Sanctification - the wife of the husband - the husband of the wife

[PeterJens]

For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
1 cor 7:14

The unbelieving partner is looked at as not contaminating the believing party.
But what does sanctified represent? The taking of something unholy and nullifying
its effect on others.

All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them.
2 cor 5:18-19

The above verse is saying through Christ the world is reconciled to God, but only the
part that is in Christ. There is a large distinction between saying the whole world is
saved by Christ, and only those in Christ are saved.

If you hold that everything is in Christ, with or without faith, then all are saved.
If you hold to be in Christ is only through faith in Him, then only believers are saved.

Some seem to be arguing if an unbeliever can be sanctified and the effects of sin on
others annulled, then all sin is annulled by the cross.

It is interesting how you view being in Christ effects the meaning of a verse, rather
than the verse defining the meaning. It is why simply quoting a verse does not resolve
certain issues, but simply confirms you existing model of theology, so is not a way of
distinguishing truth from falsehood.

 

[trofimus]

I would only add that this Scripture is about somebody, who is turned to Christ already being in a marriage.

Christians should not marry unbelievers and argument by this verse.

 

[KingdomCome]

For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
1 cor 7:14

The unbelieving partner is looked at as not contaminating the believing party.
But what does sanctified represent? The taking of something unholy and nullifying
its effect on others.

All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them.
2 cor 5:18-19

The above verse is saying through Christ the world is reconciled to God, but only the
part that is in Christ. There is a large distinction between saying the whole world is
saved by Christ, and only those in Christ are saved.

If you hold that everything is in Christ, with or without faith, then all are saved.
If you hold to be in Christ is only through faith in Him, then only believers are saved.

Some seem to be arguing if an unbeliever can be sanctified and the effects of sin on
others annulled, then all sin is annulled by the cross.

It is interesting how you view being in Christ effects the meaning of a verse, rather
than the verse defining the meaning. It is why simply quoting a verse does not resolve
certain issues, but simply confirms you existing model of theology, so is not a way of
distinguishing truth from falsehood.

Only the spirit of God can teach the truth and guide you to the correct interpretation. Without being born of the spirit, you're left with your own interpretation which you will never know to be true or not. This is why there are so many different interpretations of the same scriptures particularly the OT prophecies.

 

[PeterJens]

Only the spirit of God can teach the truth and guide you to the correct interpretation. Without being born of the spirit, you're left with your own interpretation which you will never know to be true or not. This is why there are so many different interpretations of the same scriptures particularly the OT prophecies.

Though I agree in the absolute sense, I have come to the conclusion that people tend
to blind themselves to their own bias and do not see how things can be viewed differently.

It made me realise how easy it is to people with closed minds and lead by a teacher can
read a passage and it make sense from what the teacher says.

It is important then to stand back and look at other interpretations and appreciate how
sincere people can hold a different perspective.

For instance universalism has a real appeal if you hold people are all redeemable.

The problem we have is to distinguish that which is holy from that which is unclean.
And we are very poor at this because it is defined by the Lord. Our tendency is
always towards compromise.

 

[KingdomCome]

Though I agree in the absolute sense, I have come to the conclusion that people tend
to blind themselves to their own bias and do not see how things can be viewed differently.

It made me realise how easy it is to people with closed minds and lead by a teacher can
read a passage and it make sense from what the teacher says.

It is important then to stand back and look at other interpretations and appreciate how
sincere people can hold a different perspective.

For instance universalism has a real appeal if you hold people are all redeemable.

The problem we have is to distinguish that which is holy from that which is unclean.
And we are very poor at this because it is defined by the Lord. Our tendency is
always towards compromise.

Those who are reborn in the spirit of God are not free from the influence of Satan until the flesh has been destroyed but those who have been taught the whole truth know how to deal with Satan's influence. Once the spirit is free from the flesh after it is destroyed, never again will the spirit deal with Satan.

 

[PeterJens]

Those who are reborn in the spirit of God are not free from the influence of Satan until the flesh has been destroyed but those who have been taught the whole truth know how to deal with Satan's influence. Once the spirit is free from the flesh after it is destroyed, never again will the spirit deal with Satan.

Sounds a nice theory.
We will always have to deal with satan and the enemies of God.
Jesus was tempted by satan and he responded with the right attitude to the Lord.

It is always a question of choice.

 

[Grace777x70]

There is a universal aspect to the work of Christ for man-kind but sadly scripture is clear that some reject the work of Christ and His love and grace. It is hard to fathom someone doing this when we really know Him for who He really is.

