Lost sheep, lost coin, prodigal son

[PeterJens]

It has become obvious some do not accept we have value to God.

We are the lost sheep

Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
Luke 15:4-7

The lost coin is similar and the prodigal son.

God loves us and we are His children gone astray.
This means we have value and are not irredeemable.

In our hearts we know God, we know love, we know hope, we just do not
know the how and the why.

Christ and salvation answers the how and the why.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

To determine the value of something, we can look at what someone is willing to pay for it. When we consider the worth of God's only begotten Son, we can determine the value placed on our souls.


Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

 

[PeterJens]

To determine the value of something, we can look at what someone is willing to pay for it. When we consider the worth of God's only begotten Son, we can determine the value placed on our souls.


Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Amen.

It struck me also how close we are to being Gods chosen people, is the thief on the cross,
saw Christ, gained faith, and was given a place with Him.

What is wrong with man is so subtle, so flawed and yet there is so much that is brilliant.
It is this conundrum that flaws so many.

If man is so bad, how could Moses speak so closely to the Father?
If human flesh is so evil, how could Jesus come as a man?

If we are impossibly lost, how can preaching the gospel save anyone?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To determine the value of something, we can look at what someone is willing to pay for it. When we consider the worth of God's only begotten Son, we can determine the value placed on our souls.


Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

amen, that is how much God loves us.

But some people also have to understand. When we claim we have no value, It means we have nothing to offer God that will cause God to accept us into his family. We are spiritually bankrupt. with nothing to offer god.

It is different to say God loves us and values us, and then to say we have value (anything) to offer god..

there is where the disconnect occured yesterday..

 

[PeterJens]

An interesting point, "we have nothing to offer God"

This sounds like a commercial transaction.

God says this about us.

And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation."
Rev 5:9

These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
Rev 14:4

Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
1 Cor 6:19-20

God does not dwell in defiled vessels, but cleansed Holy beings.
So it therefore becomes important to distinguish between that which defiles and that which is holy.

 

[Grace777x70]

amen, that is how much God loves us.

But some people also have to understand. When we claim we have no value, It means we have nothing to offer God that will cause God to accept us into his family. We are spiritually bankrupt. with nothing to offer god.

It is different to say God loves us and values us, and then to say we have value (anything) to offer god..

there is where the disconnect occured yesterday..

Amen...that is a huge difference.

No amount of human good or our own self-righteousness/holiness attempts will ever make us in right standing with God. This is offensive to the D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness humanistic mindset. Only the blood of Jesus that has cleansed us and the gift of His righteousness alone is what is approved and highly valued with God.

But He loves us so much and has placed a high value on us by sending His Son to bring us to Himself. He is not looking for loup holes to keep us away from Him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, God dwells is cleansed vessels.

But who cleans the vessel. God or us?

 

[PeterJens]

How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!
Heb 9:14

Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
2 Cor 7:1

The Lord through our faith in Jesus and the cross purifies us, and we also have to put effort
in. This is where sanctification and discipleship comes in.

So not only are we of great value, that what makes us human is very close to God,
but that we are involved intimately in our walk, our purification and our relationship
with God.

In the Kingdom of Heaven we choose to forgive, and God chooses to forgive us.
Though our choice is so small, and His so large He has chosen to give us this
ability.

Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
Rev 3:20

Listen to His word, take it to heart, let it dwell with you everyday, and obey
its promptings.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I still do not get what one believes

Does God cleans us to the point we are saved, Or do we help God by cleaning ourselves to be saved?

 

[Grace777x70]

I believe that some things need to be looked at here in order to get understanding of the "context" of 2 Cor. 7:1.

All scripture needs to be viewed through the abundance of very clear scripture on the finished work of Christ on the cross and in the resurrection - and the fact that we are included in His death and resurrection - and that He alone is our righteousness and sanctification and life.

I love John 13:1-10 and how we need our daily walk cleansed by the washing of the water of the word. I watched a talk on this subject and it had an illustration of us being like a gold bar which had mud on it helped me to understand some things.

