with Christ in the heavenly realms Eph 2:6

[PeterJens]

And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6

Paul is talking about being lost to the spirit of this world, and then being taken and place with
Christ in the heavenlies.

Now the problem is we physically, spiritual, consciously are here on earth. We do not have a
separate identity with Christ in heaven but this verse could imply this.

Now Jesus was literally raised from the dead and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

Now if Paul is using a metaphor, because we are in Christ, we also are sitting with Christ.
So we are no longer subject to the spiritual forces of this world, but dwell with Christ in
heaven in our spirits, though our spirits are here on earth.

Paul extends the idea of being present somewhere while being somewhere else when talking to
corinth.

"So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present"
1 cor 5:4

Now Paul could be emphasising his teaching and focus of the message he wants the corinthians to
follow, ie they have understood Pauls intention and direction and authority.

I have a problem with the more mystical out of body spirit seeing into the room idea, but you could
read this in as a version. This is mainly because this would be 100% unique, and does not make sense
with the rest of scripture etc.

So equally Paul is emphasising our spiritual authority with Christ in the spiritual dimensions, but not a
spirit identity is now with Christ in the heavenly with a link to our spirit identity on earth, but again
you could suggest this theory from the words, but this would be 100% unique.
But the more mystical among us would certainly love this idea and some probably teach it.

What I find interesting is seeing what the different interpretations people put on these verses.

 

[bikerchaz]

I agree with you, with and through the Spirit it is common sense. We can be transported as was Philip with the Ethiopian, because nothing is impossible for God, and being with someone "in Spirit" is obvious. Only an earthly mind would conceive of anything more.

 

[jb]

with Christ in the heavenly realms Eph 2:6

The heavenly places in Christ are a reference to:

1Kings 17v1: "And Elijah the Tishbite, who was of the inhabitants of Gilead, said unto Ahab, As the Lord God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, but according to my word."

Elijah who is to come and restore all things:

Rev 11v4 (V3-6): "These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth." (with Mal 4v5,6, Matt 17v11)

Our Lord, Who during His earthly ministry, like Elijah of old, stood before the Throne of God in spirit (although His feet were upon earth, His mind was in heaven in spirit before the Throne of God).

John 3v13: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." with John 17v24

It is the desire of the Trinity to take the believer into heavenly places (in Christ). Heb 4v12, 12v22 (But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem...)

The whole book of Hebrews is dealing with the subject of the believer sitting in the heavenlies in Christ as a priest of the Melchizedek priesthood, with Christ as our Great High Priest after the order of Melchizedek. 1Peter 2v4-10

Col 3v1-3: "If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God."

Sitting in the heavenlies in Christ should be the experience of the Christian!

 

[Grace777x70]

True Christians are in fact in Christ now and Christ is in us and we are joined as one spirit. There are over 100 scriptures that speak of this fact.

Our humanistic natural mind cannot not understand spiritual truths and thus we try to use our natural reasoning to discount the truths of being in Christ.

This is how religious teachings and man-made traditions water down the truths of the true life of Christ that is in us. This also creates a works-based righteousness mindset.

We are totally reliant on the Holy Spirit to reveal the truths of Christ being in us and us being in Him as Mary was reliant on the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus in her womb.

 

[valiant]

And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6

Paul is talking about being lost to the spirit of this world, and then being taken and place with
Christ in the heavenlies.

Now the problem is we physically, spiritual, consciously are here on earth. We do not have a
separate identity with Christ in heaven but this verse could imply this.

Now Jesus was literally raised from the dead and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

Now if Paul is using a metaphor, because we are in Christ, we also are sitting with Christ.
So we are no longer subject to the spiritual forces of this world, but dwell with Christ in
heaven in our spirits, though our spirits are here on earth.

Paul extends the idea of being present somewhere while being somewhere else when talking to
corinth.

"So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present"
1 cor 5:4

Now Paul could be emphasising his teaching and focus of the message he wants the corinthians to
follow, ie they have understood Pauls intention and direction and authority.

I have a problem with the more mystical out of body spirit seeing into the room idea, but you could
read this in as a version. This is mainly because this would be 100% unique, and does not make sense
with the rest of scripture etc.

So equally Paul is emphasising our spiritual authority with Christ in the spiritual dimensions, but not a
spirit identity is now with Christ in the heavenly with a link to our spirit identity on earth, but again
you could suggest this theory from the words, but this would be 100% unique.
But the more mystical among us would certainly love this idea and some probably teach it.

