The ever-changing ESV Bible

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Lifetrack

Senior Member
Oct 20, 2014
213
4
18
#2
Yeah right, i don't Believe this after one month... Are they pushed back?
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,646
1,396
113
#3
And, how is that different from the changing translations of the KJV?

It sounds as if they are merely allowing for improved understanding of nuances... fine tuning, as newer texts are discovered.

Just like the KJV was.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#4
And, how is that different from the changing translations of the KJV?

It sounds as if they are merely allowing for improved understanding of nuances... fine tuning, as newer texts are discovered.

Just like the KJV was

.
I agree 100%...the use of English words and their connotations change and so we need to update the language being used in order for others to read the scriptures with clarity.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#5
"But the means to that goal, we now see, is not to establish a permanent text but rather to allow for ongoing periodic updating of the text to reflect the realities of biblical scholarship such as textual discoveries or changes in English over time."

Whats wrong with this? I think its a good and sincere claim.

They are not perfect so they must correct their translation over time.

I would trust this translation more than some "freezed and ever perfect idol" one.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#6
IMO, we should check the texts regularly to look for changes not needed. Denominations, for example, change without a warning of any kind. It's only a matter of time it will happen to some of the translations,too.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,638
3,533
113
#7
And, how is that different from the changing translations of the KJV?

It sounds as if they are merely allowing for improved understanding of nuances... fine tuning, as newer texts are discovered.

Just like the KJV was.
Can you show where the KJV was updated because of newer texts?

The context of the King James Bible has never once been changed.

Since 1611, there have been standardized spelling changes in the King James Bible. In the early editions of the KJB, words like "bear," "dark" and "fear" had the letter "e" on end of them. Words like "mooued," "bee" and "mee" were changed into "moved," "be" and "me." These changes made no change in the context or in any doctrine.

There were also changes because of typographical errors. These errors were hardly avoidable because the printing press in the 1600's were set manually, not like the technological printers of the present day. The work of printing books in the 1400's to 1600's was done by a very slow process. Each individual letter of a certain word was to be placed in the printing press by hand, each letter being upside down and backwards, so printing errors were expected. It was an extreme and weary task to complete the hundreds of thousands of letters in the KJB in a specified time limit. If we today, having things such as Microsoft Word and Spell Check (which are still prone to make errors in writing articles and books), then imagine how hard it was back then.

The King James Bible was first printed in Gothic type, but later changed to Roman type. In the Gothic type text, the letter "s" looked like the letter "f", the letter "u" looked like the letter "v" and the letter "j" looked like the letter "i". Again this did not change the context any at all.

Whenever the issue is brought up concerning the "revisions" of the King James Bible, they are just trying to make you think that the King James Bible contained errors that corrupted doctrines, but nothing is farther from the truth. There were no "revisions" in the KJB, only editions that corrected simple things that had no effect on the context. The underlying Hebrew and Greek texts of the KJB have never changed in over 400 years. Even the American Bible Society (certainly no friend of the KJB) said this about the "revisions" of the KJB, "The English Bible, as left by the translators (of 1611), has come down to us unaltered in respect to its text. With the exception of typographical errors and changes required by the progress of orthography in the English language, the text of our present Bibles remains unchanged, and without variation from the original copy as left by the translators".
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,685
13,375
113
#8
...With the exception of typographical errors and changes required by the progress of orthography in the English language, the text of our present Bibles remains unchanged, and without variation from the original copy as left by the translators".
While the KJV is, for the most part, the same now as in 1611 (which is good), it carries the glaring weakness of having archaic language and meaning. Words which meant one thing in 1611 mean something different now. "Conversation", "suffer", and "bottles" all are interpreted incorrectly because the meaning has changed. Regardless of all the other issues around English translations, this one can make the truth less accessible for readers. Ultimately, accessible truth is the reason there are translations at all. :)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,638
3,533
113
#9
While the KJV is, for the most part, the same now as in 1611 (which is good), it carries the glaring weakness of having archaic language and meaning. Words which meant one thing in 1611 mean something different now. "Conversation", "suffer", and "bottles" all are interpreted incorrectly because the meaning has changed. Regardless of all the other issues around English translations, this one can make the truth less accessible for readers. Ultimately, accessible truth is the reason there are translations at all. :)
Less accessible? Hogwash. One needs to study the word of truth, not change words to fit my watered down English. Don't mess with the word of God, instead, read it, study it, and believe it. The weakness is not the KJV's, if anything, it's ours.