The gold bar still had it’s real value in it even though it had mud on it. Gold in the Bible speaks of God’s righteousness which of course we know He gave to us – we became the righteousness of God in Christ.

It goes on to show how the washing of the water of God’s word about righteousness and grace cleans off the mud from the gold bar which represents us.

As far as 2 Cor. 7:1 - "context" is very key here. We need to be reading the scriptures that are prior to 2 Cor. 7:1 which is why it starts out with "therefore"...when you see that - always see what it is "there for".

2 Corinthians 7:1 always confused me a bit when it says to cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. How can we cleanse defilement in our spirit when we are righteous because of our new creation in Christ?

I see this verse as us believing who we are in Christ now as the verse before in 2 Corinthians 6:18 says we are sons to our Father. The verses before verse 18 talk about being “separate” from the world – like what partnership does righteousness have with lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness..etc. ( verses 14-16 )

Cleansing the defilement from our flesh is obvious but of the spirit confused me. I think this verse is referring to how we view ourselves when defilement comes as when we viewed the mud on the gold bar. This defilement distorts our view mentally of our true selves ( the word spirit has been used in the N. T. to convey our thinking or mindset ) which we are in Christ because we are His righteousness now.

When we believe ( through the washing of the word of righteousness or hearing the word of Christ ) – we view who we really are in Christ. In this “beholding” of ourselves in Christ as in a mirror – we “become” or manifest outwardly who we already really are in Christ in our inner man and this will be shown in our behavior in this world.

Perfecting holiness in the fear of God means to me = fulfilling or accomplishing ( meaning for perfecting in greek ) our “otherness ” ( which holy really means “other - set apart - different from anything else” ) or separateness outwardly in the fear of God. ( Fear of God to me is realizing the awesomeness of God in His goodness and to be in awe of Him for who He really is ).

 

[PeterJens]

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Col 1:13-14

Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus.
Acts 3:19-20

Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38

We are cleansed through Christs blood sacrificed on the cross.
But we sow defilement or good things by what we do and think about.
We need to take captive our thoughts and our actions into submission to Christ,
empowered by the Spirit walking in love.

Our victory is in our walk of salvation.

Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.
1 John 2:4-6

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so, are you saying we clean ouselves in order to be saved?

That is what it appears you are saying.

 

[PeterJens]

As I have quoted scripture, what does the scripture say about salvation?
What does scripture say about the walk?

It is up to every believer from the word and the Holy Spirit to work out their
salvation in fear and trembling.

Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,
Phil 2:12

This thread is on Gods value he sees in sinners.
It is hard to draw any conclusions on what I have said about salvation, because
I have not addressed it, but share what you will, God bless you, may the Lord reveal
His truth to your heart.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

why do you have to be that way, Why are you afraid to answer direct questions about salvation.

You just destroyed your own thread.. because who can trust you in anything, if you will not be honest about the most important things

 

[Connock]

Yes, God dwells is cleansed vessels.

But who cleans the vessel. God or us?

Excellent question! It goes right to the foundation of the matter. In other words "OK, you are saved. Who saved you?"

Our salvation was purchased by the blood of Christ, gifted to us by the Holy Spirit. "It is the gift of God" (Eph 2:8). If a gift costs (the recipient) something, then it is not a gift. This gift cost us nothing. It cost the giver everything.

Anyone who believes it was by their own good deeds or law-keeping will, from that early moment onward, see everything--even Scripture--through a distorted lens.

Some on CC bash HRM-ers for Lawkeeping, yet forget how few they are compared to the many denominations which also implicitly demand conformance in dress, speech, behavior, etc. It's a huge eye-log.

This removes from Christianity one of its most unique features. All religions except one enforce a moral code of behavior/diet/appearance etc. which a person must not only follow, but also be seen to follow, verified by some human authority. This basic Human instinct works in all cultures, in all times, including ours. Many well-intentioned Christians fall into this mindset, and we see evidence of it all around.