What I find interesting is seeing what the different interpretations people put on these verses.

To be in the heavenlies is to be in the spiritual realm with Christ, with mind set on things above.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

In Ephesians 2:6 a figure of speech [heterosis (of tenses)] is used. Figures of speech are used to draw our attention.


E.W. Bullinger explains heterosis (of tenses):

This is put when the speaker views the action as being as good as done. This is very common in the Divine prophetic utterances: where, though the sense is literally future, it is regarded and spoken of as though it were already accomplished in the Divine purpose and determination: the figure is to show the absolute certainty of the things spoken of.

Heterosis: or Exchange of Accidence - Bullinger's Figures of Speech Used in the Bible - - StudyLight.org

 

[PeterJens]

True Christians are in fact in Christ now and Christ is in us and we are joined as one spirit. There are over 100 scriptures that speak of this fact.

Our humanistic natural mind cannot not understand spiritual truths and thus we try to use our natural reasoning to discount the truths of being in Christ.

This is how religious teachings and man-made traditions water down the truths of the true life of Christ that is in us. This also creates a works-based righteousness mindset.

We are totally reliant on the Holy Spirit to reveal the truths of Christ being in us and us being in Him as Mary was reliant on the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus in her womb.

The people of Kingdom walk in holiness, purity, and righteousness.
They do not ignore sin within, or that which contaminates.

So I agree we are in the heavenlies with Christ, a Holy people not walking in lawlessness
and hypocracy.

But so much has been changed and distorted, we are not talking about the same things,
so it is pointless to get into such disputes, because these are too very different spiritual
outlooks.

If you do not see to know God is to desire to walk after righteousness like ones hearts
desire you do not know Christ. But I know from your testimonies you strove for so long
as pure legalists and totally failed because love was not in your hearts, you have achieved
no better by saying walking righteously is impossible, that is just making your world and failure
Jesus's world.

But then you have no choice or to give up any faith you have.
I do not know how you got into this mess, but I know it is pure delusion.
A murderer is still a murderer is he still murders. Making everyone a murderer and
homical maniacs does not make anything better, because it still has not resolved the issue
of what sin is and why are you so addicted to do nothing about it.

 

[Chester]

As our first birth was physical and we were "in Adam", so our second birth is spiritual and we are now "in Christ". We died with him, were resurrected with him and have been seated down with him in the heavens! Spiritual experience, yes! But a very literal experience - what I mean is that the second birth is just as real (even more real!) than our first physical birth.

 

[eph610]

And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6

Paul is talking about being lost to the spirit of this world, and then being taken and place with
Christ in the heavenlies.

Now the problem is we physically, spiritual, consciously are here on earth. We do not have a
separate identity with Christ in heaven but this verse could imply this.

Now Jesus was literally raised from the dead and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

Now if Paul is using a metaphor, because we are in Christ, we also are sitting with Christ.
So we are no longer subject to the spiritual forces of this world, but dwell with Christ in
heaven in our spirits, though our spirits are here on earth.

Paul extends the idea of being present somewhere while being somewhere else when talking to
corinth.

"So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present"
1 cor 5:4

Now Paul could be emphasising his teaching and focus of the message he wants the corinthians to
follow, ie they have understood Pauls intention and direction and authority.

I have a problem with the more mystical out of body spirit seeing into the room idea, but you could
read this in as a version. This is mainly because this would be 100% unique, and does not make sense
with the rest of scripture etc.

So equally Paul is emphasising our spiritual authority with Christ in the spiritual dimensions, but not a
spirit identity is now with Christ in the heavenly with a link to our spirit identity on earth, but again
you could suggest this theory from the words, but this would be 100% unique.
But the more mystical among us would certainly love this idea and some probably teach it.

What I find interesting is seeing what the different interpretations people put on these verses.

Disregard the truth of the Word on your own, but please do not drag others down with you....

 

[Grace777x70]

As our first birth was physical and we were "in Adam", so our second birth is spiritual and we are now "in Christ". We died with him, were resurrected with him and have been seated down with him in the heavens! Spiritual experience, yes! But a very literal experience - what I mean is that the second birth is just as real (even more real!) than our first physical birth.

That sounds so "gnostic" and "mystical"....even a bit of dualism in there too.

( just having some "fun"...lol )

 

[PeterJens]

Disregard the truth of the Word on your own, but please do not drag others down with you....

