WHY DID JAMES NOT WRITE ABOUT THE WORK OF CHRIST?

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p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#41
I am speaking of James the Lord's brother. He was never one of the Lords disciple during His earthly tenure. He never believed until after the resurrection and appearance of Christ to him!
So? What's the big deal? NEITHER DID SAUL! You know, the Apostle Paul.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#42
yes you are correct. God saw it fit to include this epistle in the bible the same way He saw it fit to include Abraham's lies, David's adulatory and murder too!

my question is this, should we treat the epistle of James which does not mention anything about the work of salvation, the same as the other epistles?

i asked this question bc this epistle is always used to counteract what other disciples especially Paul says concerning the person and work of Christ!
Yes, Because James was not focused on how to become a child of God. But about being a child of God.. There is nothing I read or see in James which would have caused him to need to put the crucifixion in there.. It can be said, the people he wrote to knew all about the gospel.. Whether they were current believers or not..
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,923
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#43
Our Bible study group just finished James.

We believe James assumes a Christian readership for his epistle. And because he takes for granted that the people he is addressing are ALREADY Christians, he instructs them from being baby Christians to become mature, fruitful Christians.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#44
Our Bible study group just finished James.

We believe James assumes a Christian readership for his epistle. And because he takes for granted that the people he is addressing are ALREADY Christians, he instructs them from being baby Christians to become mature, fruitful Christians.
I also think he addresses some people who may not be saved at all. With the hearers not doers. and a claimed faith, which has no works. (placing them equal with demons)

Which is good. we should never assume everyone in our churches are saved.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,617
3,530
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#45
Our Bible study group just finished James.

We believe James assumes a Christian readership for his epistle. And because he takes for granted that the people he is addressing are ALREADY Christians, he instructs them from being baby Christians to become mature, fruitful Christians.
So why the address, "to the twelve tribes scattered abroad"? The term twelve tribes is never in Scripture representative of the saved group of people out of the nation of Israel. In Scripture, twelve tribes is always a reference to the entire nation of Israel, all that would be part of the twelve tribes. To make it Jewish Christians would contradict every other usage in Scripture.
 
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heavenly_bound

Guest
#46
So? What's the big deal? NEITHER DID SAUL! You know, the Apostle Paul.
That is very correct but did you know that James opposed Peter and Paul?

James conveyed a council to question why Peter had to go into Cornelius's house with the gospel! he did not only questioned Peter but Paul as well!! Were it not for peter's testimony, the burden of circumcision would have been placed on the gentile churches then!

According to James one is not a true Christian unless they are circumcised and obey the law of Moses!
In fact history has it that James hid his conversion and still worshiped at the temple for many many yrs! And it was only when some Jewish Christians were brought to him( James) at the temple to pass judgement, that he declared that he himself was a christian!

why am bring this out is for us to see that James letter is law based! And we know that by the law, non is justified!
I am by no means saying that the book of James is not important! I am saying that when we study the book of James we should rightly divide it; to get what belongs to the new creation and set aside what belongs to the law!!
 
H

heavenly_bound

Guest
#47
James and Paul both made valuable contributions. We'd be in bad shape if we lost one or the other. Jesus didn't say he came to abolish the law. He said he came to fulfill it (Matt 5:17).

There are those laws, or ordinances, or whatever you want to call them, that just apply to Jews. When will the jubilees occur? When do you sacrifice a ram? But the commandments have to be obeyed by everyone. That is the value of James: teaching us that we must obey the commandments. John does the same thing.
Its a good thing that you brought this up. Now let use the example of the prophecy concerning the coming of Christ through Mary.

If you happen to find a woman this day and age claiming to be the one through whom the messiah will d come, what would you call her? Heretic right? why? because that prophecy had been FULFILLED!!

So when Christ fulfilled the law it was fulfilled indeed; never to be taken into consideration again!!!!!!!!
 

mcubed

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
1,449
218
63
#48
yes you are correct. God saw it fit to include this epistle in the bible the same way He saw it fit to include Abraham's lies, David's adulatory and murder too!

my question is this, should we treat the epistle of James which does not mention anything about the work of salvation, the same as the other epistles?

i asked this question bc this epistle is always used to counteract what other disciples especially Paul says concerning the person and work of Christ!


This is a better question that I realized at first. Actually great question, my heart is literally racing!!!! Now I have to check which council it was for sure (but I do not feel like it) but I believe if memory serves me correct it is the same as the Council of Nicaea canonizing The Book of Ester. Ester does not mention G-d’s name at all but reading it there is no denying it belongs in the canyon. Same with James. The “New” Testament is not a works of what Y-shua did it is the completion of the “Old” Testament. It takes all 66 Books, with that beautiful scarlet of thread of Y-sha’s blood that runs all thru them that makes the complete Work of the Master. If it sounds “Old” Testament, it’s because Y-shua is Old Testament too.
 
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Eternallife

Guest
#49
Why is it that Apostle James does not mention anything about the the work (Crucifixion, death, burial, quickening, raising, ascension and session) of Christ in his epistle?

How come that An apostle who did not even believe in Christ during His earthly ministry was appointed to direct the church at its infancy?

Could it be that this situation has contributed greatly to the struggle the church has been having between grace and law till this day?
correct me if what i say is wrong pls

keep reading it it doesn't disagree with other writers of the NT. The works James talks about is the outcome of his genuine faith.
 
E

Eternallife

Guest
#50
Being a doer of the word and not a hearer only.
 