The truth is that scripture shows that God is indeed the Savior of the world through the Lord Jesus Christ finished work - they still have to believe and receive it in order to experience it.

John 4:42 (NASB)

[SUP]42 [/SUP] and they were saying to the woman, "It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world."


1 John 4:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.


1 Timothy 4:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers
.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Prescribe and teach these things.
On God's end - all things are reconciled and that is our ministry now - to tell people that they are reconciled through Christ - so reconcile yourselves to God back.

2 Corinthians 5:18-20 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,

[SUP]19 [/SUP] namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

[SUP]20 [/SUP] Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

If they believed what God has already done in Christ - they will experience the truth in their own lives. Reject the work of Christ and they will only have their own D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness to rely on when they stand before God.

 

[KingdomCome]

Sounds a nice theory.
We will always have to deal with satan and the enemies of God.
Jesus was tempted by satan and he responded with the right attitude to the Lord.

It is always a question of choice.

Only until the end of the first age. Then the Lord will destroy all flesh with the earth as planned.

2 Peter 3
10: But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.
11: Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
12: waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire!
13: But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

 

[PeterJens]

In my thinking the verse
"Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy." 1 cor 7:14

This implies a situational holiness rather than something that cleanses and works through
innocents. But this might not be true. It is literally children of believers have a different
relationship to God than children of non-believers. Salvation if they die before the age
of responsibility is probably guaranteed.

Unfortunately this opens the door to a more sacramental view of holiness, which parts of the
church have followed for centuries. But then again handkerchiefs were held to have healing
properties from Peter, so this is not an idea without merit.

I have not worked through in my mind these principles, but grace, blessing through the
generations, is something innate within the Lord and His presence and which He talks about.

 

[PeterJens]

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Eph 2:8-9

Jesus is the saviour of the world, if the world is prepared to believe in Him.
"that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

If you do not believe you will not be saved. Without belief there is no salvation.

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
John 3:36

Now double minded men will always try and take verses that say Jesus is the
saviour so all are saved, before they are actually saved from where they are.

It is like saying a lifeboat once launched to save the people on the ship, has
already saved them before it has gone through the whole process of saving
people, rather than it is the method of their being saved if they make
it back to shore.

What is strange though scripture is clear about faith and salvation, those
who want everyone saved no matter their state or position, invent condemnation
for those who preach what scripture plainly teaches, you must believe in Christ
to be saved and follow Him.

 

[KingdomCome]

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Eph 2:8-9

Jesus is the saviour of the world, if the world is prepared to believe in Him.
"that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

If you do not believe you will not be saved. Without belief there is no salvation.

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
John 3:36

Now double minded men will always try and take verses that say Jesus is the
saviour so all are saved, before they are actually saved from where they are.

It is like saying a lifeboat once launched to save the people on the ship, has
already saved them before it has gone through the whole process of saving
people, rather than it is the method of their being saved if they make
it back to shore.

What is strange though scripture is clear about faith and salvation, those
who want everyone saved no matter their state or position, invent condemnation
for those who preach what scripture plainly teaches, you must believe in Christ
to be saved and follow Him.

Satan doesn't want anyone to be saved so he will convince those who are not reborn in the spirit that there's no chance of them being saved. Those of us who are taught by the spirit of God know differently.

 

[PeterJens]

Amazement.

I am not a sacramentalist, but I can see how these ideas can develop.
It flows from the concept you have faith, but it departs from you, though you
continue in religion, but without conviction.

Now Hyper Grace is almost saying the same thing. If you once buy the ticket
you have landed, and no matter what that is it. The problem with this teaching
is it creates empty religious practise, and buying in to a theology or ceremonies
which are thought to be helpful in buying salvation.

Now the camoflage is to claim they are not religious at all but talking about reality,
but this is just deception. It is just taking one form of religion and creating another,
condemning the first while establishing the same thing but in a different guise.

Lying like this is just self deception, and will never lead to truth or the Lord.
It is this movement that is attempting to destroy that which was before with a
better revelation, but is in fact raising peoples hopes into failure, which gives faith
a bad name and destroys future hope for those to come to Jesus after such a
deep deception. And rather than face the truth they continually slander everyone
who does not agree with them.

 

[PeterJens]

Satan doesn't want anyone to be saved so he will convince those who are not reborn in the spirit that there's no chance of them being saved. Those of us who are taught by the spirit of God know differently.

It is God who plants the words of life in a persons heart, and if they have good soil it
will take root and grow. Your words have a context you are not disclosing.
Only those born from on High will be saved. What are you saying you believe?

