The Promises through the righteousness of faith!

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ladylynn

Guest
#21
Jesus never ever promised any material prosperity for His followers in this world... Indeed He told us we would be Hated and persecuted for His name sake.. He said::

John 16:KJV
33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Romans 8: KJV
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.


Also Ladylynn I quoted the part of your OP that i was responding to.. I was not responding to the entire post..



What you are saying is true on only the level it is true on as you stay there. There is another place to go and to be. I read and understand Psalm 23 much different than I used to. Many believers look at Psalm 23 from the perspective of when people are dead.

OH dear that is amazing how God meant us to see it as the Lord Jesus Who is our Good Shepherd while HERE on earth as well as forever. And man has taken that VERY Psalm and used it for death. Just like the enemy to make what God meant for life to be turned into death.

Jesus came to give us life and that more abundantly. satan is the father of lies who seeks to kill steal and destroy. he will always distort the Word of God. We have to be students of the Bible and know what it says in order to counter the devils attacks and fiery darts.


A Psalm of David.

[SUP]1 [/SUP]The Lord is my Shepherd [to feed, guide, and shield me], I shall not lack.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]He makes me lie down in [fresh, tender] green pastures; He leads me beside the still and restful waters.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]He refreshes and restores my life (my self); He leads me in the paths of righteousness [uprightness and right standing with Him—not for my earning it, but] for His name’s sake.
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]Yes, though I walk through the [deep, sunless] valley of the shadow of death, I will fear or dread no evil, for You are with me;
Your rod [to protect] and Your staff [to guide], they comfort me.
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with [SUP][a][/SUP]oil; my [brimming] cup runs over.
[SUP]
6 [/SUP]Surely or only goodness, mercy, and unfailing love shall follow me all the days of my life, and through the length of my days the house of the Lord [and His presence] shall be my dwelling place.


Please consider what these verses say. He is our Shepherd Who leads and guides us. We shall not want or lack for anything. Because of Him and His leading and because of His great Love. Not for our earning it but because of His Love.

The valley of the sunless dark shadow of death with accompanying fear and dread; where we need His rod for protection and His staff to guide us is for NOW. It's before we arrive in heaven where we will no longer be fighting the good fight of faith.



He prepares a table for us in the presence of our enemies. We have no more enemies in heaven. We have no more trials or tribulations in heaven. We have these promises of His guidance and protection for our use NOW but so many believers don't know it and even refuse to take it.

They think being poor needy and beggarly is somehow a spiritual thing. Again, the enemy comes and distorts being cared for by our Father as being poor and beggarly. Even we provide for our children better than that.


I see tons of promises. We lack for nothing because of Him. We are hated in the world for sure and yes, we have tribulations but are continually admonished to look to Jesus Who has already overcome the world. We are in Him.

We are more than conquerors. Jesus did the conquering so we didn't even have to fight for it so we are even more than conquerors. We can (by faith) rest in the work Jesus has done on our behalf. When we allow Jesus to be our righteousness and our standing and our conqueror, and our Good Shepherd, and our Advocate we no longer worry but we rest the sweetest kind of rest. No ulcers no fears that debilitate us. satan's lies will not have power over us because we will believe the truth and the truth will set us free.


 
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#23
Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
 
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eph610

Guest
#24
One verse always makes a pet doctrine, but in context, Romans 4.13-25 is saying that because of Father Abraham's faith, that he would he would be heir of the world and because of that faith you were grafted into the new covenant...

It might be wise for some of you to read the verses above and below Rom 4.13 and then re-visit the devotion to see if it line sup with what is being stated...

*Hint*--it wont, it's talking about how by faith of one man, forged the way to let gentiles be grafted into the real prosperity message: That is your personal salvation

For ANYONE to take Rom 4.13 and apply to material blessings, to the free gift of salvation means they have never studied out above and beneath and are just pushing propaganda, to continue making you fell good about all the benefits of your salvation....



