Perfected forever

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not get lately how people do not take the word of God literally as it says, and deny we are perfected the moment we trust Christ, and are born of his spirit.

Heb 10; 14For by one offering he has PERFECTED forever those who are being sanctified.

did the author mean it or not.

I mean, who are the ones who are being sanctified?

1. The world? No. The word we are told is dead
2. The Lost? No, The lost still need to be found
3. The pagan? No
4. The jew lost in Judaism? No
5. The muslim following Muhamad?
6. The hundu, the (insert what ever world religion I have missed)
7. The false prophets of christianity?
8. The false teachers?
9. The one who is in church, but have not yet repented and come to faith of Christ?

I doubt very seriously anyone would say any of these people are in the process of being sanctified (made into the image of Christ)

so then, who is it that the author of hebrews is talking about, that are perfected forever?

 

[Angela53510]

There is a vast difference between positional justification and sanctification than our experience right now. God does see all the future! He knows all believers will be "complete" (a much better translation of teleos) one day - when we see him face to face.

This statement is totally true, if you look at the perfect work Christ did in the past, and the perfect future we will enjoy with Jesus when he returns.

Positionally, we are "being" sanctified!

"But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet.14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." Hebrews 10:12-14 ESV

"μιᾷ γὰρ προσφορᾷ τετελείωκεν εἰς τὸ διηνεκὲς τοὺς ἁγιαζομένους." Hebrews 10:14 Greek

The two verbs are very important and they work together. τετελείωκεν or teleleioken is a Perfect Active Indicative. It means to complete or perfect. It indicates a one time event (Jesus sacrifice on the cross) with a continuing result completed in the process of the participle ἁγιαζομένους or ayiazomenous. This verb is in the Present Passive and is a Participle and means "to be sanctified." So it works together with the verb teleleioken to point to the sacrifice of Jesus - that is perfect! And the fact that we are in the process of being made holy.

"Being"indicates a process. The present participle indicates this process is on-going. Other Scriptures show us that the job will be complete, when Jesus returns.

"Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appearswe shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2

"12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known." 1 Cor. 13:12


The opening line in your OP, is a wrong theory, and certainly a poor and unscriptural doctrine. Plus, if you are really looking in context, Hebrews 10 is not about us at all! It is about how Jesus fulfilled the requirements for a perfect sacrifice. Do not make verses about us, when the purpose of the chapter is to delineate what Jesus did (for us, yes!)! But mostly about Jesus being perfect, and paving the way for us to be sanctified over this life as we walk with him.

 

[disciplemike]

brother, if people were perfected at the moment they "trust" in Christ,
The New Testament would have only been like two pages long.
Paul made a career out of correcting "believers".

 

[eternally-gratefull]

wrong theory?

Your right, there is a HUGE difference between positional justification (also known as being perfected in christ) which is also called by many positional sanctification. vs what many call conditional sanctification.

Our position in Christ is perfect. Our actions day to day are, or at least should be growing or maturing into christ-like actions (as we are sanctified) however, as paul mentions to the Corinthian church, Many people who have been perfected in Christ (positionally) are still babes in Christ and still need fed milk, long after they have been established as Christ's children.

If you do not believe one is perfected in Christ, and in the process of being sanctified, eventually to be glorified (where position and condition finally meet 100 %. then I must question what you actually believe the gospel does.

also. Why did you refuse to answer my questions? Who is the author talking about when he said they are in the process of being sanctified. Because the author makes it clear. THEY ALL HAVE BEEN PERFECTED FOREVER.


as for the context. It is about Christ sacrifice, It is about us also. Why do you think the author continued wiht things like this.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. [SUP]24 [/SUP]And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, [SUP]25 [/SUP]not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

How can we have this faith without wavering if we do not believe we are perfected in Christ? We can;t. all we can do is rely on ourselves. and pray we are good enough to make it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

brother, if people were perfected at the moment they "trust" in Christ,
The New Testament would have only been like two pages long.
Paul made a career out of correcting "believers".

so the author lied?

How can one be perfected forever, while they are being sanctified? Jesus is not going to come back down and offer himself up again, If we are not perfected forever. we have no hope. Jesus died 2000 years ago, before we committed our first sin.

hmm..

