Of These two Choices, What do you Believe is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth?
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Interesting that you seperate them as if they are not both pillars and foundations of the truth.
I know the scripture reference is that the church (local and visible) is the pillar and foundation of the truth. The local congregation/assembly of saved baptised believers.. covenanted together to carry out the Great Commission and Commandment.
But the bible could also be called the 'pillar and foundation of the truth'.. ..
That would not be a false statement. I just don know of a direct scripture that says this.
I would say the choice is not either/or here.. but that both the bible and the church are the pillar and foundation of the truth..
It's just that 'the church' is the direct reference from scripture
I know the scripture reference is that the church (local and visible) is the pillar and foundation of the truth. The local congregation/assembly of saved baptised believers.. covenanted together to carry out the Great Commission and Commandment.
But the bible could also be called the 'pillar and foundation of the truth'.. ..
That would not be a false statement. I just don know of a direct scripture that says this.
I would say the choice is not either/or here.. but that both the bible and the church are the pillar and foundation of the truth..
It's just that 'the church' is the direct reference from scripture
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Sorry, LOL neither. Jesus is the way the truth and the life.
The living word, who is Jesus wrote by His Spirit the written word we have. "When the perfect is come these things will be done away" is a phrase used by those without the Living Spirit of God, who want those gullible enough to believe it, that the bible is the 'perfect' and has come.
Jesus is the perfect, He is perfection and brings perfection, and when He returns then we will truly be known as we will truly know. Because then will this mortal body put on immortality and this corruptible body will be made incorruptible.
Jesus is the foundation stone and His gospel is the truth. His Church is the pillar that Holds everything else up, His Church, the body made up of many parts but as a whole it is the Bride of Christ, being made perfect (a continuing work) to be acceptable for when He returns. And also, sorry I expounded a bit there, 1 Timothy 3:15 tells us it is the Church, so why would you think to ask if it is the bible?
The living word, who is Jesus wrote by His Spirit the written word we have. "When the perfect is come these things will be done away" is a phrase used by those without the Living Spirit of God, who want those gullible enough to believe it, that the bible is the 'perfect' and has come.
Jesus is the perfect, He is perfection and brings perfection, and when He returns then we will truly be known as we will truly know. Because then will this mortal body put on immortality and this corruptible body will be made incorruptible.
Jesus is the foundation stone and His gospel is the truth. His Church is the pillar that Holds everything else up, His Church, the body made up of many parts but as a whole it is the Bride of Christ, being made perfect (a continuing work) to be acceptable for when He returns. And also, sorry I expounded a bit there, 1 Timothy 3:15 tells us it is the Church, so why would you think to ask if it is the bible?
Yeah, though i agree to the above post in terms of it not having to be a either or, i would have to say the Bible is the foundation and pillar of truth.
Gods Word is where we find who we are, what our purpose is, what the church means and is and who God is. Its in the bible where we find the truth about Jesus Christ revealed through the scriptures and the means of salvation. If we place Gods Word as the ultimate authority over or lives then even the church has to submit to it and its teachings.
Gods Word is where we find who we are, what our purpose is, what the church means and is and who God is. Its in the bible where we find the truth about Jesus Christ revealed through the scriptures and the means of salvation. If we place Gods Word as the ultimate authority over or lives then even the church has to submit to it and its teachings.
I would agree that Jesus is the Living Word but we cannot know Christ without the scriptures being revealed to us and the Spirit convicting us towards repentance. The bible points to Christ as supreme ruler over all but Christ had a high regard to sacred scripture that he directed its writings to help us grow in him.
Jesus loves me this i KNOW, for it is in the bible where it tells me so.
Jesus loves me this i KNOW, for it is in the bible where it tells me so.
Interesting that you seperate them as if they are not both pillars and foundations of the truth.
I know the scripture reference is that the church (local and visible) is the pillar and foundation of the truth. The local congregation/assembly of saved baptised believers.. covenanted together to carry out the Great Commission and Commandment.