Meanwhile people are losing their heads and lives for standing up for the testimony of Jesus Christ, but here in the USA we Count your blessings, name them one by one,....count your blessings see what the Lord has done....Count your blessings....oh yippee I am destined to reign and the world is my heir of any whimsical blessings I need fulfilled...

Wake up people!

Romans 4 is not about your comfy blessing, it is telling you how you even got to partake in the New Covenant...but go right ahead and let someone mess that up for you....

Yes, This got me upset....
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
#25
I can't speak for anyone but me Eph610 and neither can you or anyone else. I read what you posted and you are entitled to your opinion and to live your life as you are led. My path is not like yours right now.
I have seen the goodness of God in the land of the living
;) He is awesome and He takes care of me.

I'm a sheep of His pasture. I confess how good He is and how worthy He is. He allows me to know Him and His love is felt by the way he ministers to me through His Holy Spirit. No one can compete with that.
:D


I'm not called to look at other people or my own experiences. I'm called to see Jesus and He makes my paths straight because He says to acknowledge Him. And it is YIPEE and ALLELUIA and THANK YOU JESUS!! What you call whimsical I call life in Christ. I'm blessed and loved by my Father. Jesus has taken all my sins away and I'm redeemed through and through. I have the promises every day. I am comfy and cozy and blessed today!! My Father takes care of me better than I can take care of myself. I have every reason to be SOOOOO joyful and happy.

I don't know why this upsets you. I believe in the promises and am confessing it here on this thread on CC. I have too. It's like if I don't the rocks will cry out LOL. The mountains and the hills will break forth with joy you shall go out with joy and be lead forth with peace and clap and clap your hands!!!!

I also just heard some a terrific message I want to share here too. I hope you will listen to it and be blessed too Eph610.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgS8vjLxkZo


 
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eph610

Guest
#26
I can't speak for anyone but me Eph610 and neither can you or anyone else. I read what you posted and you are entitled to your opinion and to live your life as you are led. My path is not like yours right now.
I have seen the goodness of God in the land of the living
;) He is awesome and He takes care of me.

I'm a sheep of His pasture. I confess how good He is and how worthy He is. He allows me to know Him and His love is felt by the way he ministers to me through His Holy Spirit. No one can compete with that.
:D


I'm not called to look at other people or my own experiences. I'm called to see Jesus and He makes my paths straight because He says to acknowledge Him. And it is YIPEE and ALLELUIA and THANK YOU JESUS!! What you call whimsical I call life in Christ. I'm blessed and loved by my Father. Jesus has taken all my sins away and I'm redeemed through and through. I have the promises every day. I am comfy and cozy and blessed today!! My Father takes care of me better than I can take care of myself. I have every reason to be SOOOOO joyful and happy.

I don't know why this upsets you. I believe in the promises and am confessing it here on this thread on CC. I have too. It's like if I don't the rocks will cry out LOL. The mountains and the hills will break forth with joy you shall go out with joy and be lead forth with peace and clap and clap your hands!!!!

I also just heard some a terrific message I want to share here too. I hope you will listen to it and be blessed too Eph610.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgS8vjLxkZo


Lynn, my beef is not with you at all...If you really read all of EPh 4 you cannot come up with the conclusion JP did regarding Romans 4.13...My beef is also not with JP...in this he missed it...we all do...

I do not disagree one bit with you rebuttal, but I think balance is needed...we are growing up a generation of self professed Christians that have no idea of sacrifice or selfless devotion, because all they hear about is how blessed I am....

At the end of the day it depends on what motivates your walk...if it is constant blessings and material needs being met, and being cozy, comfy in the goodness that is God and that is all your motivation.....you likely need to check your walk...

Everything you say you received I also receive, but that is not nor my any kind of motivation for my walk....it was not Jesus's either...
 