Positional sanctification. that is being IN CHRIST, it is also called. being perfected forever.

 

[Grace777x70]

Christians are perfected in their inner man that is in Christ - the new creation whi9ch is why John says in 1 John 3:9 and 5:18 that the one born of God cannot sin..

They need to have their minds renewed to walk out what is already in them in Christ. I could post loads of scriptures that say we are both perfect and yet still walking this out in our natural lives here on this earth. I have posted loads of scriptures in the past on this subject.

We are to work out what is already in us. If we are not perfect when we die - then we will not be in heaven. God doesn't miraculously make us perfect to be in heaven just because we die. There is no scripture that says we are made "perfect" because we die.

No, a thousand times - No!. Christ ahs made us that way in our inner man of the heart where Christ dwells forever.

But Christ has already done the work for that part. We are the righteousness of God in Christ.

We still have the flesh to contend with which is why we walk by the spirit and we will not fulfill the flesh to do "it's" lusts.

We really need to understand the circumcision of the heart from the body of the flesh in Col. 2:11 in order to grow up in Christ.

We need to know the difference between being perfected in our new creation in Christ - being sanctified - which just means "set apart" for use. and godliness which is our behavior. Religion mixes these all up and we end up with a complete mess.

 

[Skinski7]

Salvation is not a position.

Salvation is a manifest state in which our heart has been purged of all iniquity and we have been made pure by which we love God with all our heart, soul and mind, and our neighbour as ourselves.

The deception of a 'positional salvation' by which it is taught that a tree can produce both good and bad fruit is Satanic to the core.

Jesus can truly save us FROM sin by which we are made free indeed, for Jesus gave Himself for us to redeem us from all iniquity and to purify us, a peculiar people zealous of righteoisness. There is no condemnation upon those whom are in Christ Jesus whom walk after the Spirit by which the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in them, for it is the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ which sets us free from the law of sin and death.

Salvation is an abiding manifest state in which all things have been made new and old things have tfuly passed away, our character having been totally reformed fhrough the love of God being shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Spirit, our spirits quickened unto life by the grace of God, having worked together,ie, yielded our hearts to God, by which we have been truly made the righteousness of God in Him, not in position but in reality.

The law of God truly written upon our hearts and in our minds. Inwardly pure and thus outwardly santified, we walk by a faith that works by love, love which works no ill.

The children of God are manifest to the world that we do not sin, for in Him is no sin and in abiding in Him we walk as He walked keeping His commandments being doers of the word and not hearers only.

He who does what is right is righteous and he who sins is of the devil. Let no man deceive you by any means.

Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God, we have been purified through obedience to the truth by the Spirit by which we love one another with pure hearts fervently, abiding in the Spirit of Jesus Christ we have abundant life and true peace.

Thank you Lord Jesus for saving me.



Video - Salvation - Positional or Manifest - A System of Error Exposed
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4EZp0tvX1tQ

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh no, Th sinless perfect crowed has invaded my thread.

Run people run,, Or just put him on ignore. I still want to know why people deny positional sanctification, or perfection by justification.

(the term justify in greek means to be declaried righteious. Declared innocent of wrongdoing, Or to be (as far as the accusations brought against someone (perfect)

 

[Grace777x70]

We have salvation because we have Christ. Christ Himself is our salvation. Christ is in us and we are in Him. He is our only life. We are joined as one in the spirit forever.

Colossians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

We are a new creation in Christ now - in our inner man. We are not slowly becoming a new creation - that's the nonsense belief system of the D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness humanistic mindset. This mindset is really denying the Lord's work for us on the cross and resurrection.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am done with this long day, Going to head home and spend with my lovely wife, and a day with my wonderful church family tomorrow. so will not be back probably until monday. I still hope to get some good conversation going. I think people misunderstand what others mean when they speak of positional sanctification, or spiritual perfection (justification) Maybe it will help us come together.

then again, maybe not

 

[Skinski7]

Justification has to do with God reckoning our faith as righteousness despite having past rebellion to our account.

The remission of past sins is the free gift of God, not forgiveness of ongoing wickedness. Forgiveness of ongoing wickedness would be a license to sin and would mark God as unrighteous.