Why hasn't the word "dung" been updated in your new Bibles with an updated word used today in order to "understand" the passage better?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,685
13,375
113
#10
Less accessible? Hogwash. One needs to study the word of truth, not change words to fit my watered down English. Don't mess with the word of God, instead, read it, study it, and believe it. The weakness is not the KJV's, if anything, it's ours.
Watered-down English? Come on, John, you can do better. Does the word "suffer" mean today what it meant in 1611? Simply, no it doesn't. Is "allow" a common use of the term today? Does the change in meaning indicate or represent a "watering down" of the language? Elizabethan English was no more "pure" than modern English.

To give you a parallel, consider "authentein" in 1 Tim 2:12. There is evidence that it had many meanings over a few hundred years. The Greek language changed over time, just as English has. No water required.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,646
1,396
113
#11
I haven't studied it, since I don't worship the KJV, but didn't it mention "unicorns" in some of the earliest iterations?
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,646
1,396
113
#12
[SUP]21 [/SUP]He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the Lord his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Surely there is no enchantment against Jacob, neither is there any divination against Israel: according to this time it shall be said of Jacob and of Israel, What hath God wrought!
Numbers 23..... googlied it....

Now, we all know that there is no such animal...right?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,685
13,375
113
#13
I haven't studied it, since I don't worship the KJV, but didn't it mention "unicorns" in some of the earliest iterations?
Yes... there is a reasonable explanation which traces "unicorn" through the Latin to "rhinoceros". The Linnean (Latin) name for the Greater One-Horned Rhinoceros is "Rhinoceros unicornis".
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,646
1,396
113
#14
The point is.... language changes... meanings change. Being able to tweak words in a translation to make them relevant in modern language is a good thing.

Don't say unicorn, if you are talking rhinos....

Change is not always about scriptural dogma. Sometimes it's unicorn/rhino.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,033
1,025
113
New Zealand
#15
It seems to be a great intention to have a bible that adjusts to archeological findings that are biblically sound ie.. are harmonious or confirm what is already sound.

I haven't studied the history of many bibles.. only briefly.

I guess if the KJV had sound biblical text to draw from to begin with.. then what need would there be for any future archeological finds to modify it?

I know when the Dead Sea Scrolls came out they CONFIRMED what was already written in regards to the Old Testament being unchanged.. so there was no need to update anything.

Anyhoo.. I think I will go and study the history of bibles soon.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,638
3,533
113
#16
It seems to be a great intention to have a bible that adjusts to archeological findings that are biblically sound ie.. are harmonious or confirm what is already sound.

I haven't studied the history of many bibles.. only briefly.

I guess if the KJV had sound biblical text to draw from to begin with.. then what need would there be for any future archeological finds to modify it?

I know when the Dead Sea Scrolls came out they CONFIRMED what was already written in regards to the Old Testament being unchanged.. so there was no need to update anything.

Anyhoo.. I think I will go and study the history of bibles soon.
I'd rather stick with the Bible that doesn't have to adjust to anything, archeological findings adjust to it. I encourage you to study the history of the Bible on your own. Remember, there's one and then there's the rest.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
2,943
113
#17
My Greek professor is on the translation revision committees of both the ESV and NIV. The ESV committee does not meet often, and although when the scholars were first brought together to work on the translation, they were told it was going to be a "fresh" translation, and using the Greek and Hebrew and the latest information from the newly discovered manuscripts But the PTB ended up screening everything and keeping to the KJV, instead of actually using the Greek and Hebrew to translate from. They committee was very disappointed, and I think this concession is just to try and silence voices who can rightly point to the errors in the KJV and the modern version of it!

Language changes and it is sad that ESV will be mostly locked out of that process! In 400 years, they will have basically another obsolete Bible, just like the KJV!
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,685
13,375
113
#18
I'd rather stick with the Bible that doesn't have to adjust to anything, archeological findings adjust to it. I encourage you to study the history of the Bible on your own. Remember, there's one and then there's the rest.
The "one", of course, being the original languages.
 
E

eph610

Guest
#19
Lets create a thread which makes the KJV Bible better than anyone else....and then smugly condemn those that use other versions, because there has never been a thread like that created before....

lets not, and say we did, because there has been....

Can we please come to full age and get past these kinds of rehashed threads....
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#20
whaaaaa


I wanna thrash it out

thrash thrash thrash

me go sleepy now