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ladylynn

Guest
#27
Lynn, my beef is not with you at all...If you really read all of EPh 4 you cannot come up with the conclusion JP did regarding Romans 4.13...My beef is also not with JP...in this he missed it...we all do...

I do not disagree one bit with you rebuttal, but I think balance is needed...we are growing up a generation of self professed Christians that have no idea of sacrifice or selfless devotion, because all they hear about is how blessed I am....

At the end of the day it depends on what motivates your walk...if it is constant blessings and material needs being met, and being cozy, comfy in the goodness that is God and that is all your motivation.....you likely need to check your walk...

Everything you say you received I also receive, but that is not nor my any kind of motivation for my walk....it was not Jesus's either...


Do you know there are a ZILLION TRILLION reasons NOT to believe in the goodness and protection and healing hand of God in our lives? But there is only ONE reason TO believe and He is Jesus. What He says and what He has done on our behalf is what matters.

The motivation for me is the love and grace of God in Christ. We love Him because He first loved us. I shared it on another thread here as well. The Holy Spirit gives us so much if we just take it with a willing hand. JOY is another motivation. When I'm joyful in Him it's just like the Bible says. It gives strength and power to do what needs doing by faith.

How can I balance the JOY?? We are not meant to balance the Holy Spirit in our lives. I will leave that to Him.
;) I want to flow with Him., not quench Him. When we are flowing with Him that is when we will sacrifice and be selfless and have selfless devotion and in that we ARE BLESSED and HE is PRAISED and HONORED. The work we do is not work at all when we let Him work through us. It is a labor of love and JOY in the Holy Ghost.

It becomes our joy and our reasonable service that we love to do. The fruits of the Spirit are not difficult. Jesus said His yoke is EASY and His burden is LIGHT. You see Brother Eph610, there is another way to approach this Christian walk and His way is so much better than ours.
 
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eph610

Guest
#28
Do you know there are a ZILLION TRILLION reasons NOT to believe in the goodness and protection and healing hand of God in our lives? But there is only ONE reason TO believe and He is Jesus. What He says and what He has done on our behalf is what matters.

The motivation for me is the love and grace of God in Christ. We love Him because He first loved us. I shared it on another thread here as well. The Holy Spirit gives us so much if we just take it with a willing hand. JOY is another motivation. When I'm joyful in Him it's just like the Bible says. It gives strength and power to do what needs doing by faith.

How can I balance the JOY?? We are not meant to balance the Holy Spirit in our lives. I will leave that to Him.
;) I want to flow with Him., not quench Him. When we are flowing with Him that is when we will sacrifice and be selfless and have selfless devotion and in that we ARE BLESSED and HE is PRAISED and HONORED. The work we do is not work at all when we let Him work through us. It is a labor of love and JOY in the Holy Ghost.

It becomes our joy and our reasonable service that we love to do. The fruits of the Spirit are not difficult. Jesus said His yoke is EASY and His burden is LIGHT. You see Brother Eph610, there is another way to approach this Christian walk and His way is so much better than ours.


Do you ever give out what you receive from the Holy Ghost or is it always about you and what you get and that is all that matters?

Your last replies imply its all about what Lynn gets from God and I am entitled to it...

Are you are a ocean between 2 rivers or a dead sea?
 
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ladylynn

Guest
#29
Do you ever give out what you receive from the Holy Ghost or is it always about you and what you get and that is all that matters?

Your last replies imply its all about what Lynn gets from God and I am entitled to it...

Are you are a ocean between 2 rivers or a dead sea?

Wow. Are you that determined to be living a hard and difficult Christian life? Do you insist on making it difficult and joyless? When the Lord wants you to find strength in His grace? How can we be empty when we have the HolySpirit filling us?

We have those rivers of living water when we are on the receiving end. When we are thirsty we go to Jesus. We are told to be filled because we NEED to be filled. We cannot fill ourselves. To try will make you frustrated. As many Christians are today.