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Eternallife

Guest
#52
Not double minded and thus producing fruits.
One more to try to explain it. It would be like someone ignoring that we are to think of things above and the detailed instruction about how money is to be viewed and then trying to become as rich as we can anyways and entertaining ourselves in sinful entertainment and just assuming we are ok with God because we heard some preacher said something about faith along time ago.
 
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Eternallife

Guest
#53
One more to try to explain it. It would be like someone ignoring that we are to think of things above and the detailed instruction about how money is to be viewed and then trying to become as rich as we can anyways and entertaining ourselves in sinful entertainment and just assuming we are ok with God because we heard some preacher said something about faith along time ago.
a long * typo in previous message
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
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#54
like Abraham lies, David's adulatory and murder etc right? So these too where given by inspiration of God?

What does it really mean by "all scripture is given by inspiration of God"

if we interpret ever scripture literally, we will end up with the notion that God is in support of Abraham's lies , David's murders and adulatory etc!

Now James just preach the gospel in his own way as you put it! so what was his message? we know that the gospel is the message of the cross!!

so can someone explain to me how is it possible to think that James preached the gospel without any mention of the gospel(good new of the cross) itself!!

God expect us to rightly divide the worth of Truth bc in the bible, there are thinks that differ; things that do not co mingle; things that are mutually exclusive!!
I know what you are trying to say but the problem is that people don't interpret scripture they seem to think we should take everything literally and create highly improbable explanations of why one passage contradicts another. They confuse spiritual truth with facts and get into all sorts of debates to defend their positions. The writers of the new testament
were not consciously writing Scripture. They didn't think that their letters would one day become ''The New Testament''
Only Peters epistle seems to recognize some of Pauls writing as Scripture. They all wrote in order to explain and correct members of the various churches as and when they thought it necessary. James is one example of this.
 
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p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,187
6,531
113
#55
That is very correct but did you know that James opposed Peter and Paul?

James conveyed a council to question why Peter had to go into Cornelius's house with the gospel! he did not only questioned Peter but Paul as well!! Were it not for peter's testimony, the burden of circumcision would have been placed on the gentile churches then!

According to James one is not a true Christian unless they are circumcised and obey the law of Moses!
In fact history has it that James hid his conversion and still worshiped at the temple for many many yrs! And it was only when some Jewish Christians were brought to him( James) at the temple to pass judgement, that he declared that he himself was a christian!

why am bring this out is for us to see that James letter is law based! And we know that by the law, non is justified!
I am by no means saying that the book of James is not important! I am saying that when we study the book of James we should rightly divide it; to get what belongs to the new creation and set aside what belongs to the law!!
You seem to struggle with understanding of Scripture. Not diggin at you, just saying. IF you are referring to the events that took place as recorded in Acts, Chapter 15, then you are not understanding it correctly.

Please show the Scriptures where James opposed Peter and Paul.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#56
One more to try to explain it. It would be like someone ignoring that we are to think of things above and the detailed instruction about how money is to be viewed and then trying to become as rich as we can anyways and entertaining ourselves in sinful entertainment and just assuming we are ok with God because we heard some preacher said something about faith along time ago.
it would be just as dangerous to go on in life to think you are saved because you are good. And because you are hearers and doers in your mind, You have no danger of losing salvation, But if you do not maintain that lifestyle and fall back into sin, Your salvation could be in jeopardy.

Because if you believe this, You faith is in your works, not in Christ,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#57
That is very correct but did you know that James opposed Peter and Paul?

James conveyed a council to question why Peter had to go into Cornelius's house with the gospel! he did not only questioned Peter but Paul as well!! Were it not for peter's testimony, the burden of circumcision would have been placed on the gentile churches then!

According to James one is not a true Christian unless they are circumcised and obey the law of Moses!
In fact history has it that James hid his conversion and still worshiped at the temple for many many yrs! And it was only when some Jewish Christians were brought to him( James) at the temple to pass judgement, that he declared that he himself was a christian!

why am bring this out is for us to see that James letter is law based! And we know that by the law, non is justified!
I am by no means saying that the book of James is not important! I am saying that when we study the book of James we should rightly divide it; to get what belongs to the new creation and set aside what belongs to the law!!
Mind if I ask where you got this. James did not support circumcision, and say your not saved if you are not.. James did not appose Paul in his letter. He agreed with paul. His letter was to a group of people who had different issues that the letters paul wrote (easy believing vs legalism) and thus his letter has to be taken in that context.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,617
3,530
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#58
You seem to struggle with understanding of Scripture. Not diggin at you, just saying. IF you are referring to the events that took place as recorded in Acts, Chapter 15, then you are not understanding it correctly.

Please show the Scriptures where James opposed Peter and Paul.
For one, James writes to the twelve tribes scattered abroad. Paul writes to the church, the body of Christ.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
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#59
For one, James writes to the twelve tribes scattered abroad. Paul writes to the church, the body of Christ.
I always viewed that as a spiritual saying not literal.

Romans 2:28-29
[FONT=&quot]28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Romans 9:6-8
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Ephesians 2:12-13
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.[/FONT]
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,617
3,530
113
#60
I always viewed that as a spiritual saying not literal.

Romans 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Romans 9:6-8

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Ephesians 2:12-13

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Then you would have to take the rest of the book of James as spiritual teaching and cannot be taken literal. I take James literal, and he's writing to the twelve tribes scattered abroad. There's a reason why the book of James falls after Paul's writings to the body of Christ. The twelve tribes will be scattered abroad during the tribulation(after the Church Age) and will need help persevering through this time of Jacob's trouble. James is definitely not writing to saved people only for he tells them in James 1 to receive the word of God which will save their souls.