But the bible could also be called the 'pillar and foundation of the truth'.. ..
That would not be a false statement. I just don know of a direct scripture that says this.
I would say the choice is not either/or here.. but that both the bible and the church are the pillar and foundation of the truth..
It's just that 'the church' is the direct reference from scripture
I know the scripture reference is that the church (local and visible) is the pillar and foundation of the truth. The local congregation/assembly of saved baptised believers.. covenanted together to carry out the Great Commission and Commandment.
But the bible could also be called the 'pillar and foundation of the truth'.. ..
That would not be a false statement. I just don know of a direct scripture that says this.
I would say the choice is not either/or here.. but that both the bible and the church are the pillar and foundation of the truth..
It's just that 'the church' is the direct reference from scripture
The church is the fruit. God gives the spirit life and growth.Without Him we can do nothing. Our living God is the pillar and foundation of His truth... not of ourselves. No other foundation can be laid.
Psalms 11:3 If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?
I agree with this, and to be honest reading the Bible isn't what saved me at all personally. I never cared to read it before I was saved anyway. That said I understand that there are people that were and are saved this way, so I am not trying to diminish the importance of the scripture at all, and agree that's how we get to know Him better, but personally I never even cared at all about scripture or the Bible until I was indwelt by His Spirit. So I have to say your comment falls in line with my experience of how it has worked.
Every man is saved in the same way called; "the hearing of the faith" (Christ's), as that which works in us to both will and do His good pleasure.
I would be careful as to how we hear God through His law book; the bible .It is not a book of the private interpretation as theories of men. It is His perfect law that does quicken our souls giving us simple ones His understanding.
Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Again we are not perfected, made complete by philosophical theories of men according to their private interpretations..
God’s word is law.
Those without the law written in the book of law, the Bible will perish without it. Those who sin in it will be judged by it.
Christians I believe walk or hear God by faith, the unseen spiritual and not by sight after our literal experiences as that seen.
Walking after our own religious experiences of our hearts caused the fall in the beginning. God who has no form did not want Adam and Eve to learn by experience but rather obey the voice of the unseen. They followed to voice of Satan unseen, as he put his words into the creature called a serpent saying; did God really say?
I would be careful as to how we hear God through His law book; the bible .It is not a book of the private interpretation as theories of men. It is His perfect law that does quicken our souls giving us simple ones His understanding.
Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Again we are not perfected, made complete by philosophical theories of men according to their private interpretations..
God’s word is law.
Those without the law written in the book of law, the Bible will perish without it. Those who sin in it will be judged by it.
Christians I believe walk or hear God by faith, the unseen spiritual and not by sight after our literal experiences as that seen.
Walking after our own religious experiences of our hearts caused the fall in the beginning. God who has no form did not want Adam and Eve to learn by experience but rather obey the voice of the unseen. They followed to voice of Satan unseen, as he put his words into the creature called a serpent saying; did God really say?
Who was even talking about "walking after our own experiences"? You read WAY too much into my comment, I simply shared how "I" was saved, and admittedly it was a "radical experience", was your rebirth not? I like to call mine my "road to Damascus experience", but just like I said before, I know that is different for each of us, I also qualified my view on scripture when I clearly wrote "I am not trying to diminish the importance of the scripture at all, and agree that's how we get to know Him better", like a quarter of the whole comment. It seems you are trying to pick apart my comment, find fault, and teach me when you are only making my words mean what you want them to. I'm sorry, but what you're correcting me on was never my point, nor do my words in the order I left them mean what you want them to.
By this response you clearly do not understand the nature of a false dichotomy. It does not indicate a conflation of the two ideas; rather, it indicates that the two are not, in reality, the only two valid options. One or both may not be valid, or there are other options available. Another possibility is that the two are not actually distinct/opposite, though this is not likely what Ariel82 is saying.