If we are empty., how can we fill anyone else? The whole concept and truth here is grace. Gratefully receiving what is freely given. Then freely giving what we have freely received. That is Biblical Eph610.
The ONLY reason we love God is because He first loved us. That is the ONLY way we can love Him and then love others. Jesus is our living example of God's love for us. Without Him we cannot do it. We are unable to produce any fruits of the Spirit on our own.

If we are so busy "working" so hard that we are stressed and sick and panicked and fearful how is that pleasing and trusting God? How does that produce the fruits of the Spirit? What it actually does is produce fruits of the flesh. And there is no good in the fruits of the flesh when we are supposed to be producing fruits of the Spirit. Right? Right!!
:D

Many Christians like me have learned it's got to always be about Jesus or it doesn't work Eph610. That's the answer to your question about me. Without Him I can do nothing. The implications are because of Jesus we get everything. Without Him we have nothing.




 
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PinkDiamond

Guest
#30
I think Lynn approaches Christ with a childlike faith and has had personal experience in her life of being blessed. I don't think she is wrong in believing that God does want to bless his children. I also agree with all the points Eph610 has made in this thread. I think he is correct that this is not the proper interpretation or meaning of this verse if you read the passage in context. I don't think that rules out Lynn's overall outlook as there are other scriptures that would support her views that God wants to bless his children.

I don't think our inevitable suffering or persecution in this life is the result of God not desiring to bless us. We live in a fallen world, there is a devil that loves to oppress us, and our fellow unregenerate humans that can hurt us. All things being equal, God does promise to meet our needs and prosper our ways. I think of David who says, I have never seen the righteous forsaken or their children having to beg for bread. Depending on where we live, we may lose everything financially for the gospel's sake. We have to be strong soldiers and overcome this persecution. Yes, God takes care of us, but not all that long ago ISIS beheaded a whole community of Christians on a beach. For some of us, our life of service to God may cost us our very lives. I think a balanced view is best. We should look to him in faith to take care of us, but be prepared to give up everything joyfully for his name.
 
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eph610

Guest
#31
Wow. Are you that determined to be living a hard and difficult Christian life? Do you insist on making it difficult and joyless? When the Lord wants you to find strength in His grace? How can we be empty when we have the HolySpirit filling us?

We have those rivers of living water when we are on the receiving end. When we are thirsty we go to Jesus. We are told to be filled because we NEED to be filled. We cannot fill ourselves. To try will make you frustrated. As many Christians are today.

If we are empty., how can we fill anyone else? The whole concept and truth here is grace. Gratefully receiving what is freely given. Then freely giving what we have freely received. That is Biblical Eph610.
The ONLY reason we love God is because He first loved us. That is the ONLY way we can love Him and then love others. Jesus is our living example of God's love for us. Without Him we cannot do it. We are unable to produce any fruits of the Spirit on our own.

If we are so busy "working" so hard that we are stressed and sick and panicked and fearful how is that pleasing and trusting God? How does that produce the fruits of the Spirit? What it actually does is produce fruits of the flesh. And there is no good in the fruits of the flesh when we are supposed to be producing fruits of the Spirit. Right? Right!!
:D

Many Christians like me have learned it's got to always be about Jesus or it doesn't work Eph610. That's the answer to your question about me. Without Him I can do nothing. The implications are because of Jesus we get everything. Without Him we have nothing.




Lynn,
I have never once stated any of this and I have no clue why you are trying to characterize me as the type of believer you are...I will say that it is my experience that WOF believers must always elevate themselves above someone.....

You are mixing apples with oranges here and claiming I am someone and my walk is something it is not, because you must elevate yourself to avoid answering a direct question....

Do you ever give out what you receive from the Holy Ghost or is it always about you and what you get and that is all that matters?

You do not seem to either want to answer this or you cannot answer it and assuming things about my walk and what I believe prove it...