Here is a problem. You are connecting understanding with morality.
Rightly dividing the word is a difficult issue when it can be used to imply beliefs
that disagree with the whole tenant and intention of scripture.

The reason for discussion is to see all the views and arguments and then search
our hearts to see where our view lies.

In all honesty, some of the ideas make no difference to us, one way or the other,
they are perception ideas.

I have a relationship with my wife, and it might be heavenly or practical, but it is
what it is. How I describe it does not change what it is.

So wherever our Lord is, so are we because we are His followers and redeemed by
His blood. So I trust in Him and His great authority and victory.

But it also raises the question, when someone suggested our spirits or entity were
with Christ is another physical location. I suppose this appeals to the charismatic
out of body mindset, we are in the heavenlies so we could not be deceived and talking
and living heresy. Yep you could be and it all be exaguration and hype.

 

[FlSnookman7]

Here is a problem. You are connecting understanding with morality.
Rightly dividing the word is a difficult issue when it can be used to imply beliefs
that disagree with the whole tenant and intention of scripture.

The reason for discussion is to see all the views and arguments and then search
our hearts to see where our view lies.

In all honesty, some of the ideas make no difference to us, one way or the other,
they are perception ideas.

I have a relationship with my wife, and it might be heavenly or practical, but it is
what it is. How I describe it does not change what it is.

So wherever our Lord is, so are we because we are His followers and redeemed by
His blood. So I trust in Him and His great authority and victory.

But it also raises the question, when someone suggested our spirits or entity were
with Christ is another physical location. I suppose this appeals to the charismatic
out of body mindset, we are in the heavenlies so we could not be deceived and talking
and living heresy. Yep you could be and it all be exaguration and hype.

As usual you have offered incorrect information about what another has said. I said in a different post that we are in Heaven with Jesus right now. Heaven is not as you put it a "physical" place rather it is a spiritual place. That is God's Word and it is neither hype nor exaggeration. As both your posts and your tactic of accusing others who call you out seem to show you are probably unable to discern the spiritual. That is both sad yet understandable as God's Word speaks on it as well.

 

[PeterJens]

As usual you have offered incorrect information about what another has said. I said in a different post that we are in Heaven with Jesus right now. Heaven is not as you put it a "physical" place rather it is a spiritual place. That is God's Word and it is neither hype nor exaggeration. As both your posts and your tactic of accusing others who call you out seem to show you are probably unable to discern the spiritual. That is both sad yet understandable as God's Word speaks on it as well.

Sorry, God is in a physical place, He has a physical presence and so does Jesus.
A place with no dimensions does not exist in our understanding.

So we can talk about spiritual authority etc. as it relates to us but it is not a location.
I was trying to establish whether spiritual realms was a physical place or merely a
way of looking at reality in term of authority and influence.

And I am not using tactics like you suggest I am making propositions.

And with the amount of spiritual clap trap that goes on regarding Christ,
I can discern that 99% of it is clap trap.

And most of the HG groups are full of it.

 

[heavenly_bound]

And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:6

Paul is talking about being lost to the spirit of this world, and then being taken and place with
Christ in the heavenlies.

Now the problem is we physically, spiritual, consciously are here on earth. We do not have a
separate identity with Christ in heaven but this verse could imply this.

Now Jesus was literally raised from the dead and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

Now if Paul is using a metaphor, because we are in Christ, we also are sitting with Christ.
So we are no longer subject to the spiritual forces of this world, but dwell with Christ in
heaven in our spirits, though our spirits are here on earth.

Paul extends the idea of being present somewhere while being somewhere else when talking to
corinth.

"So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present"
1 cor 5:4

Now Paul could be emphasising his teaching and focus of the message he wants the corinthians to
follow, ie they have understood Pauls intention and direction and authority.

I have a problem with the more mystical out of body spirit seeing into the room idea, but you could
read this in as a version. This is mainly because this would be 100% unique, and does not make sense
with the rest of scripture etc.

So equally Paul is emphasising our spiritual authority with Christ in the spiritual dimensions, but not a
spirit identity is now with Christ in the heavenly with a link to our spirit identity on earth, but again
you could suggest this theory from the words, but this would be 100% unique.
But the more mystical among us would certainly love this idea and some probably teach it.

What I find interesting is seeing what the different interpretations people put on these verses.

May be you are not aware of the fact that we live simultaneously in both worlds (heaven and earth)!

