
The one who is throwing you into confusion, whoever that may be, will have to pay the penalty.

11Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
Galatians 5

Paul was an expert on the law...taught by the best...but he left it ALL behind once he met Jesus

that sums up the experience that converts from Judaism should have

it is perverse to go backwards and having met Christ, go back into the law

That, is what Paul is saying, what he taught and what the book of Galatians is about

of course the NT was not yet compiled, but we do know what Paul taught from his letters and it was LEAVE THE LAW and follow CHRIST

so yes, VERY important to RIGHTLY divide the word of TRUTH

by the way, isn't it interesting that Jesus said He was the TRUTH? not some truth or part of the truth or the way to the truth, BUT THE actual truth!

that's amazing!

 
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#9
To thikn that Paul wrote a letter and declared it Scripture is comically unrealistic.... Here is my letter I wrote yesterday, today it is Scripture! Yeah I think not. Paul could recite the first 5 books off memory alone and quoted the so called "OT" more times than most care to imagine or admit.
 
Jul 1, 2016
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#10
Yes ma'am, of course Yeshua is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
We all here agree on that, I think.

but to say Paul was writing a letter to Timothy to tell him to study his letters doesn't sound right, in my opinion, ma'am.
I was just curious to what written work, (if it was a written work), Timothy would be studying.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#11
yes sir. I am very thankful we have the Bible that we have, but it is not the Bible that Timothy had, and least not in full.
So that does not answer the question.
What part of it was missing from Timothy which was needed before a Timothy could first believe God.?

One third of human history had passed before the witness of God who was there in the beginning before he moved Moses working in Him to both will and do His good pleasure.

He told Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree. Was that enough for them to believe Him (have faith from Him )

The whole bible is the perfect law of God as the good news, gospel .
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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#12
A repackaged, more polite, "you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar" approach to the doctrine that still denies the finished work of our sweet Glorious Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ!
 
Jul 1, 2016
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#13
A repackaged, more polite, "you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar" approach to the doctrine that still denies the finished work of our sweet Glorious Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ!
how so, sir?
how does this thread "deny the finished work of Christ"?

can you explain or you just looking for the friendship points?
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
#14
Yes ma'am, of course Yeshua is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
We all here agree on that, I think.

but to say Paul was writing a letter to Timothy to tell him to study his letters doesn't sound right, in my opinion, ma'am.
I was just curious to what written work, (if it was a written work), Timothy would be studying.
well, actually no we do not Mike

BECAUSE you ADD to the fact that Jesus is ALL OF THE TRUTH and add your own truths

I will post some of those truths later on from your own threads

in the meantime, let's just admit what Paul said about those who wanted to turn back the clocks and have everyone become Jewish...convert from Christianity to Judaism

you can't ignore that and selectively only post what you think supports your viewpoint

you are insinuating that Paul was telling Timothy to study up on the OT scriptures...probably the 1st 5 books, that is often called the Pentateuch

ONLY the KJV translates the command to Timothy as study...and of course that is the translation you have used

let's take a look at how other translations handle it

from the KJ lexicon:

σπουδασον verb - aorist active middle - second person singular
spoudazo spoo-dad'-zo: to use speed, i.e. to make effort, be prompt or earnest -- do (give) diligence, be diligent (forward), endeavour, labour, study.

it becomes obvious that study is not necessarily the best word to use in this case

without going into all the other translations ( anyone can look these up and a little effort on the individuals' part is a good thing I think...shows a desire for truth and not just being spoon fed) and the way they handle that verb, it is really very safe to conclude that what Paul was actually saying, was not study, but rather:


Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

in fact, we are presented with the same word today...we must ACCURATELY handle the word of truth

and again, that is not the OT alone, unless you are trying to make the case that the entire NT is spurious?

so what is the truth Paul is speaking of to Timothy?

why THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST of course!!

it's staring us all right in the face and cannot be denied

again, the KJ is the ONLY BIble to translate that verb as study but even so, looking at the KJV lexicon, we see it is not the best choice

hope that helps your understanding! :)
 
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Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
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#15
The word "study" in this verse is a little different than the ones used in other places. It doesn't mean to read necessarily. It means more along this line "Make every effort to present yourself before God as a proven worker who has no need to be ashamed....."

This particular study is " to use diligence - make speed"
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
#16
The word "study" in this verse is a little different than the ones used in other places. It doesn't mean to read necessarily. It means more along this line "Make every effort to present yourself before God as a proven worker who has no need to be ashamed....."