I walked through and applied what you shared years ago...we are all growing spiritually...don't get stuck in rut...keep growing
 
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heavenly_bound

Guest
#32
Yes, but there is no Scripture promising earthly riches to the church.
If scripture says that " the earth is the lord's and the fullness there of" and we are heirs of this world, why do you think that doesn't included riches!
do you really know why this world was created in the first place? it was created for sons of God! The problem is that we tend to allow things to posses us! Our Heavenly Father doesn't want things to posses us!!
 
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eph610

Guest
#33
If scripture says that " the earth is the lord's and the fullness there of" and we are heirs of this world, why do you think that doesn't included riches!
do you really know why this world was created in the first place? it was created for sons of God! The problem is that we tend to allow things to posses us! Our Heavenly Father doesn't want things to posses us!!
Have you completely thought out what you typed?

This earth will pass away and so will everything in it...
 
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PinkDiamond

Guest
#34
Have you completely thought out what you typed?

This earth will pass away and so will everything in it...
I think the real meaning behind the expression of being heirs of Christ is very different from how we think of an heir in secular terms. Heir to an estate definitely implies riches
But I read the verse in Romans: and if children than heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ if so be that we suffer with him that we may be also glorified together.

I think there is so much deeper and richer of a meaning here. He actually counts us worthy to partake in his suffering. We can experience the richness of his goodness even more when we share in a very small portion of what he endured. That communion and deep fellowship with Christ is worth far more than riches. Yes, the earth is God's and he will bless us, but he wants to give us something far more wonderful than mere earthly riches.

I do agree with one point heavenly- bound made about things owning us. It is definitely wise to always keep this in mind when discussing money. Riches are not evil. The love of money is
 
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ladylynn

Guest
#35

In the world we will have tribulation but we can be of good cheer because Jesus has already overcome the world. When I think of suffering it is in the sense of not being home yet and still being a "pilgrim" here on earth. This is not our real home yet.

There will be opposition here in this "foreign land" and there is the good fight of faith we are called to be in while here on earth. We still have to apply faith to see what is real and the world the flesh and the devil will always come at us while we are here on earth. This is the tribulation that will come.


But once we get to heaven and see Him face to face without the annoyance of the flesh none of those other tribulations will be there to deal with anymore. The tribulations we get don't come from God., they come from the world the flesh and the devil. Sickness is in the world, poverty is in the world., confusion is in the world, anger, malice, all kinds of sin are all in the world.

But not in heaven and not in our daily lives either as we apply faith to live the Christian life. Daily trusting His promises that He will never will leave us or forsake us. We have the Holy Spirit given as a seal and a gift and He works in and through us so we will not be defeated.

This video is about the battles we go through but also the victory in Christ that we have by faith. Our light affliction is nothing to be compared to the glory He has for us. But we also can walk in newness of life today while we wait. We have the Holy Spirit and we have not been left alone without means. We are heirs of the promises and many are for us to use here while going through the tribulations of life.

Remembering that Jesus has already overcome them for us. We fight from a place of victory. But the enemy tells us we are defeated. his lies are all he has and when we know the promises to counter those lies, we walk in Jesus victory.

This is so encouraging to me as a believer because I'm no longer left without help and resources like I was before I knew Jesus and His love. Too often people expect the very very worse case scenario in life because that is how we humans are., our world is not safe and wars and rumors of wars as well as people on earth who are Godless are in positions of power. Even so God has not left us without protection and defense. We are here but we are not subject to the world, the flesh and the devil anymore. Yet many believers live in defeat for not knowing that. We have His promises and they are all yes and amen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgS8vjLxkZo[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
 
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heavenly_bound

Guest
#36
Have you completely thought out what you typed?

This earth will pass away and so will everything in it...
so why did God create it if He deed not see then use of it? Can you imagine God creating something without any use of it.