 

[KingdomCome]

Amazement.

I am not a sacramentalist, but I can see how these ideas can develop.
It flows from the concept you have faith, but it departs from you, though you
continue in religion, but without conviction.

Now Hyper Grace is almost saying the same thing. If you once buy the ticket
you have landed, and no matter what that is it. The problem with this teaching
is it creates empty religious practise, and buying in to a theology or ceremonies
which are thought to be helpful in buying salvation.

Now the camoflage is to claim they are not religious at all but talking about reality,
but this is just deception. It is just taking one form of religion and creating another,
condemning the first while establishing the same thing but in a different guise.

Lying like this is just self deception, and will never lead to truth or the Lord.
It is this movement that is attempting to destroy that which was before with a
better revelation, but is in fact raising peoples hopes into failure, which gives faith
a bad name and destroys future hope for those to come to Jesus after such a
deep deception. And rather than face the truth they continually slander everyone
who does not agree with them.

That's why I only listen to the spirit of God and not the spirit of Satan. Those of us in the full knowledge of the Lord knows Satan very well. He can't possibly deceive us.

 

[Grace777x70]

Understanding spiritual truths do not come from humanistic reasoning. We need to rely completely on the Holy Spirit to reveal the things of God to us. Our natural humanistic mind cannot accept the things of God because they are spiritually understood.

Spiritual truths are foolishness to our natural mind. Which is why we need to have our minds renewed to the great spiritual truths of the complete salvation that is in Christ alone.

We are all in the same boat here - relying on the Spirit of God to reveal Christ to us.

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,

[SUP]13 [/SUP] which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.


[SUP]14 [/SUP] But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

 

[KingdomCome]

It is God who plants the words of life in a persons heart, and if they have good soil it
will take root and grow. Your words have a context you are not disclosing.
Only those born from on High will be saved. What are you saying you believe?

If you are reborn in the spirit of God, then you will know the spirit that I listen to and obey all it's commandments.

 

[PeterJens]

If you are reborn in the spirit of God, then you will know the spirit that I listen to and obey all it's commandments.

I do not disagree with you.
I always stand amazed when people decry righteousness, purity, love, holiness, victory and claim
to know Jesus.

 

[garee]

This implies a situational holiness rather than something that cleanses and works through
innocents. But this might not be true. It is literally children of believers have a different
relationship to God than children of non-believers. Salvation if they die before the age
of responsibility is probably guaranteed.

From my perspective I would say it has a potential to work and clean if ....He is applies the work of salvation to a heart..

I don’t think there is any age of accountability. As soon as we a born we are declared sinners that must be born again.

Situational holiness places a person under the word of God but does not guarantee a person will be given a new spirit and new heart as one born again.

We can train a child on the way we believe he should go and that training can be used if God performs that which is appointed to them .

We can plant the seed and water it but God alone causes the new spirit life. In that way they can grow if the lord applies the gospel to their heart making it soft as the “good ground” needed to respect the incorruptible seed of the word. He must make the ground good before any rebirth can appear..

 

[PeterJens]

Understanding spiritual truths do not come from humanistic reasoning.

This is such a general statement as to be miss-leading.

Paul had put all his confidence in Christ and the cross.
It is this that is deemed foolish and empty by the world.

What cults do is say logic, or relationship experience has no bearing on spiritual
things, so you have to accept their teaching without any filters.

Jesus says the opposite. Let your heart speak to you, purify that which is within
and you will see God. The only thing that stops us knowing God is our impurity
and sin, that clings to everything we do and think.

I have spoken to many "spiritual" christians who have so much emotional and life
baggage everything they hold as dear and everything they condemn is the wrong
way round. But that does not stop them.

We only see out on the world through our hearts, which is why it is impossible to
know God unless He chooses to start a work within us. But once started we are called
to participate. It is this second step that HG people find so hard to accept, because
their history is of so much failure it breaks ones heart.

But then how often have you heard people talking about having a pure heart, walking
blamelessly, having love being your driving ethic through everything you do?
Very rarely. But this is where Gods heart is.

 

[KingdomCome]

I do not disagree with you.
I always stand amazed when people decry righteousness, purity, love, holiness, victory and claim
to know Jesus.

You're right. These are the one's who believe they can perform miracles and do all sorts of things for the deity they imagine within their mind but have never been reborn by the spirit of God. I have witnessed thousands of Christians like that.

Matthew 7
21: "Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22: On that day many will say to me, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
23: And then will I declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.'