There is only one church and this one church is at the same time Divine (Ecclesia invisibilis) and human(Ecclesia visibilis). The Church is the very body of Christ who is at the same time true God and true man.

Therefore we( the church) are both mystical (invisible) and empirical (visible); meaning we are both Divine and Human at the same time !

Without this understanding one cannot interpret all of Paul's epistles accurately.

 

[heavenly_bound]

As our first birth was physical and we were "in Adam", so our second birth is spiritual and we are now "in Christ". We died with him, were resurrected with him and have been seated down with him in the heavens! Spiritual experience, yes! But a very literal experience - what I mean is that the second birth is just as real (even more real!) than our first physical birth.

great! well expounded Son of God!!
There is nothing we can do about the truth,; we can only be for the truth!!!

 

[PeterJens]

The heavenlies

I watched Todd Bentley and the whole NAR leaders anoint him and they are all into
the heavenlies, the binding of witches and spirits, on everest.

The prophetic ministries, talking dead preachers using prophets to send messages.

There have been prophecies about massive church revival, great works of God,
emotional and spiritual success, but this is just exploiting the real spiritual need
and destroying it.

The main intercession we need today is repentance over degredation, self indulgence,
sexual immorality, and a lack of love. People are so jaded they die alone, without
friends or anyone who knows them, going into judgement with no hope.

And it is just getting worse, look at the films and morality people now aspire to.

So most have no clue what the heavenlies are or what the gospel actually is.
It is mainly a singalong with a nice encouraging sermon saying everything is
ok. Everything is not ok, and more and more people are taking drug highs to
take the edge off the inevitable one way street to hell.

 

[bikerchaz]

Sorry, God is in a physical place, He has a physical presence and so does Jesus.
A place with no dimensions does not exist in our understanding.

So we can talk about spiritual authority etc. as it relates to us but it is not a location.
I was trying to establish whether spiritual realms was a physical place or merely a
way of looking at reality in term of authority and influence.

And I am not using tactics like you suggest I am making propositions.

And with the amount of spiritual clap trap that goes on regarding Christ,
I can discern that 99% of it is clap trap.

And most of the HG groups are full of it.

Woah! calm down Bro, I can see from the time you posted this that it was 2am, your response reminds me of "The reproaches of those who reproach you fall on me, because the zeal for your house consumes me". Of course we live in a real world, a physical touchable five senses world, and we have living within us the Spirit of God, a presence of the triune Godhead, and through Him we have connection to the spiritual world. Does not scripture say ;

And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit

these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

Therefore we are known in the spiritual realm and we have knowledge from the same through the Spirit that dwells within us. For those who have been baptised into Christ have died with Him under the waters which represent a literal physical death and we have also been raised with Him, being raised from the waters of this same baptism into "newness of life", we now do sit with Him in the heavenly realms. The same Spirit of God who is in all those who are chosen and have accepted the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus for the remission of their sins, is part of God. He is in us and knows our mind and hearts, He knows Gods mind and His heart, He knows Jesus the same way and knows that Jesus and Father of of one mind. He connects us together to truly know Him in the most intimate ways, just as He knows us.

This is all mind blowing stuff and without Jesus we can't comprehend it. I am starting to realise it is something I keep coming round to but it is all based on relationship, in relationship, with Jesus. There is no other way to understand. The Spirit is relationship with jesus, He is the comforter, and He comforts us and brings Jesus within us. We sit down and eat with Jesus and God, we feast with them every time we open the word of God.

PS what is a "HG" group

 

[bikerchaz]

The heavenlies

I watched Todd Bentley and the whole NAR leaders anoint him and they are all into
the heavenlies, the binding of witches and spirits, on everest.

The prophetic ministries, talking dead preachers using prophets to send messages.

There have been prophecies about massive church revival, great works of God,
emotional and spiritual success, but this is just exploiting the real spiritual need
and destroying it.

The main intercession we need today is repentance over degredation, self indulgence,
sexual immorality, and a lack of love. People are so jaded they die alone, without
friends or anyone who knows them, going into judgement with no hope.

And it is just getting worse, look at the films and morality people now aspire to.

So most have no clue what the heavenlies are or what the gospel actually is.
It is mainly a singalong with a nice encouraging sermon saying everything is
ok. Everything is not ok, and more and more people are taking drug highs to
take the edge off the inevitable one way street to hell.

Spot on Bro'