Don't get me wrong please yes this world will pass away with all that is in it but it doesn't mean that we are not heirs of this cosmos while it last!
by the way the word of God says that healing , miracles, prophecy etc, will all pass away.Does this imply that they are not useful for now?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#37
We need the riches of this world SO THAT we can be a blessing to others - not to consume it on our own lusts. The purpose of being blessed is so that we can be a blessing to others. How do we feed people without resources? How do we care of those that can't take care of themselves?


I find it amazing the woman who gave a few pennies (her lifetime savings) was more blessed, than the rich pharisee.

We do not need the riches of the world to bless others. We need Gods love, We are blessed beyond hope with eternal life and the love of the father, People do not need money, they need grace.

Yes God gifts some people with the gift of wealth, and use them to bless many,, But I personally have been more blessed by people in poverty, who love and praise God in spite of their circimstances, Who can not give me a dime, Than many people who are middle class and above.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#38
Jesus never ever promised any material prosperity for His followers in this world... Indeed He told us we would be Hated and persecuted for His name sake.. He said::

John 16:KJV
33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Romans 8: KJV
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.


Also Ladylynn I quoted the part of your OP that i was responding to.. I was not responding to the entire post..
I agree, it is only part of the op that we have issue with.
 
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#39
[/SIZE]

I find it amazing the woman who gave a few pennies (her lifetime savings) was more blessed, than the rich pharisee.

We do not need the riches of the world to bless others. We need Gods love, We are blessed beyond hope with eternal life and the love of the father, People do not need money, they need grace.

Yes God gifts some people with the gift of wealth, and use them to bless many,, But I personally have been more blessed by people in poverty, who love and praise God in spite of their circimstances, Who can not give me a dime, Than many people who are middle class and above.
I agree with the basic premise of this however God has used people who had resources from Him to be a blessing to others. Like Joseph who was a rich disciple of Jesus had a tomb for Him.


The Good Samaritan had money to take care of the bills of the guy that was beat up. Being poor is not a blessing from God in any stretch of the imagination.

I do agree 100% that it is better to have nothing and have Jesus than to have everything that is in this world. But that is not the issue here. Money within itself is not evil - the love of it is.

I too have found that some rich people I have known were afraid of losing their money and that some poor people were happier.

I have also met some poor people that were as equally stinky as a rich person. So having resources or not having resources that I have seen have no bearing on the character of the people.

Riches because of our own flesh can be deceitful and trick us into having our faith and trust in them - now that is deadly and a definite grace nullifier.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#40
What did we inherit?


Eph 1:[SUP]3 [/SUP]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, [SUP]4 [/SUP]just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, [SUP]5 [/SUP]having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, [SUP]6 [/SUP]to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. [SUP]7 [/SUP]In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace [SUP]8 [/SUP]which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, [SUP]9 [/SUP]having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, [SUP]10 [/SUP]that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both[SUP][a][/SUP] which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. [SUP]11 [/SUP]In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, [SUP]12 [/SUP]that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who[SUP][b][/SUP] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

It is because of these spiritual truths that we can praise God in days of prosperity and praise God in days of poverty, That the things of this world become meaningless. Because they will pass away, That in sickness, or in health, Whether I am rich or I am poor, Because it is not the things of this world which makes me bessed. But the love and forgiveness of the father, the adoption into his family, The eternity we will spend with him, based on his work and not our own.

God has blessed us with every spiritual blessing he has, No amount of riches on earth can compete or compare with that. We have all we need, We do not need more.

If God blesses us with good health and pleasant living, then praise God. If God has blessed us with poor health and lck of funds to get all our "wants", then praise God, He has a reason, and all things work together for those who love God no matter what life has thrown to you. Trust God, have faith. no matter what,

This is what draws people to Christ. Not when you give them alot of money and things, When you suffer, yet still praise God.. I have seen more people come to Christ because of people who are suffering in health or lack of wealth yet praise God. then people who are well off and healthy,

It is easy to praise God when things are good.. The true believer and follower can praise God when things go bad.