Its not trivial. Not only does it lead to a works-righteousness delusion, but also ultimately to forms of inquisitions and (literal) witch-hunting.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Excellent question! It goes right to the foundation of the matter. In other words "OK, you are saved. Who saved you?"

Our salvation was purchased by the blood of Christ, gifted to us by the Holy Spirit. "It is the gift of God" (Eph 2:8). If a gift costs (the recipient) something, then it is not a gift. This gift cost us nothing. It cost the giver everything.

Anyone who believes it was by their own good deeds or law-keeping will, from that early moment onward, see everything--even Scripture--through a distorted lens.

Some on CC bash HRM-ers for Lawkeeping, yet forget how few they are compared to the many denominations which also implicitly demand conformance in dress, speech, behavior, etc. It's a huge eye-log.

This removes from Christianity one of its most unique features. All religions except one enforce a moral code of behavior/diet/appearance etc. which a person must not only follow, but also be seen to follow, verified by some human authority. This basic Human instinct works in all cultures, in all times, including ours. Many well-intentioned Christians fall into this mindset, and we see evidence of it all around.

Its not trivial. Not only does it lead to a works-righteousness delusion, but also ultimately to forms of inquisitions and (literal) witch-hunting.

It is sad. It amazes me how people teach a system which is really no different than human religion. But since they have the name "christ" attached to it, It is different, or ok..

It is one of Satans greatest victories. and sadly, Many will follow him to hell because they bought into it.

 

[gb9]

It is sad. It amazes me how people teach a system which is really no different than human religion. But since they have the name "christ" attached to it, It is different, or ok..

It is one of Satans greatest victories. and sadly, Many will follow him to hell because they bought into it.

yes, it is a victory for satan when man-made religion makes one constantly question his salvation, relationship with God. you certainly are not going to 100% trust the Lord, the way we are supposed to, when this doubt is always hanging out somewhere close by. Titus 3, whole chapter sums up things so well.......

 

[Grace777x70]

yes, it is a victory for satan when man-made religion makes one constantly question his salvation, relationship with God. you certainly are not going to 100% trust the Lord, the way we are supposed to, when this doubt is always hanging out somewhere close by. Titus 3, whole chapter sums up things so well.......

Amen! The preaching of the gospel of the grace of Christ alone for salvation is always going to be offensive to the D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness humanistic mindset.

 

[Gr8grace]

Some on CC bash HRM-ers for Lawkeeping, yet forget how few they are compared to the many denominations which also implicitly demand conformance in dress, speech, behavior, etc. It's a huge eye-log.

This removes from Christianity one of its most unique features. All religions except one enforce a moral code of behavior/diet/appearance etc. which a person must not only follow, but also be seen to follow, verified by some human authority. This basic Human instinct works in all cultures, in all times, including ours. Many well-intentioned Christians fall into this mindset, and we see evidence of it all around.

Whole post was GREAT. and It is nice to see that others are seeing the major problem.

The morality and lifestyle that the majority of churches teach and PUSH, over and above the SON. Can be FAKED by unbelievers. SO the wolves in Sheeps clothing have an open door. We are not Growing in Grace and knowledge to SEE these wolves.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

It struck me also how close we are to being Gods chosen people, is the thief on the cross,
saw Christ, gained faith, and was given a place with Him.

What is wrong with man is so subtle, so flawed and yet there is so much that is brilliant.
It is this conundrum that flaws so many.

If man is so bad, how could Moses speak so closely to the Father?
If human flesh is so evil, how could Jesus come as a man?

I think we have to balance everything we are told from Scripture.

On the one hand, God tells us Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God and on the other hand, God tells us that he may exalt you in due time all in one verse of Scripture (1 Peter 5:6).

So it is in humbling ourselves under the mighty hand of God that we are then exalted by God.

If we are impossibly lost, how can preaching the gospel save anyone?

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

It pleases God to save those who believe through the foolishness of preaching (1 Cor 1:21).