Abraham's faith was reckoned as righteousness because his faith was faithfulness and fidelity to God. God led and Abraham followed, hence Abraham walked in the steps of faith, did the deeds of faith, all wrought through the obedience of faith.

When we truly yield our hearts to God having laid aside all filthiness and superfluity of naughtinees, receiving the implanted Word within by which we are doers of the Word, walking in accordance with the will of God then God reckons such faithfulness as rughteousness.

We may not know much but our hearts are clean and we thus experience life and peace, true fellowship with the Father, for we are walking in the light as He is in the light.

We then grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, as little choldren we heed the teaching and leading of God our Father.

This is the abundant life, a life of real belief and faith, a life of love and service, we having been redeemed, set free, from every lawless deed and made pure, whereby we are zealous of righteousness.

Video - Biblical Righteousness
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eIf8o-PTTrs

 

[Grace777x70]

We will never be any more righteous than we are the day we receive Christ. We can grow in the "fruits of this righteousness" as manifested in our outward behavior but this comes from the fact that we already are new creations in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness. That doesn't change.

The new creation in Christ always remains righteous because we are joined as one with the Lord.

Righteous deeds do NOT make us righteous. Jesus Christ Himself makes us righteous.

Abraham was counted as being righteous because he believed God. Belief in God and what He has said is what makes one righteous.

 

[Blain]

I do not get lately how people do not take the word of God literally as it says, and deny we are perfected the moment we trust Christ, and are born of his spirit.

Heb 10; 14For by one offering he has PERFECTED forever those who are being sanctified.

did the author mean it or not.

I mean, who are the ones who are being sanctified?

1. The world? No. The word we are told is dead
2. The Lost? No, The lost still need to be found
3. The pagan? No
4. The jew lost in Judaism? No
5. The muslim following Muhamad?
6. The hundu, the (insert what ever world religion I have missed)
7. The false prophets of christianity?
8. The false teachers?
9. The one who is in church, but have not yet repented and come to faith of Christ?

I doubt very seriously anyone would say any of these people are in the process of being sanctified (made into the image of Christ)

so then, who is it that the author of hebrews is talking about, that are perfected forever?

I think before i give a detailed response I should ask you what you believe it means when it says we are perfected?

 

[notmyown]

Justification has to do with God reckoning our faith as righteousness despite having past rebellion to our account.

The remission of past sins is the free gift of God, not forgiveness of ongoing wickedness. Forgiveness of ongoing wickedness would be a license to sin and would mark God as unrighteous.

Abraham's faith was reckoned as righteousness because his faith was faithfulness and fidelity to God. God led and Abraham followed, hence Abraham walked in the steps of faith, did the deeds of faith, all wrought through the obedience of faith.

When we truly yield our hearts to God having laid aside all filthiness and superfluity of naughtinees, receiving the implanted Word within by which we are doers of the Word, walking in accordance with the will of God then God reckons such faithfulness as rughteousness.

We may not know much but our hearts are clean and we thus experience life and peace, true fellowship with the Father, for we are walking in the light as He is in the light.

We then grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, as little choldren we heed the teaching and leading of God our Father.

This is the abundant life, a life of real belief and faith, a life of love and service, we having been redeemed, set free, from every lawless deed and made pure, whereby we are zealous of righteousness.

Video - Biblical Righteousness
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eIf8o-PTTrs

so we have to lay aside 'superfluity of naughtiness' to be saved? but a modicum of naughtiness is okay?

this is bondage, not abundant life and it sure ain't the Gospel.
which i see you still have not learned, to my sadness.

please, show me this Bible passage that says God reckons faithfulness as righteousness.

specifically, now!

 

[notmyown]

I am done with this long day, Going to head home and spend with my lovely wife, and a day with my wonderful church family tomorrow. so will not be back probably until monday. I still hope to get some good conversation going. I think people misunderstand what others mean when they speak of positional sanctification, or spiritual perfection (justification) Maybe it will help us come together.

then again, maybe not

sometimes, it's semantics. Angela's post makes sense to me due to the way it's worded.
and because i believe it's true... lol!

we should be patient and keep trying. but first, enjoy the evening with your dear wife.

 

[Gr8grace]

There is a vast difference between positional justification and sanctification than our experience right now. God does see all the future! He knows all believers will be "complete" (a much better translation of teleos) one day - when we see him face to face.