This particular study is " to use diligence - make speed"
not to detract from your post at all, but check out my post above yours...you are correct in what you say and I have given the details
 
Jul 1, 2016
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#17
well, actually no we do not Mike

BECAUSE you ADD to the fact that Jesus is ALL OF THE TRUTH and add your own truths

I will post some of those truths later on from your own threads

in the meantime, let's just admit what Paul said about those who wanted to turn back the clocks and have everyone become Jewish...convert from Christianity to Judaism

you can't ignore that and selectively only post what you think supports your viewpoint

you are insinuating that Paul was telling Timothy to study up on the OT scriptures...probably the 1st 5 books, that is often called the Pentateuch

ONLY the KJV translates the command to Timothy as study...and of course that is the translation you have used

let's take a look at how other translations handle it

from the KJ lexicon:

σπουδασον verb - aorist active middle - second person singular
spoudazo spoo-dad'-zo: to use speed, i.e. to make effort, be prompt or earnest -- do (give) diligence, be diligent (forward), endeavour, labour, study.

it becomes obvious that study is not necessarily the best word to use in this case

without going into all the other translations ( anyone can look these up and a little effort on the individuals' part is a good thing I think...shows a desire for truth and not just being spoon fed) and the way they handle that verb, it is really very safe to conclude that what Paul was actually saying, was not study, but rather:


Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

in fact, we are presented with the same word today...we must ACCURATELY handle the word of truth

and again, that is not the OT alone, unless you are trying to make the case that the entire NT is spurious?

so what is the truth Paul is speaking of to Timothy?

why THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST of course!!

it's staring us all right in the face and cannot be denied

again, the KJ is the ONLY BIble to translate that verb as study but even so, looking at the KJV lexicon, we see it is not the best choice

hope that helps your understanding! :)
ok, now you are using good info to make your point. I like that.

although I am not sure why you say we don't all agree with John 14.6

and Paul did tell Timothy to study the 'Old Testament' Scriptures. I can prove that.

thank you for the study notes provided, at least that was good.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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#18
how so, sir?
how does this thread "deny the finished work of Christ"?

can you explain or you just looking for the friendship points?
Friendship point? If you are in Jesus Christ, that makes you my brother or sister who I love, and are automatically my friend.

Of course it's important to study the Old Testament, including the Law. The difference is the REASON we should study the O.T.

I believe we should because EVERY aspect, even every verse, in some way, points to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, and the fact that HE fulfilled the law and the Prophets.
I DO NOT believe we should study the O.T. and the law so that we are careful to obey the law. The whole purpose of the Law is to reveal our sin so that we understand we need a Savior to fulfill the Law, so that belief in Him will be accounted as our debt PAID IN FULL.

Now if you are preaching the completed, FINISHED work of JESUS, then I say Amen! And God bless you! If you are preaching studying the O.T. to obey the law then that by definition IS NOT trusting in His finished work.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#19
the fact that HE fulfilled the law and the Prophets.

Matt 5:17-18, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them. For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

All of the "OT" has not yet been fulfilled, the Messiah still has to return, the 7 Feast days are not only about the Sacrifice of Messiah butrather the entire works of Messiah, including Hiis return, aka "The Feast of Trumpets" but if people belive its already over they can be caught sleeping...

"Unless heaven and earth passes away'

"For the first heaven and the first earth had passed away"

has the first heaven and earth already passed away sir?
 
Jul 1, 2016
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#20
Friendship point? If you are in Jesus Christ, that makes you my brother or sister who I love, and are automatically my friend.

Of course it's important to study the Old Testament, including the Law. The difference is the REASON we should study the O.T.

I believe we should because EVERY aspect, even every verse, in some way, points to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, and the fact that HE fulfilled the law and the Prophets.
I DO NOT believe we should study the O.T. and the law so that we are careful to obey the law. The whole purpose of the Law is to reveal our sin so that we understand we need a Savior to fulfill the Law, so that belief in Him will be accounted as our debt PAID IN FULL.

Now if you are preaching the completed, FINISHED work of JESUS, then I say Amen! And God bless you! If you are preaching studying the O.T. to obey the law then that by definition IS NOT trusting in His finished work.
hold on friend.
you implied something that was denying the finished work of Christ in my post.
where is it?