This statement is totally true, if you look at the perfect work Christ did in the past, and the perfect future we will enjoy with Jesus when he returns.

Positionally, we are "being" sanctified!

"But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet.14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." Hebrews 10:12-14 ESV

"μιᾷ γὰρ προσφορᾷ τετελείωκεν εἰς τὸ διηνεκὲς τοὺς ἁγιαζομένους." Hebrews 10:14 Greek

The two verbs are very important and they work together. τετελείωκεν or teleleioken is a Perfect Active Indicative. It means to complete or perfect. It indicates a one time event (Jesus sacrifice on the cross) with a continuing result completed in the process of the participle ἁγιαζομένους or ayiazomenous. This verb is in the Present Passive and is a Participle and means "to be sanctified." So it works together with the verb teleleioken to point to the sacrifice of Jesus - that is perfect! And the fact that we are in the process of being made holy.

"Being"indicates a process. The present participle indicates this process is on-going. Other Scriptures show us that the job will be complete, when Jesus returns.

"Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appearswe shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2

"12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known." 1 Cor. 13:12


The opening line in your OP, is a wrong theory, and certainly a poor and unscriptural doctrine. Plus, if you are really looking in context, Hebrews 10 is not about us at all! It is about how Jesus fulfilled the requirements for a perfect sacrifice. Do not make verses about us, when the purpose of the chapter is to delineate what Jesus did (for us, yes!)! But mostly about Jesus being perfect, and paving the way for us to be sanctified over this life as we walk with him.

Yeah, the two verbs work together for THOSE who are being sanctified in their daily walk.

Those who are perfected(the moment we believe/the very righteousness of Christ is imputed to the believer) Are also being sanctified through living the Christian way of life in time.

Christ's perfect sacrifice guarantee's glorification salvation for every single believer..........they are perfected. And Heb 10:14 points this fact out. It is a compliment of Paul's "the righteousness of Christ in every believer."

 

[notmyown]

Righteous deeds do NOT make us righteous. Jesus Christ Himself makes us righteous.

*applauds*

TRUER WORDS, BRO, TRUER WORDS!

and a good thread in which to say 'em, too. lolol

 

[notmyown]

I think before i give a detailed response I should ask you what you believe it means when it says we are perfected?

here's wisdom

__________
i am seriously under slept and seriously need to sleep. talking waaaaay too much.
g'night, friends.

 

[Gr8grace]

I do not get lately how people do not take the word of God literally as it says, and deny we are perfected the moment we trust Christ, and are born of his spirit.

Heb 10; 14For by one offering he has PERFECTED forever those who are being sanctified.

did the author mean it or not.

I mean, who are the ones who are being sanctified?

1. The world? No. The word we are told is dead
2. The Lost? No, The lost still need to be found
3. The pagan? No
4. The jew lost in Judaism? No
5. The muslim following Muhamad?
6. The hundu, the (insert what ever world religion I have missed)
7. The false prophets of christianity?
8. The false teachers?
9. The one who is in church, but have not yet repented and come to faith of Christ?

I doubt very seriously anyone would say any of these people are in the process of being sanctified (made into the image of Christ)

so then, who is it that the author of hebrews is talking about, that are perfected forever?

Because the majority of unbelievers AND believers think we have some work to do......................for salvation.

They don't understand that our work is a privilege because of salvation. And not an obligation for salvation.

 

[believeume]

I do not get lately how people do not take the word of God literally as it says, and deny we are perfected the moment we trust Christ, and are born of his spirit.

Heb 10; 14For by one offering he has PERFECTED forever those who are being sanctified.

did the author mean it or not.

I mean, who are the ones who are being sanctified?

1. The world? No. The word we are told is dead
2. The Lost? No, The lost still need to be found
3. The pagan? No
4. The jew lost in Judaism? No
5. The muslim following Muhamad?
6. The hundu, the (insert what ever world religion I have missed)
7. The false prophets of christianity?
8. The false teachers?
9. The one who is in church, but have not yet repented and come to faith of Christ?

I doubt very seriously anyone would say any of these people are in the process of being sanctified (made into the image of Christ)

so then, who is it that the author of hebrews is talking about, that are perfected forever?

Sounds purrfect.